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camhead
Sep 23, 2003, 9:32 PM
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In reply to: Hey asshole, I mean grommet as in gremmie in the climbing context. I may not climb 5.13+ anymore but I have certainly bouldered V10 in this calendar year. If you would like to challenge this assertion, please feel free to take up bvb on his wager. He has offered a $500 bet to anyone who can follow me on my bouldering circuit in Arizona. Put up or STFU asswipe. Curt
first off, curt, my fingers still hurt from that gault's tree problem. geez. but, I've got to know– duz this alleged bouldering circuit include Bachar Cracker of Flagstaff?
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 23, 2003, 10:10 PM
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Jay,
That sounds theoretically possible and reasonable. It also sounds like a 20 plus year, hundred million plus dollar study.
As far as the bouldering scale:
It started with B1,B2,B3 with Gill's range of up to v8 or 9
which evolved into B1-,B1,B1+,B2-,B2,B2+,B3 with a corresponding increase in the range of difficulty to say v10/11.
which has expanded to the current V15 scale which incorporates difficulties on both ends of the original scale.
This increase in gradations seems proportional to the increase in the range of abilities. And there has always been the problem of distinguishing between one grade and another due to the large number of variables.
For example arguing whether a problem is a b1 or a b2 is not really any different then arguing whether a problem is a v5 or a v6. They are both just as silly. So I don’t really see a increase in the noise to signal ratio except in relation to the increase in the number of grades to argue over, which doesn't really have any effect in and of itself. People that want to argue will find something to argue about regardless of the scale being used.
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curt
Sep 23, 2003, 10:21 PM
Post #78 of 88
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Paul,
In reply to: I've got to know– duz this alleged bouldering circuit include Bachar Cracker of Flagstaff?
Curt
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tenn_dawg
Sep 23, 2003, 10:31 PM
Post #79 of 88
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In reply to: Paul, In reply to: I've got to know– duz this alleged bouldering circuit include Bachar Cracker of Flagstaff? Of course. You've got to throw in a 15 foot roof crack or two to keep the grommets honest. Hahahaha Curt
Christ almighty...what have I gotten myself into....
Travis
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curt
Sep 23, 2003, 10:38 PM
Post #80 of 88
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Dan,
In reply to: For example arguing whether a problem is a b1 or a b2 is not really any different then arguing whether a problem is a v5 or a v6. They are both just as silly. So I don’t really see a increase in the noise to signal ratio except in relation to the increase in the number of grades to argue over, which doesn't really have any effect in and of itself.
Since most boulderers I have been around can generally agree whether something is several "V" grades apart, the disagreement would be far less. Mathematically you can explain this by picturing each boulder problem having some normal distribution regarding the individual opinions of boulderers, as to the problem's intrinsic difficulty. My experience with the "V" system has shown me that even +/- 1 sigma out from the mean on this normal distribution of opinions, the curve can be spread across numerous "V" grades.
Hence the non-agreement regarding the difficulty of many boulder problems.
Curt
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jt512
Sep 23, 2003, 11:09 PM
Post #81 of 88
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In reply to: Jay, That sounds theoretically possible and reasonable. It also sounds like a 20 plus year, hundred million plus dollar study.
It was an interesting thought experiment, though.
-Jay
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jt512
Sep 23, 2003, 11:12 PM
Post #82 of 88
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In reply to: In reply to: Paul, In reply to: I've got to know– duz this alleged bouldering circuit include Bachar Cracker of Flagstaff? Of course. You've got to throw in a 15 foot roof crack or two to keep the grommets honest. Hahahaha Curt Christ almighty...what have I gotten myself into.... Travis
Travis, I would recommend that you offer Curt the bottle of Scotch before the contest. It's your only hope.
-Jay
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 24, 2003, 12:19 AM
Post #83 of 88
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Curt,
My take is that The B system is effectively a non-grading system and worse would lead to a "click" type thing where people would claim to be a b2 climber and feel proud of it. This would evolve into "being a good climber means being able to climb a b2"
What would be the point in having a grading system with two grades? As far as I can see it would be pointless.
Take away the v grade system and people would talk in terms of a problem specific grading system. i.e., this problem is harder than that problem.(more disagreements due to being problem specific (inf.) as opposed to grade specific (limited))
I would agree that the whole system of grading that is ingrained into our society is kind of pointless, but I also don’t think we are going to grow out of it anytime soon.
The main downside to a grading system is that some people fall prey to the belief that they can’t do something because of what it is graded.
On the plus side is that it can be used as a guide to encourage you to try problems that are a little harder then anything you have sent so far.
Whether or not the grade is accurate is beside the point.
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curt
Sep 24, 2003, 12:29 AM
Post #84 of 88
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Dan,
In reply to: On the plus side is that it can be used as a guide to encourage you to try problems that are a little harder then anything you have sent so far.
And, back to the original topic of this thread, another great misuse of the "V" system (and therefore another problem with it) is found here:
http://www.8a.nu/eng/articles/gradjmf.shtml
Just adopt use of this grade conversion chart and we can all be V10 climbers. I guess I've done hundreds of them. Haha.
Curt
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blotched
Sep 24, 2003, 12:39 AM
Post #85 of 88
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5.13 is my pay.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 24, 2003, 12:58 AM
Post #86 of 88
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Curt,
Agreed that a locals tour is way superior to a guidebook.
That 8a chart is pretty funny for sure. (a misguided sport climbers guide to bouldering?)
I also agree that any grading system is not a accurate reflection of absolute difficulty. The most you can hope for is that it is fairly accurate as far as relative difficulties in a particular area.
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crimsontime
Sep 24, 2003, 1:46 AM
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Who cares about 5.x sport anything. Anyone can repeatedly hang on bolts until they send a route. I respect 5.10 trad more than that.
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deadpointman
Sep 24, 2003, 2:09 AM
Post #88 of 88
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In reply to: Who cares about 5.x sport anything. Anyone can repeatedly hang on bolts until they send a route. I respect 5.10 trad more than that.
Um . . . no--if it only it were that easy. I think I'll go hang from the bolts on a 5.13c and see if that gets me any closer to sending the route. Probably not. :lol:
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