I'm looking to relocate in the next 6-12 months and am just looking for a brainstormed list of cities to consider. Requirements are reasonably large city for employment options, lots of climbing within 1-2 hours away, good length of season to take advantage of it.

Some off the top of my head...

Seattle (currently live here)
pros: 6+ respectable crags within 2 hours
cons: overcast/drizzly 220 days a year

Denver
pros: ?
cons: ?

Phoenix
pros: ?
cons: ?

Where else should I be considering?

Los Angeles

I am very biased, but so are 4 million other people who like sun and year round climbing.

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/...egory:Sport_Climbing

Today: 70 degrees, sunny
Tomorrow: sunny
And so on....

Con: traffic, cost of living can be high, so you have to look around, usually prices go down as you get further away from centralized LA and thus closer to the crags.

Pros: sick of the sun, go snowboarding - 2 hours away

I'm looking to relocate in the next 6-12 months and am just looking for a brainstormed list of cities to consider. Requirements are reasonably large city for employment options, lots of climbing within 1-2 hours away, good length of season to take advantage of it.

Some off the top of my head...

Seattle (currently live here)
pros: 6+ respectable crags within 2 hours
cons: overcast/drizzly 220 days a year

Denver
pros: ?
cons: ?

Phoenix
pros: ?
cons: ?

Where else should I be considering?

LA sucks for climbing. Not as bad as that other LA but definitely not one of the top contenders.

Los Angeles

I am very biased, but so are 4 million other people who like sun and year round climbing.

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/...egory:Sport_Climbing

Today: 70 degrees, sunny
Tomorrow: sunny
And so on....

Con: traffic, cost of living can be high, so you have to look around, usually prices go down as you get further away from centralized LA and thus closer to the crags.

Pros: sick of the sun, go snowboarding - 2 hours away

Snowboarding 2 hours away? Where? I've been to LA quite a few times and it takes 2 hours to move 15 miles from the airport......if you work a normal 40 hour week, good luck heading towards the mountians on Friday afternoon in the summers. Same goes for the Bay area. 4 hours to Yosemite, yeah right.

Why exactly does it suck for climbing? It puts you in a good central spot to reach Joshua Tree, Malibu Creek, Echo Cliffs, etc...

Care to offer any sort of rationale at all, or are you going to just be like everyone else on RC.com? I am open to hearing what you think, but as of this moment, I am not sure that you do.

To answer the OP, I've been to all 50 states and most of the big cities, and I've decided on Colorado Springs. Great weather, tons of sunshine. Garden of Gods and Red Rocks right in the city, mountains right outside it. Shelf Road, Boulder Canyon, Flatirons, RMNP, Rifle, Vedauwoo, 14er's, Black Canyon, all within a weekend trip distance. If I ever get bored of that I'll drive a couple more hours to the Tetons, S. Utah, or the like.

Snowboarding 2 hours away? Where? I've been to LA quite a few times and it takes 2 hours to move 15 miles from the airport......if you work a normal 40 hour week, good luck heading towards the mountians on Friday afternoon in the summers. Same goes for the Bay area. 4 hours to Yosemite, yeah right.

Sure, for starters you are not close to any decent climbing. You can make a nice day or weekend trip but you can't pop off after work and run up a few pitches on quality rock.

Hence the climbing in LA sucks. Now the climbing in San Bernardino County is pretty stellar but that's a rather large geographical area with only a few places most people would want to/could relocate to.

Add to that the city is pretty bland and the people are horrendous.

There do exist cities with better living experiences and better climbing, thus LA is not one of the top contenders for "best climbing cities".

"LA" is pretty big, and isn;t just the city of Los Angeles... I was born and raised in Long Beach (The LBC), and enjoyed year-round climbing, ocean, and skiing all just hours away. J-Tree in just over 2 hours, Tahquitz/Scuicide in about 2, Malibu in just over 2, Bipshop in less than 6, Yosemite/Tuolumne in less than 8, bouldering at The Cove on the beach in Newport in about 30-40 minutes, and a great myriad of other climbing areas, many less than 2 hours away, plus a GREAT music scene, and consistantly good weather.

Denver's actually really terrible, since the most well known crags have a lot of history, but not a lot of good climbing, at least compared to how long you have to wait in line to get on any given classic. The two best areas, Lumpy Ridge and the South Platte, are both at least an hour from any location in the metro area, but if you can find a home closer to either, you'd do pretty well there. Clear Creek Canyon is nice too, but again, crowded, and the rock is the color of asphalt, so the summers really suck.

Phoenix is the same way, although the summers are much MUCH hotter.

Maybe I'm spoiled with a 20 minute drive to my local crag, but I just cannot be happy in a place where more than an hour is the minimum to get to decent climbing, which is why I only lived in Denver for 8 months before moving back to Wyoming.

It seems like Salt Lake City might be all right, if you're willing to ignore the people there. I'm told SLC is the most medicated city in the US, and its just kind of weird.

Nice to hear you actually back up your opinion, or whatever your first post was.

Sorry to hear that you couldn't find your place in LA. You must have been here for some time though to get to know all 4 million people in order to write them off as horrendous. Unless you were generalizing, but I can't see someone as levelheaded and articulate as you capable of doing something so horrendous.

I think during my 3 hour break between classes tomorrow I will go hit Malibu Creek.

Anyway, this is my last post here.

Out west, the best two are SLC and Vegas. Denver 3rd I suppose.

After that, LA, SF and Phoenix probably roughly equal. I wouldn't say any of those are great climbing towns unless you are willing to drive a fair bit on the weekends, in which case there is tons of great stuff.

If you're looking for decent crags within a couple of hours and more sun, anywhere on the CO front range is pretty good. Your profile doesn't specify sport vs trad vs whatever so it's a little harder to specify.

Salt Lake City- loads of climbing and skiing right outside of town, if you're willing to drive a couple hours, there's tons more of each. The winter would suck if you dont do winter sports, though.

Realistically though, winter that prevents climbing is really only about 3 months long. If you're willing to drive the 5 hrs. to the St. George vicinity, you can cut that down to about a month+ or so.

Two posts since registering 6 years ago? Perhaps you didn't see that obvious search function on every forum page?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...rch_string=best+city

If you lived in a place like SLC, I think you'd be foolish not to at least dabble in some of the winter sports! World class.

It's hard to believe you're seriously equating Phoenix with Denver. Have you lived in Denver?

Snowboarding 2 hours away? Where? I've been to LA quite a few times and it takes 2 hours to move 15 miles from the airport......if you work a normal 40 hour week, good luck heading towards the mountians on Friday afternoon in the summers. Same goes for the Bay area. 4 hours to Yosemite, yeah right.

I have not heard it mentioned much on this site, but Nashville is actually a pretty good climbing city.

Pros: fairly quick access to all the great climbing in east Tennessee: Obed, Foster Falls, T-Wall, and many others. Close to King's Bluff. Not too far from Red River either. And Arkansas climbing is not too insanely far away for weekend trips. Good weather, long climbing season, can climb through the winter if you don't mind a bit of cold.

Cons: Only King's Bluff is within that 1-2 hour drive. From downtown Nashville it's about 45 minutes. East Tenn climbing is about 3 hours, RRG about 4.

I would suggest Chattanooga, but you said major city.

I suppose that if everyone is mentioning "passable" climbing cities that are big, such as Nashville, Phoenix, etc., we would have to include Atlanta, GA, as well. Within 2-3 hours of a lot of really good Southeastern Rock, local bouldering at Boatrock. I'm sure summers would suck, though.

I'm often surprised that Reno/Sparks isn't mentioned in conversations of this type. While the economy here isn't exactly booming, the greater metropolitan area has a population of about 500,00 along with the amenities/industry variety expected with a city of that size.

Reno is close to so much quality rock it would be silly to name it all. But a sampling....
Donner - 45 min
Eagle Lakes - 1.5 hr
Woodfords - 1.5 hr
Leap,Spires,Loaf - 2ish hr
Tuolumne - 3.5 hr
Rock Creek - 4 hr
Bishop/Gorge - 4ish hr

Granted, Reno is similar to SLC in that much of the rock is under snow for part of the year. But like SLC, these areas also offer world class winter sports opportunities. Plus, climbing can be found nearly year round within a 5 hour drive.

Ditto .. find a better decent sized place closer to Yosemite?

Have to have a fair amount of climbing in the 1-2 hours range max. I don't mind the occasional longer trip, but 3+ hours travel time is a long day or an entire weekend.

Out west, the best two are SLC and Vegas. Denver 3rd I suppose.

After that, LA, SF and Phoenix probably roughly equal. I wouldn't say any of those are great climbing towns unless you are willing to drive a fair bit on the weekends, in which case there is tons of great stuff.

Naw, I stayed in Broomfield for 6 years, learned to climb with Rossiter's Falcon guides tucked into my rucksak, graduated from high school there, come back every thanksgiving and christmas, and a litany of minor holidays, attendings Arapahoe Community College in Littleton, and worked at Rock'n & Jam'n for a few months. I've never lived inside Denver city limits though.

My point was that the classics-to-climbers ratio in both cities is about the same, its just that Denver has WAAAAY more mediocre to lousy climbing than Phoenix does, and the climbing season isn't year round in Phoenix. Denver is supposedly a great climber town mostly because you have access to a lot of different climbing, but in the 8 months I spent in the Denver area last year (which I mentioned in my previous post), the only major front range areas I didn't visit were the South Platte and the Golden Cliffs. The problem is everybody has this ridiculous hard on for Eldo and Boulder Canyon, and most of the climbing in either is bad. There are definitely some world-class routes in both, but the only time I didn't have to wait in line to do classic in Eldo was a tuesday last may when I got there at 6am. To do Gambit (which is way overrated, by the way).

Just curious, but what exactly makes Nashville only "passable?"

Okay, your creds are way better than mine on the whole knowing the Denver scene, so I should just shut up now I guess.

The only thing I'd add is that IME, Eldo really is pretty mediocre up through 5.9. Once you get into the mid 5.10 range and up though, wow. I've only started to scratch the surface, but, for example, in one small area you have Climb Of The Century, Center Route, Handcrack, Pony Express, Rincon, just to name a few. All absolutely five star routes.

So there's a lot of fantastic climbing in Eldo. Some of it just comes with a kinda steep entrance exam.

I do agree with you though that Boulder Canyon is overrated.

GO

I'm often surprised that Reno/Sparks isn't mentioned in conversations of this type. While the economy here isn't exactly booming, the greater metropolitan area has a population of about 500,00 along with the amenities/industry variety expected with a city of that size.

Reno is close to so much quality rock it would be silly to name it all. But a sampling....
Donner - 45 min
Eagle Lakes - 1.5 hr
Woodfords - 1.5 hr
Leap,Spires,Loaf - 2ish hr
Tuolumne - 3.5 hr
Rock Creek - 4 hr
Bishop/Gorge - 4ish hr

Granted, Reno is similar to SLC in that much of the rock is under snow for part of the year. But like SLC, these areas also offer world class winter sports opportunities. Plus, climbing can be found nearly year round within a 5 hour drive.

You specifically asked if I had lived in Denver, so you kind of set yourself up for that one.

All of this blathering aside, I think I over-reached quite a bit when I said it was terrible. To my mind, a good city for climbers requires at least one road-trip-worthy (that is, nation- or world-class) destination that a person could conceivably hit after work, and enough decent crags within similar range that crowds can be avoided. And Denver just doesn't have any crags that are worth road tripping for.

Just curious, but what exactly makes Nashville only "passable?"

Atlanta does, I think, have the biggest route climbing gym in the country.

If you are a solid 5.10- climber who can get up 5.11 on a good day (which really isn't saying that much) I would put Eldo up against anything in the immediate Salt Lake area. It's certainly as good or better than Little or Big Cottonwood.

And while I know that this place will not compare with places out west, what are some opinions on Fayetteville/Charleston area in WV? Not my first choice, but it is closer to my family and I have been considering adding it to my list of possibilities.

What about American Fork?

I haven't climbed there. I'm not sure of your question. Are you saying it changes the equation and makes the Salt Lake area more of a world-class destination?

Charleston (the only thing I would really call a city in WV) would be pretty nice for climbing. The NRG is definitely a destination crag, and it's about an hour away (in other words, about like downtown Denver to Eldo); definitely do-able for day trips. RRG is less than 3 hrs., all the great NC crags are 3-4 hours.

The only thing Charleston has lacking is a local crag suitable for after-work jaunts. A friend of mine is even in the process of building the city's first climbing gym there.

I haven't climbed there. I'm not sure of your question. Are you saying it changes the equation and makes the Salt Lake area more of a world-class destination?

GO

Local to SLC:
Big CC
Little CC
American Fork
Various summer alpine routes of various lengths between 7K' - 11K' elevation

Within 2 hrs:
High Uintas
Maple Canyon
Ibex
Joe's Valley
Logan Canyon

Within 3 - 4 hrs:
Moab
City of Rocks & Castle Rock
Indian Creek
Some new areas in eastern NV
Areas outside Beaver and Cedar City

Within 5-6 hrs:
Zion
Tetons
St. George
Red Rocks NV
Virgin River Gorge
Areas in the Arizona Strip
Telluride/Ophir and environs
Black Canyon
Additional Idaho areas

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not suggesting that Denver is a better city to live in as a climber than Salt Lake. On the contrary, IMO, Salt Lake is the clear winner over any other major city.

I was referring to the specific argument being made about Denver not having any world-class climbing in its back yard. I'm not going to rehash that whole argument though.

GO

SALT LAKE CITY:
Local: Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons
Day Trip: Maple Canyon*, Uintas, American Fork Canyon
Weekend: City of Rocks*, Tetons*, Ibex, Joe's Valley, Red Rocks*, Indian Creek*, Zion*

NEW YORK CITY:
Local: Rat Rock!
Day Trip: Gunks*
Weekend: Seneca, Rumney, Cathedral

LAS VEGAS, NV
Local: Red Rocks*
Day Trip: Virgin River Gorge*, Mt. Charleston
Weekend: Jtree*, Zion*

More like:

Local: Red Rock, Mt. Charleston (its only about 40mins away), Keyhole Canyon (30mins).
Day Trip: VRG, St. George, Zion, JTree, Arrow Canyon, Paradise Forks.
Weekend: Taquhitz, LA Area in general, Bishop, Yosemite, Tuolomne, Needles, Sierra in general, SLC area, Moab, IC, Tucson area, Flagstaff area.

its kind of ridiculous the amount of rock that is floating around within 8hrs of vegas.

DENVER, CO
Local: ?
Day Trip: shit-ton of stuff, none gets a star though
Weekend: Moab/Indian Creek*, Rifle*, Vedauvoo*, Black Canyon*

And while I know that this place will not compare with places out west, what are some opinions on Fayetteville/Charleston area in WV? Not my first choice, but it is closer to my family and I have been considering adding it to my list of possibilities.

Ok, I'm putting together a list of decent climbing cities that are core metropolitan areas (so, no Flagstaff or Chattanooga, though those places would take the gold medal no problem).

Using the criteria of three tiers of climbing: LOCAL (within or right outside city limits, less than an hour away), DAY TRIP (within 3 hours drive), and WEEKEND (within 6-8 hours). I've starred areas I think are nationally renowned destinations.

No particular order. Feel free to criticize/add to it.

LAS VEGAS, NV
Local: Red Rocks*
Day Trip: Virgin River Gorge*, Mt. Charleston
Weekend: Jtree*, Zion*

LOS ANGELES, CA (though from what I've heard about drive time, some of the local areas might not work that well)
Local: Malibu Creek, Tick Rock, Stony Point
Day Trip: Taquitz/Suicide, Jtree*,
Weekend: Yosemite*, Needles*

SEATTLE, WA
Local: -
Day Trip: Index, Leavenworth, Vantage
Weekend: Squamish*, Smith Rock*

RENO, NV
Local:-
Day Trip: Lover's Leap, Donner
Weekend: Bishop*, Yosemite*

SALT LAKE CITY:
Local: Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons
Day Trip: Maple Canyon*, Uintas, American Fork Canyon
Weekend: City of Rocks*, Tetons*, Ibex, Joe's Valley, Red Rocks*, Indian Creek*, Zion*

DENVER, CO
Local: ?
Day Trip: shit-ton of stuff, none gets a star though
Weekend: Moab/Indian Creek*, Rifle*, Vedauvoo*, Black Canyon*

ALBUQUERQUE, NM
Local: Sandias?
Day Trip: Enchanted Tower
Weekend: Hueco Tanks*, Shelf Road, Indian Creek*

PHOENIX, AZ:
Local: -
Day Trip: Queen Creek, Homestead, Cochise Stronghold, Paradise Forks, Sedona, Priest Draw
Weekend: Red Rocks*, Jtree*, Hueco*, Indian Creek*

AUSTIN, TX:
Local: Green Belt, McKinney Falls, many others
Day Trip: Reimer's Ranch, Enchanted Rock
Weekend: Potrero Chico*, Wichitas, Continental Ranch

NASHVILLE, TN:
Local: -
Day Trip: T-wall*, Obed
Weekend: RRG*, NRG*, HP40, various NC crags

CHARLESTON, WV:
Local: -
Day Trip: New River Gorge*
Weekend: RRG*, NC, Seneca, Coopers Rock, T-wall*, HP40

ATLANTA, GA:
Local: Boatrock
Day Trip: T-wall*, Rocktown
Weekend: HP40, RRG*, NRG*, NC

WASHINGTON DC:
local: -
day trip: Carderock, Old Rag
Weekend: NRG*, NC, Seneca

CINCINATTI, OH
local: -
Day Trip: RRG*
Weekend: NRG*, T-wall*, NC, Obed

NEW YORK CITY:
Local: Rat Rock!
Day Trip: Gunks*
Weekend: Seneca, Rumney, Cathedral

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head, time to get off the computer. Someone should make a spreadsheet of these.

What about Chicago, Boston, Boise, Madison, Twin Cities?

Nice list. Since you asked about our horrible situation, here is the Chicago lowdown:

CHICAGO, IL
Local: -
Day Trip: -
Weekend: Devil's Lake (3.5 hrs), Governor Dodge (3.5 hrs), RRG* (7 hrs), So. IL crags (7 hrs).

That is based on your definition of "weekend" vs. "day-trip," although a lot of Chicago locals are desperate enough to do day trips to the Wisconsin crags. And all of these drive times assume you have successfully avoided traffic getting out of the city.

Short version: Climbers should never, ever, move to Chicago if they can avoid it.

Ok, I'm putting together a list of decent climbing cities that are core metropolitan areas (so, no Flagstaff or Chattanooga, though those places would take the gold medal no problem).

Using the criteria of three tiers of climbing: LOCAL (within or right outside city limits, less than an hour away), DAY TRIP (within 3 hours drive), and WEEKEND (within 6-8 hours). I've starred areas I think are nationally renowned destinations.

No particular order. Feel free to criticize/add to it.

LAS VEGAS, NV
Local: Red Rocks*
Day Trip: Virgin River Gorge*, Mt. Charleston
Weekend: Jtree*, Zion*

LOS ANGELES, CA (though from what I've heard about drive time, some of the local areas might not work that well)
Local: Malibu Creek, Tick Rock, Stony Point
Day Trip: Taquitz/Suicide, Jtree*,
Weekend: Yosemite*, Needles*

SEATTLE, WA
Local: -
Day Trip: Index, Leavenworth, Vantage
Weekend: Squamish*, Smith Rock*

RENO, NV
Local:-
Day Trip: Lover's Leap, Donner
Weekend: Bishop*, Yosemite*

SALT LAKE CITY:
Local: Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons
Day Trip: Maple Canyon*, Uintas, American Fork Canyon
Weekend: City of Rocks*, Tetons*, Ibex, Joe's Valley, Red Rocks*, Indian Creek*, Zion*

DENVER, CO
Local: ?
Day Trip: shit-ton of stuff, none gets a star though
Weekend: Moab/Indian Creek*, Rifle*, Vedauvoo*, Black Canyon*

ALBUQUERQUE, NM
Local: Sandias?
Day Trip: Enchanted Tower
Weekend: Hueco Tanks*, Shelf Road, Indian Creek*

PHOENIX, AZ:
Local: -
Day Trip: Queen Creek, Homestead, Cochise Stronghold, Paradise Forks, Sedona, Priest Draw
Weekend: Red Rocks*, Jtree*, Hueco*, Indian Creek*

AUSTIN, TX:
Local: Green Belt, McKinney Falls, many others
Day Trip: Reimer's Ranch, Enchanted Rock
Weekend: Potrero Chico*, Wichitas, Continental Ranch

NASHVILLE, TN:
Local: -
Day Trip: T-wall*, Obed
Weekend: RRG*, NRG*, HP40, various NC crags

CHARLESTON, WV:
Local: -
Day Trip: New River Gorge*
Weekend: RRG*, NC, Seneca, Coopers Rock, T-wall*, HP40

ATLANTA, GA:
Local: Boatrock
Day Trip: T-wall*, Rocktown
Weekend: HP40, RRG*, NRG*, NC

WASHINGTON DC:
local: -
day trip: Carderock, Old Rag
Weekend: NRG*, NC, Seneca

CINCINATTI, OH
local: -
Day Trip: RRG*
Weekend: NRG*, T-wall*, NC, Obed

NEW YORK CITY:
Local: Rat Rock!
Day Trip: Gunks*
Weekend: Seneca, Rumney, Cathedral

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head, time to get off the computer. Someone should make a spreadsheet of these.

What about Chicago, Boston, Boise, Madison, Twin Cities?

DENVER, CO
Local: ?
Day Trip: shit-ton of stuff, none gets a star though
Weekend: Moab/Indian Creek*, Rifle*, Vedauvoo*, Black Canyon*

Ok, I'm putting together a list of decent climbing cities that are core metropolitan areas (so, no Flagstaff or Chattanooga, though those places would take the gold medal no problem).

Using the criteria of three tiers of climbing: LOCAL (within or right outside city limits, less than an hour away), DAY TRIP (within 3 hours drive), and WEEKEND (within 6-8 hours). I've starred areas I think are nationally renowned destinations.

No particular order. Feel free to criticize/add to it.

RENO, NV
Local:-
Day Trip: Lover's Leap, Donner
Weekend: Bishop*, Yosemite*

I'll just fill in LA. I removed Tick Rock from the list, because if that goes on, then a whole bunch of random crap needs to be added.

LOS ANGELES, CA (though from what I've heard about drive time, some of the local areas might not work that well)
Local: Malibu Creek, Stoney Point ("local" classification depends on where in LA you are and what time you get off of work)
Day Trip: Taquitz/Suicide, Jtree*, Woodson, various mediocre sport climbing (Quarry, Big Bear, NJC, Echo), Black Mountain/Tramway (might be a * for the boulderers)
Weekend: Yosemite*, Needles*, Bishop and other eastside destinations*, High Sierra*, Tuolumne*, Red Rocks*, Tahoe*

Vedauwoo is less than 2 hours from Denver, hence day trip. Rifle is within your 3 hour limit too (barely). Snowy Range is near Vedauwoo and has a 1000 foot face and a lot of other climbing. Guess it depends on what you want to do, but I think Denver is a lot better than people are giving it credit for.

SEATTLE, WA
Local: -
Day Trip: Index, Leavenworth, Vantage
Weekend: Squamish*, Smith Rock*

I'll fill in Boston but what's the more important criterion for "local" - <1hr. or within state limits?

Yeah, I'm seeing that the classification of something as "local" is a bit hazy. When I think "local," I think of places like Logan Canyon in Northern Utah, Priest's Draw or The Pit in Flagstaff, or the Barton Creek Greenbelt in Austin. All of these places are decent half-day destinations, or quick after-work options.

But, the bigger a city gets, the tougher it can be to have "after work" destinations. As we've seen, there are quite a few places within the greater Los Angeles area that could still take tow hours for "locals" to get to. If you live on the Southwest side of Vegas, Red Rocks might not be an after work option for you. And I still don't consider Boulder Canyon or Eldo to be "local" destinations for Denverites. For Boulderites, yes.

If we narrow down "world class" destinations within an hour of a major city, this is the short list:

El Paso
NYC
Las Vegas
Lexington
... and maybe Charleston and Chattanooga

It should definitely be travel time based, and not state limits. Unlike Massachusetts, I can drive 5 hrs and still easily be within Utah.

Why don't you consider Eldo or Boulder Canyon to be local for Denver?

Why don't you consider Eldo or Boulder Canyon to be local for Denver? I can get to either of those places in a half hour from my house in downtown Denver, and Denverites climb there after work all the time. Castlewood Canyon is another fun local option for Denver. Kind of a very poor man's version of Maple Canyon.

When I lived in Highlands Ranch, trying to get to Eldo between 3 and 6pm was a 2 hour drive. Not really "after work". On the other hand, the drive to my job (Rock'n & Jam'n) took about an hour to the north location, or 20 minutes for the south location, during the same period.

Well, Highlands Ranch isn't Denver, nor does it come anywhere close to even bordering Denver. Cherry picking driving times from the most inconvenient suburb is a bit silly.