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hroldan
Mar 13, 2003, 5:42 AM
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I need advices to buy a wireless drill to open routes in a nice place i just found.
I need technical data to find my way buying it locally, so i will go for one that matches the recomended features. No gasoline drill advices please.
I've found so far two that seem good, I'm thinking about one that reaches 1,250 RPM, 18V battery.
1,250 RPM is good enough??? I have asked before about drills but the answers have been bad, almost the same: "you need a drill with super extra strength, ultra atomic bla bla" silly stuff and silly advices that got me nowhere.
I was told that even my electrical drill wasn't good enough (2250 RPM) but i tried in several types of stone and it works well.
Any advices??? brands?? remember DeWalt, Power Tools, Power Glide and Bosh i think. PLEASE, no lines like "bolting is dangerous, you need to know how to..."
I think this is the right place to reach nice climbers who know about this and will help
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flying_dutchman
Mar 13, 2003, 5:58 AM
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dewalt drills are expensive, get like porter cable or bosch if you want to save some money. How much power do you really need cause 18V drills are pretty heavy to haul? You might be able to get away with less.
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danskiz
Mar 13, 2003, 6:21 AM
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Hand drills are cheap. :lol:
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onelung
Mar 13, 2003, 6:30 AM
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I would be a better climber if bolts were not everywhere. I do think there are enough bolts up and the rest of the planet should be trad.
That's My humble opinion. Buy some cams with the cash.
Climb On,
Bill
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bigdan
Mar 13, 2003, 6:50 AM
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If it's not worth the time to spend drilling by hand, it's not worth placing the bolt. Just my opinion...
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hroldan
Mar 13, 2003, 2:33 PM
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In reply to: flying_dutchman How much power do you really need cause 18V drills are pretty heavy to haul? You might be able to get away with less.
Yes, i know is kinda heavy, i found another drill also with 1250 RPM but 7V and 12 V, would that be enough power??
I mean, what is the minimum i need to bolt? (in RPM or other tech stuff)
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seeking8a
Mar 13, 2003, 3:21 PM
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I am confused. Are you looking to put up routes in rock or work on your house? The only type of drill I have ever seen for putting up routes is a hammer drill which has a certain amount of blows per minute (bpm) in addition to revolutions per minute (rpm). The blows are what chip away at the rock, same reason why people use a hammer with a hand drill. A drill that only spins will not work on rock. In particular rotary hammer drills are stronger. I got a Bosch Annihilator 24V 3A battery on Ebay for $300, its the best drill for bolting.
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pywiak
Mar 13, 2003, 3:35 PM
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I'm partial to the Hilti (I have a TE-10A), which uses a 36V battery pack. This packs the punch you need for drilling holes in stone. I wouldn't worry so much about the RPM - it's not the twist but the hammer action that drives the hole. You may find an 18V unit lacks the power and/or endurance to drill many holes (unless you've got multiple spare batteries).
The downside is price, but if you're serious about it and ready to graduate from a hand drill, invest in a professional grade tool. Try before you buy - haul a stone to your local dealer's shop, use a demo model (bring your own bit), start with a full charge on the battery, then drain it punching holes in your practice rock. This will give you some idea of real world capabilities of the models you're interested in.
If you're just getting started setting bolted routes, save your money and get a hand-drilling rig. Yes, it's a lot more work than using a power tool, but it's great physical conditioning, will quickly teach you appropriate bolting techniques (you won't be wasting too many holes in the wrong places), will develop your sense of craftsmanship, and will teach you that setting bolted routes is a gift to the community, not a selfish ego stroke for fame and glory. After you've set a dozen routes by hand, then think about investing in a power tool. Keep the hand drill as a backup for when your batteries go dead.
Invest in quality bolt hardware (no home-grown hangers please), and camoflauge everything. Listen politely to feedback from your peers in your community, keep a humble attitude, and be prepared to defend your work.
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hroldan
Mar 13, 2003, 3:50 PM
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pywiak:
nice advices man thanks!
Yes, I was thinking about the benefit of doing it all by hand, the downside is the amount of time available, not much by the way so i would have to climb less and develope some routes.
I tried by hand in some stones i have (some are very hard by the way) and it works, i mean even without hammering but it will take forever.
I'll try with a hand drill this weekend.
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paintinhaler
Mar 13, 2003, 4:30 PM
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I agree bigdan,
If it's not worth the time to spend drilling by hand, it's not worth placing the bolt. Just my opinion... Before you go off buying one you need to get down with someone that knows what they are doing and have done it for a long long time. Most of bolting is not getting the bolt in, its getting it in the right place. You have climbed routes before and been like who the fuk was that stupid to put a bolt there? Well you dont want to be the person who did it, you will feel stupid for the rest of your life. So before you go off drillin think about your placement. Climb it on top rope and mark the area with chalk that would be a good spot for a bolt. later, wEs
P.S. be careful when placeing a hand drilled bolt. Becareful when you start the hole, but once you get it started it dosent take to long. Just tap,turn,tap,turn...good luck
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climbersam
Mar 13, 2003, 4:50 PM
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I bought a Hilti TE-6A 36 volt hammerdrill on Ebay, and it beats other drills I've tried, such as 24V Dewalt, hands down-
Instead of a direct electric motor/gear drive, the Hilti electric motor powers a pneumatic pump/motor, which drives the drill. Much smoother action, less wear and tear, and a lot more holes drilled on a charge than the dewalt. For $1000 retail its way high, but I only paid $350.
Buy the red beast, get a hilti!
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threejameses
Mar 13, 2003, 4:57 PM
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In reply to: If it's not worth the time to spend drilling by hand, it's not worth placing the bolt.
What?! Can any of those voting for "manual-drilling-only" tell me why you vote that way? Is there some practical bennefit to drilling by hand? Is it morally superior to drill a hole by hand? Is it easier on the rock to drill a hole by hand?
Do you also say "if it isnt worth walking to, it isnt worth climbing!" ?
Imagine if the construction crew on your dream home said "if it isnt worth hammering / sawing / planing by hand, it isnt worth doing!" (jeez, they are already running 7 months behind schedule! lol)
I dont mean to be an ass, but what is the justification for the opinion that only hand-drilled bolts are "worth bolting"?
Note, this isnt a flame, but a serious question to those of you with strong opinions on the matter...
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cloudbreak
Mar 13, 2003, 5:22 PM
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Let's see, the title of this thread is "advices to buy a drill for bolting", so why all the "just my 2 cent" remarks about "trad". To each their own. Quit sounding like a bunch of whiny little high schoolers with closed minds!
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pywiak
Mar 13, 2003, 6:21 PM
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Another two cents worth:
Power tools are MUCH more efficient for drilling holes in stone, and the holes are more uniform, making for better placements.
My advocacy of a hand drill is as a means to gain hard-won lessons and experience in route setting. The lessons stick better when greater effort is involved. You decide when you're ready to graduate to power tools. The hand drill remains useful for anchor setting in those areas where power tools are prohibited.
Hooking up with a good mentor is always good advice. So is developing a broad base of experience in multiple expressions of the sport (bouldering, multipitch gear routes, bolted sportclimbs). Most climbers are neither fit for nor interested in the creative act of route setting, but they appreciate and approve of those who do it right.
Getting involved with fixed anchor maintenance and replacement at your local crags is another good way to gain experience and judgement.
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threejameses
Mar 13, 2003, 6:29 PM
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Great reply PYWIAK. I should have read your original post more thoroughly :oops:
Climb on!
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bigdan
Mar 13, 2003, 6:50 PM
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threejameses-
obviously, some people can be trusted with a power drill, to use it responsibility, to not place way too many bolts. the problem is this: if you have to drill by hand, it takes awhile, 20-40 minutes depending on the rock. if it takes time to drill, folks are less likely to drill too many bolts on a route, or add chicken bolts to existing routes, etc. it makes you stop and make sure the bolt is really necessary. that's the reasoning.
i realize that if you aren't concerned with bolt impact, maybe sport climbers, then you'd disagree.
also, power drilled bolts aren't better bolts than hand placed ones. when done by hand by someone who knows what they're doing, the hole is perfect. because the power drill is faster, the vibration can shatter the rock a bit and end up causing a bigger hole. the power can also simply weaken the rock around the hole. the best, strongest bolts are expertly placed hand drilled bolts.
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hroldan
Mar 13, 2003, 8:03 PM
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thanks all for the input but, is 1,250 rpm enough?? i mean, going back to the drill thing... :roll:
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oneballjay
Mar 13, 2003, 8:49 PM
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get a rotrary hammer
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john1987
Mar 13, 2003, 9:17 PM
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In reply to: I agree bigdan, So before you go off drillin think about your placement. Climb it on top rope and mark the area with chalk that would be a good spot for a bolt. later, wEs
If you can toprope it why the hell would you bolt it wtf? What is so wrong with toproping?
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hroldan
Mar 13, 2003, 9:35 PM
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Placing a top rope at the place i'm talking about is a BIG pain..., trust me, I've been there. The access to the place is hard enough, i'll rather lead than set a top rope and then clean.
But of course i'll mark the spots and will avoid over-bolting.
Top rope is ok, but for me, is not as fun as red pointing.
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apollodorus
Mar 13, 2003, 10:20 PM
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Almost all rotary hammers (rota-hammers, hammer drills) turn at a slow speed. These drills pound the bit at the same time. A regular drill will NOT work. And you need to have some leverage to push the bit into the rock as it hammers away.
Anything below 12v is great for one hole. Get a 12v or better drill.
The best setup can be found on the Fish website. It involves modifying a 12v drill with cables and a big, honkin' battery, like a gel motorcycle battery. You leave the battery with your belayer, or put it into a backpack. Either way, you aren't holding a heavy battery as you drill. The beta is in the Catalog Pages, under Bolting Stuff:
www.fishproducts.com
The cheaper hammer drills, including the no-name Chinese ones, will be fine for a hundred holes. No concrete contractor is going to use them, because 100 holes per week (or day) is nothing to them. But, you can get four or five of the Chinese drills for the price of one Hilti or DeWalt. Try looking on eBay. I've seen 12v hammer drills that take standard SDS bits for $40.00.
And besides, you'll need some extra $$$ to buy the gel battery for your backpack rig.
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apollodorus
Mar 13, 2003, 11:35 PM
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The granite near where I live must be hard stuff, then. I once tried to use a regular masonry bit in a drill press, and it hardly drilled at all. It took fifteen or twenty minutes to get a 3/16" hole one inch deep.
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therealdeal
Mar 14, 2003, 3:19 AM
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Either Hilti or Bosch--these are the only way to go. The biggest bonus with the more modern drills and batteries is that they weigh less and the batteries last longer and don't need to be run all the way down prior to recieving a new charge.
I've used a friends Hilti, TE 10 A, I think and it was good. I own an Annihilator and it seems to drill more holes per charge, like 20 - 22 in limestone.
Get a good drill and let 'er rip, it aint brain surgery to put a good sport route!
Good Luck
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realitycheck
Mar 14, 2003, 3:55 AM
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hroldan,
You've gotten some good advice...and some bad advice. My suggestion, follow the good and totally ignore the bad....
A hammer drill is the way to go...Hilti, Bosch are my first choices and a Dewalt 24v is next. Unless the rock is really solt, a regular drill doesn't work that well. Any rock I've ever seen that was soft enough to drill with a 12v drill... needed glue-ins.
And despite what some people here say.... a power drill will do a better job than a hand drill...
I'm glad to hear that you're going to tr the route to make sure of the bolt placements. The bolts should protect the hard moves, but should also keep you hitting things if you fall. Make sure there are enough bolts to keep you from grounding out. That means, place more bolts down low and if you want to run it out...do it near the top of the route.
As for how many bolts you use... use as many as you think YOU need to be safe.... don't listen to the "experts" on ths forum.
If you can find a mentor, or a couple of frieinds to check you placements, it will be helpful.
Good luck, and be safe
-r
ps to bigdan, as per your statement "because the power drill is faster, the vibration can shatter the rock a bit and end up causing a bigger hole. the power can also simply weaken the rock around the hole. the best, strongest bolts are expertly placed hand drilled bolts" I have to call "b#llsh^t." That statement is simply not true and I'll ask you to offer proof.....
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bigdan
Mar 14, 2003, 7:35 AM
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In reply to: ps to bigdan, as per your statement "because the power drill is faster, the vibration can shatter the rock a bit and end up causing a bigger hole. the power can also simply weaken the rock around the hole. the best, strongest bolts are expertly placed hand drilled bolts" I have to call "b#llsh^t." That statement is simply not true and I'll ask you to offer proof.....
i didn't realize this was a courtroom. i don't have proof, i'm not a scientist, just a climber making comments based on my observations. i'm not trying to be an "expert," i'm trying to be helpful. if i'm wrong, that's fine, just an opinion. sorry, i thought that was clear.
in my experience, i've seen power drills shatter the surface rock a bit too much, making an ok, but subpar hole. i certainly won't suggest that all power drills make bad holes (or even most), nor that all hand drills make good ones. i personally feel more comfortable wielding a hand drill. i feel like i have more control over the subtleties of the hole. just an opinion, of course.
i'll also mention that i do the vast majority of my climbing (and thus my drilling) on sandstone, which obviously might shatter more easily. i suppose that would affect my observations.
best of luck to you. i, as anyone else, have my own views on drilling, but don't force those on anyone. i just offer a viewpoint.
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hroldan
Mar 14, 2003, 2:47 PM
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realitycheck, thats good info!
Thanks all for your advices :D
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jds100
Mar 14, 2003, 5:39 PM
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My own experience is that a "household" drill, 18v, was not enough to get more than 1/2 an inch into sandstone. My partner and I have a 24v DeWalt hammer drill that does a great job, without the "hot battery" setup, that might shorten the life of the drill.
By the way: if you express an opinion, it's probably gonna be accepted better, as such, than if you initially express it as a fact.
And: it sure as hell should take "brain surgery" to establish a sport route, just as much as it does when establishing a trad route, or aid route, or alpine route. In my home area, the "climbing community" rejects the idea of contrived, over-bolted, poorly protected or otherwise sloppy sport routes. People hoping to establish routes here seem to have a sense of the responsibility that is inherent in establishing a route, as opposed to the idea of just getting a name into a guidebook. With hundreds and hundreds of routes established in what is the main sport climbing destination of the area, we have had maybe two "incidents" of dispute about bolting. My partners and I -and other climbers- establish mixed-pro routes, also, respecting the features for trad placements. And, there are trad routes in the area, that are respected, admired and regularly climbed.
It's not fair, based on the original post, to assume that the question is based on naivete, or an eagerness to grid-bolt. And, I think it was particularly rude to make comments that are exactly and specifically contrary to what the original poster asked people not to make.
Good luck to your work.
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hroldan
Mar 14, 2003, 6:14 PM
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Thanks jds100, nice reply.
I see very often how easy is to get answers to never asked questions and often creating fights.
An advice is one thing and is well received, good or bad, but is SAD that some people talk VERY HARD about doing something in a place THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. So, is impossible to live forever in top rope, per example or trad forever if you don't even have the expensive gear to do so.
Thanks all, I finnally got my mind made up to open new routes in the place i've found.
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realitycheck
Mar 15, 2003, 4:10 AM
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bigdan,
fair enough.... perhaps i was too quick to jump on you, but it did sound like you were stating a fact not an opinion... and facts should be able to stand the test of proof. sorry if i misunderstood your comments.
-r
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crackaddict
Mar 15, 2003, 6:00 AM
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It's kind of funny. hroldan just asked about what drill to buy and then it turns into an overbolting thread.
Trad is awesome ther is no doubt about it.
Anyway back to the drill thing.
I started with the hand drill and it took me 20 min's per hole. Then I bought a cordless and oly took me a minute or less.
I have the same drill as jds100. The Dewalt 24v hammer drill.
Probably the best for the money. It cost about $300 and $100 for an extra battery.
Go 24v or more with a drill. 18v will not be up to the task. I was able to drill 9 bolts 2.5" in with 2 batteries in ryolite rock. And you need a hammer drill or rotohammer drill if you are bolting. Rpm's just mean burntout bits and no progess without the rotohammer action.
The Dewalt has the advantage in wieght and size to fit into a pack. And is easy to be hiked with. It also has a switch for a normal drill and works well around the house. So at least it will get used if you don't plan on putting up routes anymore.
Hilti and Bosch make rotohammers that are far superior than the Dewalt. And are well worth it. But they are also alot more expensive too.
Last. Drill responsibly. Its not just you that is going to be climbing this route. Don't overbolt and use pro when you can.
Have fun and later....
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mungeclimber
Mar 15, 2003, 6:36 AM
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Bosch Annihialator 24v - heavy, but you can drill a shitload of holes before the battery goes out. So if Top-down, definitely the way to go. Ground up (where power drill is allowed) if you can modify the drill to put the battery on a backpack with a holster, that would be the most ideal.
Ground up with a full bosch sucks to fall.
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bigdan
Mar 15, 2003, 7:11 AM
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In reply to: sorry if i misunderstood your comments.
sorry if i misexpressed them.
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leec
Mar 31, 2003, 7:38 PM
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In simple engineering terms a high amp/hour, pneumatic, rotary hammer is the most effective drilling tool you are looking for. Both the Hilti TE-6A and the Bosch Annihilator are proven. The Hilti has the edge on endurance - at a price. But there are killer deals out there.
If you're putting bolts in, do it properly with the right kit. In other words, practice where it doesn't matter.
It might be your life on it, not just some bozo a few years later.
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mozea
Mar 31, 2003, 7:45 PM
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"advices" is not a word...
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hroldan
Mar 31, 2003, 8:36 PM
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ehhhh????? :twisted:
try here:
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/advice
or try google: 3,810!!! is not a word????
MAN!!! don't you have anything to do!! (?)
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rideandclimbkid
Mar 31, 2003, 9:14 PM
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heres how i bolt...buy a 3/8 long drill bit for stone...buy a roll of friction hockey tape. wrap the bit leaving both ends and the threads exposed...i now have a hand drill with a tacky handle
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theooze
Mar 31, 2003, 9:35 PM
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They tell me that Bosch also looked at going to 36V like the Hilti, but decided against it on the basis of weight. Hilti's are beautiful tools, but the Bosches are like half the list price. My Annihilator has many hundreds of holes in our very hard local sandstone (where hand drilling is next to impossible). It's had one major repair, cost $125 I think.
I say, you don't have to get the Porsche. The VW works fine. The Chevies (DeWalt) probably won't hold up.
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merlin
Apr 16, 2003, 11:27 AM
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umm, the Hilti is sweet, tried it out the other day, but also look at Bosch, and the DeWalt i have heard pretty good things about from people, but something no-one has mentioned is panasonic make a pretty nice hammer drill... looks pretty cool. just go with what suits you best.
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granitegod
Apr 16, 2003, 11:36 AM
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My 2 cents:
if you don't know what drill you need, will you know how to safely place bolts?
If you've never developed an area, will you know how to develop a climb?
If not, find someone who can show you! Nothing worse than manky, poorly placed or poorly located bolts that aren't where they need to be.
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cdb1386
Apr 17, 2003, 5:03 PM
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What about this one?
http://www.boschtools.com/Tools+and+Accessories/Tools/prod_detail.htm?item_no=11524
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cdb1386
Apr 17, 2003, 5:06 PM
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In reply to: What about this one? http://www.boschtools.com/Tools+and+Accessories/Tools/prod_detail.htm?item_no=11524 |
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timstich
Apr 23, 2003, 11:33 AM
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In reply to: They tell me that Bosch also looked at going to 36V like the Hilti, but decided against it on the basis of weight. Hilti's are beautiful tools, but the Bosches are like half the list price.
I'll vouch for that. I bought a Hilti TE 6A and really wish I had gotten the Bosch Annihilator. The battery alone for the Hilti is $300, which is about what the damn drill costs. I built my own batteries, so no big deal. But it would be nice to be able to use a stock battery once in a while to do other things. The home wired rig is just not elegant, if you know what I mean.
Buy the Bosch.
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rockhead26
Apr 23, 2003, 1:42 PM
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I've used a 14.4V Walter hammer on sandstone repeatedly. No problems, solid holes, as deep as needed, though it may be slower than the jackhammers others have recommended. Small, quiet, unobtrusive.
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bolthappy
Apr 23, 2003, 2:33 PM
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If you don't have lot's of time and money you really don't want anything to do with putting up routes. You won't get any better at climbing, 90% of climbers will like what you are doing the other 10% will flame you and chop your routes. If this has not deterred you read on.
Try hooking up with a local route setter and help put up a few routes, most would appreciate some free cleaning. Do your first routes at the most outback crag you can find and be prepared to go back and do some chopping and cleaning, drill your holes deep so you can easily fix bad bolt placements.
Cheap bolt gun ???? Don't bother buying a drill unless it's up there in quality like the Bosch Annihilator, Bulldog, or Hilti. You can find a deal on these guns, Rebulit by Bosch, used, or at pawn shops. The catch with bolt guns is the batteries, they are expensive, bulldog $175, Annihilator $250, Hilti $250 to $300 each. You can pick up a used 24V with bad batteries cheap, don't pay more than $200 bucks and turbo it. Don't buy anything that is not 24V .Bosch Bulldog: weak, Bosch Annihilator: good deal for tha money, Hilti : the best but too expensive.
Rules of bolting:
If its not your route don't mess with it. Be prepared to take criticism and fix, and clean your routes, don't put up dime store routes, use stainless steel bolts with manufactured hangers and anchors, only a classic is worth the time and money.
HAPPY BOLTING
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trekker
Apr 23, 2003, 3:06 PM
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I use a Hilti TE-6A in my work and I think it works fantastic drilling bolts. It is very expensive but the company paid for it and I get to loan it out if I need to. I've seen others in our popular granite quarry putting up routes using Hilti 36V drills as well.
I concur with quite a few of the others here. Bosch works fine too but Hilti has a hefty price tag. But if you ask me, I don't think I will put my personal money down on a Hilti drill just to put up routes on a personal basis... it's very expensive including the parts as well. Remember the spare battery, drill bits etc. And that doesn't include the battery adapter to have your batt on a belt or in a small backpack. Just my 2 cents.. :)
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hishopper
Apr 23, 2003, 3:14 PM
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I agree with trekker and pywiak - the Hilti is sweet.
One note of caution: HomeDepot and similair stores are selling cheaper consumer versions of Dewalt and other products that look and feel exactly the same as the professional models.
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bolthappy
Apr 23, 2003, 3:58 PM
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I have an xtra battery for the hilti TE5A 24V like new, $100 I think it fits the TE6A also
bolthappy@hotmail.com
I work construction, every time they bring out a Dewalt tool it breaks and is way weak. Hilti kicks ass but man thats a lot of $$$$ I like Bosch and Ryobi when it's my $$$$$
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joens
Apr 23, 2003, 6:41 PM
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I don't know much about climbing I am just getting started . But I do know a bit about drills through work .someone mentioned making sure the drill bit is exactly the same size as the bolt .I have run into that several times finding out either the drill bit or the bolt is a little off and even though they both say the same size the hole is either too big or too small for the bolt. I would test it on a rock in the back yard first . it would be bad to climb all the way up with the drill to find the bolt wont tighten up in the hole.
Joens
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smkyrobinson
Jun 9, 2003, 11:26 PM
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My Hilti Te-6a has gone as many as 45 holes 3/8 by 4" in good limestone, the thing is way more efficient and comfortable to use and the battery charger actually works, My annihillator was great but with the 3.0 ah battery I was only getting like 15 holes tops in good rock.
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xippi
Jun 24, 2003, 10:34 PM
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I use a cheap a$$ Black and Decker drill I bought for 60 bucks Canadian Brand New.....with standard Masonry bits....It's only 14.4Volts.....Runs out a little quicker than most but I just carry an extra battery......I have drilled sandstone, limestone and granite with it.......This crap about NEEDing a hammer drill is nonsense....yeah it works a little better but if your budget minded......and have a little extra time.....about 30 to 90 minutes more per route ....go with it......inn the end it is you who must balance the pro's and cons of each......
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herm
Sep 9, 2003, 3:32 AM
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Bosch is the old reliable, get lots of bits and extra battery packs. You'll get tired of drillin' holes soon enuff.
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timstich
Sep 21, 2003, 1:14 PM
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In reply to: My Hilti Te-6a has gone as many as 45 holes 3/8 by 4" in good limestone, the thing is way more efficient and comfortable to use and the battery charger actually works, My annihillator was great but with the 3.0 ah battery I was only getting like 15 holes tops in good rock.
Something was wrong with your battery or charger or both. Friends of mine are getting similar performance if not better with their Annihilators. And you are leaving out the price of the TE-6A battery here, which is $300 as opposed to the Bosch, which I hear is more like $70. I still regret getting the Hilti for this reason.
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smkyrobinson
Sep 23, 2003, 4:20 PM
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Sorry, you are totally incorrect on this one 15 holes out of a 3.0 ah bosch annihilator is the norm around here, I know 4 others who own them, and yes the bosch charger is a weak unit.
the bosch runs on a 16 amp motor and has two 24 volt cells to run on for 3.0 ah.
The Hilti te-6a has a 12 amp motor drawing current from three cells at 36 volts, 2.4 ah, your argument makes no sense the hilti flat out kills any bosch drill, would'nt trade back for any reason, when i go out and haul 70 lbs of gear and jug endless rope the last thing i want is to run out of juice at a different bolt count everytime, the hilti will go home with power to spare everytime.
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timstich
Sep 23, 2003, 5:15 PM
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So the Bosch chargers are limiting the efficiency of the drill's battery you are saying? Well if that link in the chain is weak, yeah, not a good selection. None the less, a friend of mine has reported getting very impressive results when he first bought his Bosch Annihilator drill new. I hate to try and guess at the number of holes he was getting on each battery, since I don't recall the size bit, hole depth, etc. But it was over 50 I sort of recall in concrete. Not sure how it's doing now.
I've never put the Hilti to the endurance test with a stock battery.
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rockprodigy
Sep 24, 2003, 4:44 AM
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Concrete!? Are you joking? That doesn't even compare to rock. What numbers is he getting in rock? Last Sunday my TE-6A made 32 holes (3/8x2 1/2) in granite with plenty of juice left and I've had better days than that. I don't know about the Bosch, but I know my drill smokes!
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smkyrobinson
Sep 24, 2003, 7:19 PM
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The only point I was making is that the Hilti te-6a draws less current from its battery and it has a 86 watt hour battery at 36 volts, so its power reserves over the Bosch annihilator are huge. the Bosch is a great drill but it drains its battery very quickly, and when bosch issued the 3.0ah battery to replace the 2.5ah battery they made no change to the charger, wich already was a piece of crap.
The bosch drill has no deep discharge prevention, the hilti simply shuts off when its time to recharge, and the hilti charger trickle charges and conditions the battery for best results.
Operator comfort was the biggest selling point to me, the rubberized ergonomic handle and lack of vibration transmited to your hands are great as well as not having to really ram it into your work to get it to drill, especially helpful when drilling on lead or in caves, My bosch required constant, strenuous pushing to engage the hammering mechanism, this kicks your ass when your holding a bolt to your waist and drilling way over your head. if price is your issue go on Ebay I found mine for 200. bucks brand new in a case, and was able to sell my Bosch for more than i paid for my Hilti, piece smky.
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brianinslc
Sep 24, 2003, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: Concrete!? Are you joking? That doesn't even compare to rock. What numbers is he getting in rock? Last Sunday my TE-6A made 32 holes (3/8x2 1/2) in granite with plenty of juice left and I've had better days than that. I don't know about the Bosch, but I know my drill smokes!
There's different grades of concrete just like different types of rock. No comparison between, say, entrada sandstone and the quartzite in the Uintas, for example.
I'd take drillin' in soft matrix in Maple over old, hardened concrete. And, no doubt some concrete is a bit harder to drill into than the granite at, say, Castle Rock.
TE-6A rocks. But, I'm leanin' toward the Bosch for further from the trail and lead stuff. So much more compact and lighter.
Mike, you probably got lucky and have a "tuesday" or "wednesday" model... (btw, how many routes?)
Just picked up an Annihilator. I'm curious to see how it works...
Brian in SLC
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mattheww
Sep 24, 2003, 7:52 PM
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Why not just rent a Hilti for a weekend? Most equipment rental places carry hammer drills and it should only set you back $50 or so.... Go ahead and mark the spots where you think a bolt would be necessary while on toprope before renting one though...
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rockprodigy
Sep 25, 2003, 4:07 AM
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7
I think the best thing about the TE-6A (as previously mentioned) is the deep-discharge prevention and the conditioning charge mode. Time will tell whether or not that equates to actual longer life of the battery, but it should. It certainly takes the guess work out of "maintaining" the battery. One thing I would change about it, is that there is nowhere good to tie a shoulder sling...you could duct tape it do the handle, but I hate gunking up a brand-new tool like that. The ergo-handle is pretty sweet.
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smkyrobinson
Sep 25, 2003, 8:45 PM
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Actually they weigh the same, unless you purchase your annihilator with the tiny 1.7 ah battery, in wich case good luck even getting one pitch up a day.
The Te-6 is actually smaller, I used to own both these models
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timstich
Sep 25, 2003, 9:18 PM
Post #62 of 69
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In reply to: Concrete!? Are you joking? That doesn't even compare to rock. What numbers is he getting in rock? Last Sunday my TE-6A made 32 holes (3/8x2 1/2) in granite with plenty of juice left and I've had better days than that. I don't know about the Bosch, but I know my drill smokes!
4000 psi Concrete is fairly comparable to medium limestone, which is all I have bolted to date. Super hard limestone, eh, fewer. And you have just admitted that you don't know about the Bosch. I have used both and have the TE-6A myself. Really, is there a reason for all of this misplaced emtion about one's choice of drill? It's a tool for Christ's sake. Both are good.
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brianinslc
Sep 25, 2003, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: Actually they weigh the same, unless you purchase your annihilator with the tiny 1.7 ah battery, in wich case good luck even getting one pitch up a day. The Te-6 is actually smaller, I used to own both these models
No they don't weigh the same.
TE6A weighs 10.4 lbs, Bosch Annihilator weighs 9.2 lbs with the 3.0Ah battery, and 7.7 lbs with the 1.7Ah battery.
Above is according to the specs available on each products website. And...I have to say, that holding each one out in front and above you with one hand, even with the 3Ah battery, the Bosch feels much lighter.
Size wise, they seem about the same (should measure them side by each). The Bosch seems smaller to me, and the case is a BUNCH smaller.
Specs on length are 13.0" each. TE6A is 3.9" in width and 8.9" in height. Bosch website doesn't list a width and height.
One thing I wonder about, is overhead drilling one handed with each drill. Hilti is heavy and bulky, but, rock-n-rolls. Bosch has this clutch thing that engages under a load, so, I'm wondering how that would work while you're sweatin' bullets leading (anyone know?). Bunch of folk seem to like leading with them.
Balance of each drill is nice in that they aren't too long compared to the weight distribution and battery location. Be even nicer with a 4" drill bit (anyone know of any 3/8" diameter 4" bits available for these drills??).
Mike, I girth hitch a 6mm cord onto the handle of the TE-6A with a short loop to which I clip a locker. Then attach to a padded gear sling. Seems to work well, carry well, hand nicely, easy to pick up and put down. No tape mess either. Will probably try to fixture the Bosch the same way.
Just bought some lead acid batteries...will have to give them a try...in a fanny pack, makes drill body light to get the batteries off.
Brian in SLC
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silkyerm
Sep 25, 2003, 10:21 PM
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Post subject: Re: Advices to buy a drill for bolting
the plural of advice is advice not advices :shock: unless advices is some totally new word that I have never heard of and is not in websters which I just got through checking (I had a dictionary by my desk):)
just it would be nice to make another post that has no relevance to the origional question
:wink:
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rockprodigy
Sep 26, 2003, 4:52 PM
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In reply to: the plural of advice is advice not advices
Obviously you have never seen "Pumping Iron" with Arnold:
"When it comes to the competition, I am his Father.
He comes to me for advices. So, it is not that hard to give him;
the wrong advices." -Arnold
Brian, how do you keep the cord from sliding up onto the trigger? I'll have to see your setup some time.
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slablizard
Oct 14, 2003, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: I would be a better climber if bolts were not everywhere. I do think there are enough bolts up and the rest of the planet should be trad. That's My humble opinion. Buy some cams with the cash. Climb On, Bill
Suuuure and get stuck climbing cracks. How do you protect a slab without bolts?
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brokensylence
Oct 14, 2003, 4:14 AM
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Registered: Aug 8, 2002
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What the !@#$
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areuinclimber
Oct 13, 2005, 5:46 AM
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Registered: May 29, 2004
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wait wait wait, why bolting?
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cruzinsouthoc
Oct 13, 2005, 7:45 AM
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Registered: Dec 15, 2001
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check out the Hilti TE-6A with the belt mounted battery pack..that way, the heaviest part of the drill is on your harness and not on the drill and in your hands. Could help with the fatigue factor if you end up doing alot of bolting.
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