I am aware that it is possible to backup a belayer using an ATC if you have a third person to anchor in and tend a prussik attached to the brake end and a biner on their belay loop. This will prevent decking if the belayer were to drop the rope (due to rope burn or being hit by rockfall).

Is there an method of backing up an ATC belayer without a third person, using either knot or mechanical means?

Currently we are just top roping but I am twice my girlfriend's weight (whew! =P) and worry about her ability to catch a fall, esp a lead fall. I have her using a GRIGRI2 now but if I were to get into leading that won't be very efficient.

I am aware that it is possible to backup a belayer using an ATC if you have a third person to anchor in and tend a prussik attached to the brake end and a biner on their belay loop. This will prevent decking if the belayer were to drop the rope (due to rope burn or being hit by rockfall).

Is there an method of backing up an ATC belayer without a third person, using either knot or mechanical means?

Currently we are just top roping but I am twice my girlfriend's weight (whew! =P) and worry about her ability to catch a fall, esp a lead fall. I have her using a GRIGRI2 now but if I were to get into leading that won't be very efficient.

CF?

Facepalm!

Why do you think using a gri-gri2 would not be "very efficient" when you get into leading? What do you think that device is designed for-- toproping only?

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I am aware that it is possible to backup a belayer using an ATC if you have a third person to anchor in and tend a prussik attached to the brake end and a biner on their belay loop.

I'm trying to picture this and can't. Can someone describe this setup more accurately?

My confusion could just be a lack of experience with / understand of the ATC. My understanding is that in a fall approaching factor 2, the ATC will let rope though even with the belayer in brake position, potentially burning the belayer's brake hand and causing them to drop the rope. Is this incorrect?

I have only used the ATC in a top rope situation and I felt that it was much easier to take up slack and lower a climber than the GRIGRI1 but did not experience anything greater than maybe a 2-3KN fall which was very easy to hold.

I don't expect a factor 2. I'd like my belay to be able to hold a factor 2.

I am aware that it is possible to backup a belayer using an ATC if you have a third person to anchor in and tend a prussik attached to the brake end and a biner on their belay loop.

This will prevent decking if the belayer were to drop the rope (due to rope burn or being hit by rockfall).

Is there an method of backing up an ATC belayer without a third person, using either knot or mechanical means?

Currently we are just top roping but I am twice my girlfriend's weight (whew! =P) and worry about her ability to catch a fall, esp a lead fall. I have her using a GRIGRI2 now but if I were to get into leading that won't be very efficient.

This makes no sense from beginning to end. I'm really hoping that English isn't your first language, and you've just completely failed to get your ideas across. Because otherwise you seem to misunderstand nearly everything in the belay process.


1 - If you wish to back up a belayer, the above would be a horrible way to do it.

2 - After a belayer has properly learned and demonstrated the ability to belay, no backup belayer should be involved.

3 - An incompetent belayer may drop you with any device, whether it is auto-locking or not.


1 - The belayer should always be aware of the potential danger of rockfall. Some areas have a very low likelihood of rockfall, others a very high likelihood. The belayer should stand out of the way, and should wear a helmet if necessary. Mitigation is 99.9% of the solution, autolocking belay devices are a 0.1% solution to rockfall, at best.

2 - Why the concern about the belayer's hand getting burned? I've seen this happen only twice, and in both cases the rope burn was caused by the belayer dropping the climber, not the other way around. In each case, the belayer was using a poor technique, and the climber fell just at the weak point of the belayer's technique.


Yes, but if you ever have a reason to do so, you've already screwed something else up.


If you weigh twice what your belayer does, anchoring her with a long tether might work well. A grigri might also work well. I don't understand the bit about the grigri being inefficient at all.

GO

You don't have to worry about factor two fall in a single pitch climb, even when leading the climb. On toprope, you are not even coming close to 0.5, let alone factor 2.

Really, it is good that you are thinking about safety, it is. But you are worried about things that are not applicable to your situation. And while you are thinking of ways to mitigate something that is not going to happen, you are likely not paying enough attention to the things that you are likely to encounter.

Please, don't mess up with the prussic backup of the ATC. With a new belayer it is more likely to impede the learning of proper belay stroke than it is likely to increase your safety.

Read the instructions for your gri-gri, watch PETZL's official video of how to lead belay with a gri-gri, and have someone experienced show you and observe you doing it. Have a 3rd person backup, by all means, and practice-practice-practice.

Currently we are just top roping but I am twice my girlfriend's weight (whew! =P) and worry about her ability to catch a fall, esp a lead fall. I have her using a GRIGRI2 now but if I were to get into leading that won't be very efficient.

In hopes of getting you a better more informed response, I would humbly suggest that you clarify your question and maybe break each part down into more readily and easily understood portions so that people might digest it better and be able to offer more concise advice.

Your information is somewhat conflicting. In the quote above, you say that you're top-roping but you're worried about her catching a lead fall. You then question the efficiency of a device for leading when that's what the device was designed for.

I'll tell you like someone told me. If you don't have your shit wired tight, and come in these forums with blanket statements that are conflicting and incorrect, you're gonna get hammered no matter what your original intentions were, or whether or not you truly deserve it. That's just the way it is.

Now, from my experience, if you're just top-roping, you can anchor your woman in somehow, and that should help. Even so, she needs to be aware of the forces that will be put on her in a fall. If she's half your weight, she probably will leave the ground- even in a top rope fall. She should be prepared for this when it happens.

You're on the right track with being concerned about safety and asking questions. You just seem a little misinformed. If you get the majority of your info from other climbers, especially ones that are relatively new to the sport, you're going to be misled. Do some research yourself from as many different credible sources as possible to gain a better understanding of the processes and techniques involved in SAFELY enjoying your desired discipline of climbing. You'll be glad you did, plus, it'll keep you from getting flogged by anti-noob veteran climbers that don't have much patience for misinformation. That's my two cents. Hope it helps.

English is my first language.

You should use better grammar when criticizing my English.

Thanks for the advice.

I see your point. I know the difference between a top roped and a lead fall. Currently, I am top roping. Ultimately, I intend to move on to sport leading and then trad leading multiple pitches. If that was not clear from my original post, it is now.

Accidents can happen top roping as well. That is why I am seeking out information from those more experienced than me. I do not consider it a replacement for research.

Butt-hurt know it all ass clowns are not new to me. They are on every forum. Frequently, they are Google searching everything typed in order to appear brilliant. Everyone is fooled....

Forgive the child like drawing skills.....

Red rope is the prussik loop.

[image]http://i53.tinypic.com/102r1pv.jpg[/image]

So then there is no way to backup an ATC belayer without a third, correct?