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kansasclimber
Jun 29, 2003, 3:04 PM
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I know this topic has been thrown around a lot in climbing, some say it helps some say it doesn't, I don't do it personally, and never will but some say you can't climb to your full potential with out being under the influence of marijuana. Any one agree, disagree.
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paganmonkeyboy
Jun 29, 2003, 3:24 PM
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the answer is going to be different for everyone - some people shouldn't be anywhere near a rope or a rock while stoned, some functional stoners (the exception rather than the rule, usually...) will be *fine* while high, though they might go a little slower and double triple check everything. Ive been the only token stoner in the group several times, and I am usually the most meticulous safety concious person there (the only one to check the damn anchor and lock the biners after 2 others had topped out, slot a backup because the bolts were in a sandstone flake about to rip, things like that the other straight people didn't check. I am not sure being stoned had anything to do with it though). I've also almost untied myself completely from the anchor while not paying attention, having clipped in to the figure 8 instead of the belay loop and untying to set up the rappel (edit - this while completely straight, just not paying enough attention to what I was doing).
I think physically you will perform better without the smoking, and I know it impedes healing when you do get injured. However - climbing has a huge mental component, and that would be where any performance boost would come in. You could probably do the same thing if you meditated for a few minutes and worked on envisioning your performance...then again, I do both :)
Some people use drugs as a tool to release lots of inhibitions - personally I think that is sometimes true, sometimes just an excuse to hide behind a stoned facade. If you can do it high, you certainly can do it straight - you just need to believe that you can and make it happen. And for those of you that would disagree, that's fine. I am a 20 year smoker, probably smoked more in a day than most people in a month in my heyday, used it to hide/self medicate chronic depression and anxiety, etc, so I think I know what I am talking about but *only as it applies to me and my opinions*.
Now - having said all that - anyone wanna burn one and go climb ? :D
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jipstyle
Jun 29, 2003, 3:47 PM
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In reply to: some say you can't climb to your full potential with out being under the influence of marijuana.
Pot robs me of the focus required to climb hard ... at best, it is a crutch that allows some to lower their fears and climb without conscious thought. IMO, though, your best climbing wil be done when you have complete mental and emotional focus.
On the other hand, some people might need that crutch to climb at their limit. *shrug* To each their own ... but I'll never let them belay or spot me.
My personal, subject opinion: leave pot and beer for the end of the day / session / expedition and revel in the beautiful of movement and existence in the natural world. :)
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keinangst
Jun 29, 2003, 4:56 PM
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I always love how many threads there are about climbing high/drunk/buzzed. What about just sacking up and learning to focus and pull hard? I've known many, many stoners in my life (I was one of them for a while) and I have NEVER seen a high person repeatedly make good judgment calls in anything procedure-oriented--even things as simple as cooking, driving a car, solving basic puzzles.
Maybe your focus will be improved somehwat, but I don't believe anyone's explanation that they are "just as safe, if not more" when high. That's the same thing I hear from high people about driving. Even though tests will show that their alertness is increased...the flipside is that their quick decision-making abilities and fine motor skills are diminished. If they weren't, then there really wouldn't be any pointing in smoking... 8)
If you want to get high, focused, and work on your skills, play chess! :wink:
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pinktricam
Jun 29, 2003, 5:49 PM
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In reply to: I know this topic has been thrown around a lot in climbing, some say it helps some say it doesn't, I don't do it personally, and never will but some say you can't climb to your full potential with out being under the influence of marijuana. Any one agree, disagree.
It's a bad idea, period!
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alpinerockfiend
Jun 30, 2003, 3:12 AM
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I don't why everyone makes this into such a divisive issue. Weed affects everybody in a different manner. Personally, I don't smoke while I'm on a climb. I start to second guess myself and lose motivation to push my limits.
On the other hand, one of my main partners usually smokes a bowl while on an approach, while at the base, and before beginning the descent. He has led climbs such as the South Butress Right on Mt. Moran and the North Ridge of the Grand Teton while "under the influence". Individuals on this board need to quit being such zealots and open their minds to the indubitable fact that everybody's different! I'm sure that my partner climbs harder than most of the people that will post messages shining a negative light on smoking while climbing. That doesn't give their stance a whole lot of validity in my eyes.
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northshorebuds
Jun 30, 2003, 3:19 AM
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right on alpine, and by the way, yu live in the best part of the world. i love it out there, and i found a lil smoking hut on my last run skiing this past winter, those are all crazy inside(jackson hole of course)
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jtenright
Jun 30, 2003, 3:36 AM
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Yup I don't do it really would mess me up, but thats just me I am sure some ppl can climb better after smoking
just like anyother sport, I know ppl who surf and snowboard better a little stoned, no reason why Climbing would be any different
like said above its different for everyone
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bandycoot
Jun 30, 2003, 5:07 AM
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You're an idiot for even asking that question...
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jefffski
Jun 30, 2003, 5:24 AM
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thany you paganmonkeyboy for sharing. courageous post.
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fieldmouse
Jun 30, 2003, 5:46 AM
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marijuana is not a drug. This really is not an issue because weed-heads almost always climb with fellow stoners, and vice-versa. If you see someone sparking up near you at the crag, go somewhere else for a little while. If anything, pot makes you paranoid to the point of being extra careful and although it tends to rob you of your motivation, that's nobody's business but the person who is unmotivated. Did you ever notice that the people who dont smoke weed are the ones that really need it?
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jonf
Jun 30, 2003, 4:43 PM
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I know a number of boulderers that swear by gettin a little high before trying a problem, and I have seen a friend of mine work a problem for a while with little succes and then send it directly after smoking, so I do think that it can help some people with their ability to focus and make hard moves. I could seeing being high while doin routes being dangerous, but bouldering doesnt have that same danger, and i think it would be the better kind of climbing to attempt high.
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dingus
Jun 30, 2003, 4:53 PM
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I am OUTRAGED!
DMT
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micahmcguire
Jun 30, 2003, 5:19 PM
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I've never done drugs, and having never done drugs I can safely say that they have nothing to offer....ha
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deleted
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Jun 30, 2003, 5:25 PM
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[quote:d138162b61="fieldmouse"]marijuana is not a drug.[/quote:d138162b61]
perhaps not -- but by ingesting marijuana in any manner you are ingesting THC, which IS a drug.
hmmm ... semantics sometimes don't work, do they? :)
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bandycoot
Jun 30, 2003, 5:28 PM
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I went to UCSD for college. Apparently they have one of the best classical guitar teachers in the world because one of my roommates went to UCSD to study with him. My roommate was AMAZING. We used to love listening to him play. He did concerts that my other roommate and I always tried to go to. He also played in clubs around SD. He had MAD skills. Then one day he told us about how much better he played while stoned. He smoked some weed and started playing. It was pathetic. He missed his notes, couldn't concentrate, and sounded like shit. My other roommate and I bailed since it was a travesty listening to someone that was so good play so poorly. He had no idea. He told us later about how great he played that day and bragged. We told him the truth...
If people want to smoke weed and climb, they are asses. They aren't going to perform at their peak level and every mistake they make not only puts them in jeopardy but often other climbers (on multipitch and the like) and access can be hurt. Smoke all you want, I have no problem with that, but if you think it's possible to perform better while high you're an idiot...
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dingus
Jun 30, 2003, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: but if you think it's possible to perform better while high you're an idiot...
They're high. Get it?
DMT
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northshorebuds
Jun 30, 2003, 5:39 PM
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herb was put on earth for man to use.
The animals have an instinct for 'em
Thats why cats go for catnip
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apollodorus
Jun 30, 2003, 5:43 PM
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Marijuana is merely the Gateway Drug. Climbers who are serious about chemically enhancing their abilities soon graduate to the real deal: LSD, peyote and mushrooms.
Apparently, there is some sort of faux-shamanistic effect, wherein the afflictee comes to believe that he has been transformed into the Holy Gecko (or similar), and can thus go up where a human cannot. There is a strong tradition in Native American cultures for this sort of thing, but as part of religious ceremony, not sports recreation.
Don't try this at home, kids.
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micahmcguire
Jun 30, 2003, 5:57 PM
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so bandicoot. would you say that taking drugs could make you stay awake longer? would you say that taking drugs might help people to concentrate better? would you say that taking drugs might help people to lose weight, recover from an illness, or suppress anxiety? People in the military are often given speed to help stay awake, kids with ADD are given speed to help them concentrate, fat people are given speed to help them lose weight, and how much nastier a drug is speed than marijuana? TONS! Though I am no proponent of self-medication, I'd have to say that I don't believe you are seeing through the "drugs are bad" stigma of much of today's conservative society. Many climbers use marijuana because it gives folks what is called "tunnel vision," wherein your senses regarding the particular thing you are "tunneling" on (be it a cool song, a hike, a climb, whatever" are somewhat heightened. This does not mean that you turn into an all-around better, more focused person, it means that sometimes people can get achieve a narrowed but intensified field of focus when they smoke. This is very easy to do when climbing high. Now, I am not saying that this works for everyone. I've seen alot of people smoke and turn stupid. It works for some. But don't call them idiots-you just don't know.
Can you call all the pilots who are issued speed to help them stay awake idiots? Can you call people who take anti-depressants to feel better about themselves idiots? Can you call almost the entire alcohol drinking, cigarette-smoking, coffee-guzzling society idiots? Because by your logic, if taking drugs makes you an idiot, then everyone is an idiot. If you think that drinking a cup of coffee in the morning helps you perk up, you're an idiot. If you think drinking a beer helps you to unwind, you're an idiot. And by yar, if you smoke cigarettes you're a damn fool!
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keinangst
Jun 30, 2003, 6:05 PM
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In reply to: Marijuana is merely the Gateway Drug.
Nah, caffeine is. :wink:
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toejam
Jun 30, 2003, 6:09 PM
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"some say you can't climb to your full potential with out being under the influence of marijuana"
Marijuana is a vasodilator and analgesic, both properties that can aid in sport. For many people it induces a state of extreme mental focus, often on the kinesthetic feel of the body, which can be useful in discovering or practicing subtle techniques, for instance while bouldering.
However this same focus is a double-edged sword. When diverted from the task at hand, important and seemingly obvious tasks may be forgotten or overlooked. I would avoid situations where someone is dependent on an intoxicated person for their safety.
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xanx
Jun 30, 2003, 6:46 PM
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anyone here know if Sharma was stoned when he sent Realization? or Dave on The Fly? or Fred on Dreamtime? Klem on Emotional Landscapes? I'm sure Dave and Sharma get themselves up plenty of 5.13's while high (probably even some hard .14's), but i doubt you will see too many incredible things from people when they are high - i would also doubt Fred could have flashed that v13 high....
i've never smoked, prolly never will. to me, it is more fun to be the only sober person when everyone else is high/drunk. then you can get them to do stupid sht, take pictures, and laugh ur ass off later.
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fieldmouse
Jun 30, 2003, 6:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: marijuana is not a drug. perhaps not -- but by injesting marijuana in any manner you are injesting THC, which IS a drug. hmmm ... semantics sometimes don't work, do they? :)
ok, hippie- how was your morning coffee? did the smooth mountain grown aroma remind you of how much of a drug addict you are? how was the bar last night? and learn the definition of "semantics"
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alpinerockfiend
Jun 30, 2003, 6:58 PM
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I'm curious to know how many of these marijuana opponents are speaking from actual experience, either from themselves or with partners. It sounds like 90% of the posts to this topic are simply regurgitations of anti-drug propoganda that is the societal norm... I thought most climbers would have the ability to think for themselves!
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