|
oldeclimber
Sep 26, 2003, 4:35 AM
Post #1 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
What kind of meds do you carry to the crag?
What kind of tragedy are you really prepared to handle?
Do you have any favorite med brands for packaging reasons, convenience or whatever?
Do you always carry your meds up the wall on multipitch?
Do you discuss things to do in the event of a medical emergency with other climbers in your group?
Any special rules or procedures that you use or think are important?
|
|
|
|
|
coldclimb
Sep 26, 2003, 4:41 AM
Post #2 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 6909
|
Tape. Tape fixes everything. :D I also have a first aid kit, but I don't know what'd in it, and I've never used it. Used lots of tape though. I have three rolls in my bag, now that my dad's soccer coaching season is over and he had some extra. :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
crackaddict
Sep 26, 2003, 5:02 AM
Post #3 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2000
Posts: 1279
|
This is a cool thread.
I carry a backpackers type first aid kit filled with most everything over the counter in it. Antiseptic, bandages, painkillers etc. Plus some extras.
Some things that have come in handy in it are.
Benadryl- I always see bees and wasp out climbing. Ever seen some one get a bee sting that is allergic. I have. Watch out they swell up quick. Scary that someone could die from a sting. Up on a climb is not a good place to have this occur. This can be taken care of with one simple pill.
I went to the army surplus and bought some things that would help my kit.
Water ration- small bag of water that can be used to hydrate or clean wounds when clean water is not existent.
Widerness flare- Small and lite for your kit.
Signal mirror- handy to have lite metal mirror.
Duct tape- goes w/out saying
Cold Compress- Great for swelling or heat exhaustion.
I carry this kit when ever I am outdoors.
It is just smart to be prepared.
|
|
|
|
|
jookyhead
Sep 26, 2003, 5:24 AM
Post #4 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2003
Posts: 667
|
Ibuprofen and Duct-Tape :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
andypro
Sep 26, 2003, 6:07 AM
Post #5 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1077
|
among the other useful stuff people have mentioned, I always carry two eppi pens. For that random case of anaphylactic (sp?) shock. Tha'ts bad juju and can kill in a matter of less than a minute, and you never know when or why it might happen. Why carry two when one should do? Murpheys law.
I also carry a bottle of that hurt free antiseptic wash stuff. I dont remember who makes it..johnson and johnson or bandaid I think. It's got lydocain in it. Great stuff, but some people are allergic. VERY allergic. See first paragraph.
The best thing to have in your bag that I've found is a little pad of paper with medical histories, health issues, allergies, prescription needs etc. of all your partners.
One thing I see people carrying that I really frown upon are narcotic pain killers and/or injectable pain killers (dilaudid, morphine, demerol, etc). They can easily kill someone that would have lived, just suffered a bit. I've seen it happen. They go into shock, but are still screaming about the pain. easy morphine injection later they're happy as can be, but it takes twice as long tog et them down ebcause you have to constantly stop to administer CPR and tha'ts usually fruitless. Not a good way to end a good day.
That said, OTC tylenol with codiene is good stuff. Just tough to get legally here in the states. I climb mostly in canada, so I jsut buy a small bottle of 30 or so for a few dollars, then ditch it before crossing back over the border. If you need mroe pain meds than that, you better either be a paramedic or field doctor, or good at putting up with bitching and complaining. Cant stress enough that pain killers are downright dangerous in most accident cases that youd get into climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
rcaret
Sep 26, 2003, 6:18 AM
Post #6 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2002
Posts: 227
|
I always carry a large Med Kit that has
Supplies for treating anything from blisters to major trauma, plus equipment for dealing with infectious materials
Essential equipment: CPR kit, scalpel, digital thermometer, EMT shears, splinter forceps, duct tape
For wounds: 20cc irrigation syringe, surgical scrub brush, povidone iodine, Tincture of Benzoin, wound closure strips
Antibacterial towlettes, antiseptic cream, gauze pads, non-adherent sterile dressings, trauma pads
Stockinette and gauze bandages, strip/knuckle bandages, and adhesive tape
For sprains and fractures: moldable SAM splint, elastic bandage, 2 triangular bandages and safety pins
For burns and blisters: Spenco 2nd Skin, moleskin, adhesive knit bandage and antibiotic ointment and aloe vera gel
Medications: Extra Strength Tylenol, Motrin, antihistamine and 4 pill vials for medication others may need , codeine ect
For handling infectious materials: 6-pair nitrile examination gloves, antimicrobial hand wipes, disposal bag
Includes comprehensive wilderness medicine and life-threatening emergency reference guides, accident report and pencil .
And for all the times I've had to use it . It has ben for Motorcycle , Auto ,Bicycle or Home accidents ,But never a climbing accident ?
|
|
|
|
|
mkjwngoat
Sep 26, 2003, 9:46 AM
Post #7 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 35
|
The only things you really NEED in your med bag is
tape-obvious
gauze-you need something fairly sterile to stop severe bleeding, otherwise infection can be lethal in an otherwise minor wound.
Triangle bandage- I can begin to explain all the wonderful uses.
non-aspirin- Legal an less of a stomach irritation
benidryl- allergic reactions
As for things like epi pens, if you can find a doctor who belives in you enough to give you an open script, then go for it. Narcotic pain killers and other meds (such as dopamine and lidocaine for cardiovascular emergencies) really have no place unless you know immediate hopsitalization is available.
As an EMT myself, i rarely go out of my way to carry meds or gear that are intended to be used in a controlled pre-hospital setting. Most of the emergencies are likely to be trauma anyways, and all the Techs who pick the guy up are going to do is put them on high flow oxygen and take them to the ER.
The last point I feel that needs to be made is that if you go beyond what you are trained for your likely to cause complications. So yeah, splint a broken bone or stop bleeding, even give CPR, but I won't give a cricothyrotomoy because I don't know what will happen. The patient will live longer if you do everything you can and are able to do, but nothing more.
|
|
|
|
|
flypn
Sep 26, 2003, 1:55 PM
Post #8 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2002
Posts: 25
|
I carry an Outdoor Reaserch Mountaineer med kit that I've stripped down. The only things you really need are ibuprofen (10-20ish), antihistamines (same#, but I might take more), epinephrine (if you can get your hands on it), gauze/bandages (10mx.), one form or another of antiseptic (iodine is the classic), a good water filter (I have aquamira drops) this is to irrigate a wound (flushing out and maintaining a clean wound is key, thats the reason we use bandages, iodine, bacitracin, etc, so all you really need in a pinch is water. this is also presuming much about your location and the condition of the patient). The last and formost is several pairs of rubber gloves. if you are interested in how to come up with your own system, I'd highly reccomend taking a Wilderness First Responder class, or at least a Wilderness First Aid class. Just look up Wilderness Medical Associates, Wilderness Medical Institute, or Stonehearth Open Learning Opportunities online.
cheers!
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 26, 2003, 2:21 PM
Post #9 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
I really like where this thread is going. Some helpful items already.
Please don't forget to cover the other aspects of my original post ......
Do you discuss things to do in the event of a medical emergency with other climbers in your group?
For example: I carry a GPS when my son and I go way out there. If I crash, he knows to hit the MOB (Man overboard) key on the GPS to mark my exact position, render whatever first aid he can, head back to the truck, drive until he can hit a cell site, call 911 and give them the GPS coordinates. So that even if he is scared and confused, I may still be able to get help from anyone with a GPS.
|
|
|
|
|
vertical_reality
Sep 26, 2003, 2:29 PM
Post #10 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 19, 2002
Posts: 2073
|
The last time this was discussed, everyone was prepared to stick a Bic pen in your throat.
|
|
|
|
|
da5id
Sep 26, 2003, 2:34 PM
Post #11 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2003
Posts: 155
|
go for medical micropore tape. it bonds to skin and nothing else. if you put a little gauze of something over a wound, then cover it in one layer of micropore tape, it wont come off, not even in an extended swim. not good for non-medical taping thouhg because you cant wrap it around several times, as it literally wont stick to itself
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Sep 26, 2003, 4:09 PM
Post #12 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
A guy with medical experience recently shared his experience as the first responder to a fatality on Nutcracker in Yosemite. There's nothing that could have been done for the guy who fell, regardless of the medical kit, but Yves stressed the importance of having several pair of non-latex plastic gloves. And a CRP kit. I can imagine in even the best case a serious fall can create a huge mess.
I carry vitiman-I, Benedryl, water purification tablets, a small SAM splint, gauze, athletic tape, and duct tape. Considering adding a pint of Bacardi 151, various narcotic pills, and a one-shot Derringer for worst case scenarios.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
galt
Sep 26, 2003, 5:12 PM
Post #13 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 3, 2002
Posts: 267
|
Depends on who I'm climbing with. If it's just a friend, I carry tape and chalk. (Ever use chalk on a scrape that's bleeding? Not the greatest idea in the world, but it soaks up the blood. NOTE: YOU MUST CLEAN THE SITE AFTER YOU GET HOME!)
If I'm with a group (7+ people for over 3 days of climbing) I'm usually the designated Med guy (I'm WFR and have yet to be in a group climb with more anyone more qualified) and I always have an extensive medical kit on hand including:
- MY MIND
- A sealed envelope with everyone's medical history. (If anything happens open the envelope and you have their info. If nothing happens you don't have to infringe on their privacy)
- Iodine soaked Gauze Pads
- Non-Latex Gloves
- Epi
- CPR Mask (I ALWAYS have that on my keychain)
- Benadryl
- Sam Splint
- More tape then the entire 96' Olympics used
- Butterfly Closures
- Bandana
- Gauze pads in every shape and size
- Water Proof Band-Aids
- Band-Aids in every shape and size
- Maxi-Pad (I used my only Surgical Sponges)
- Ibuprofen
- WFR/WEMT/WFA Field Book
- Pen
- LED Flashlight
- Needle
- Thread
- Safety Pins
- Trauma Sheers
- Hand Sanatizer
- Plastic Zip lock Bag
- 2 packets of salt and sugar
- New Skin
- Second Skin
- Duct Tape
(No doubt there are things I’ve forgotten, but I’m not going to go look in my kit)
I’ve further broken down my kit into triage and general comfort and I’m the only guy who touches my kit. (Someone goes in for a band-aid and your epi gets moved… bad news bears.) Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
|
wc
Sep 26, 2003, 5:42 PM
Post #14 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 176
|
Mine is more like a rec bag than a med bag. We got your standard tape, tincture, gauze, bandaids, clippers, file board, benedryl, advil, etc
Then we have the fun stuff: lortab, xanax, codine, and of course the necessary safety materials. :shock: cough cough.
|
|
|
|
|
phaedrus
Sep 26, 2003, 7:02 PM
Post #15 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 3046
|
One thing I'll add to this, particularly for long trips, is a package of sweetened gelatin (i.e., Jello). Got this idea when I took a WFA course from SOLO a few years back. It's great for treating mild hypothermia: serve it warm- it's got sugars, proteins... all the stuff someone with hypothermia needs.
|
|
|
|
|
rizzuh
Sep 26, 2003, 8:09 PM
Post #16 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2003
Posts: 197
|
1/5 of JD :)
|
|
|
|
|
biff
Sep 26, 2003, 8:18 PM
Post #17 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 5, 2001
Posts: 851
|
I carry pain killers / water / tape / knife / sometimes vodka.
If it bleeds, put tape on it (use a shirt as gauze if required)
If it hurts, use painkillers / vodka.
If it really hurts get medical attention as soon as possible.
My feeling is that anything more than that would only be needed if the injury is really bad, and most of the places I climb a rescue can be made within 2 hours. Carrying anything more than that up a climb would be excssive, and trying to do anymore first aid than that would usually just lengthen the time to get proper medical attention.
|
|
|
|
|
micahmcguire
Sep 26, 2003, 8:29 PM
Post #18 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 889
|
meds? basically none. you have to ask yourself, why take any meds at all when you are simply trying to ensure the survival of a victim from the moment of first response until proper EMS arrives to take over? Its not like giving someone morphine for the pain is going to help them not bleed out before the chopper gets there. That is why, instead of wasting space in your emergency kits with pills and drugs, I suggest you pack in more gauze and tape. Its not like most of you are trained, qualified, or allowed under law to administer medication.
That point driven home (I hope), I bring Ibuprofen out on long hikes because it helps reduce the swelling in my hips, knees, and feet. In an emergency it wouldn't do squat.
I would suggest, however, that you know what emergencies to expect of any member of your party. If one of them is asthmatic, it is imperative that you make sure they will have access to their inhaler. One of my closest friends is asthmatic, so I always bring an extra albuterol inhaler for him when we go hiking or climbing. If one of your friends is allergic to beestings or something else, I would make sure that your party has at least one epinepherine pin with you just in case.
But as far as real meds go, its not like many or the chemical interventions you could do to a patient in that first responder setting are going to be helpful. Better than any meds, bring a cell-phone to call proper EMS with if something should happen. Trust me, they'll have all the meds that the victim is going to need (and proper training to boot).
|
|
|
|
|
meataxe
Sep 26, 2003, 10:02 PM
Post #19 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 1162
|
How about: The machine that goes 'Bing!'...
I should probably start carrying a basic first aid kit. For short approaches, I guess the main thing would be to stop bleeding in event of a serious injury, because a rescue can take a lot of time if hauling stretcher over talus, etc.
If more remote, (1+ days for rescue) then I could see more of the pain reliever / antibiotic. If it's just a quick hike out, you can get cleaned up at the hospital.
|
|
|
|
|
jansuw
Sep 26, 2003, 10:04 PM
Post #20 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 140
|
What micahmcguire said! I have a little ziplock bag with this thing you get in Finland for beestings and snakebites (a pill), gauze and bandages. I can't imagine needing anything else? I have tape in my climbing bag always of course, and I always bring plenty of water. And, I always carry my cellphone! I mean, in Finland, who doesnt carry their cellphones, hehe. I'm trained in first aid and CPR, and the only thing that this thread has made me think of is one of those CPR mask things. Of course, I take more things if I'm off for a longer trip, but if you're cragging, do you need a disinfectant? Someone starts bleeding badly, you cover up the wound and call 911 or drive them to the nearest hospital. If you try to clean the wound, you're just gonna be wasting your time... Oh and plastic gloves, I'm gonna go buy some tomorrow! :)
|
|
|
|
|
phyreman
Sep 26, 2003, 10:40 PM
Post #21 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 93
|
I have to agree with some of the above posts... The only reason I see for carrying meds with you is if they are for YOU. For instance, the epi pen and others. Unless you are on some expedition where EMS is hours and hours away don't carry stuff you aren't qualified to use. As a paramedic I can assure you: Anything beyond basic stabalization usually does more harm than good.
Anyway, I carry:
Duct Tape
Medical tape
a couple 4x3 dressings
a few bandaids
a couple foil packets of polysporin
a nailclipper
a sterile scalpel (for cutting off those stupid flappers that ruin your day, nothing more advanced than that ;))
some rubbing alcohol pads.
All this weighs about 1.5 ounces.
|
|
|
|
|
mtnrsq
Sep 26, 2003, 11:52 PM
Post #22 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 30, 2003
Posts: 70
|
Personal use = keep it simple.
Duct tape
small assortment of bandaids (water "proof")
swiss-army type knife (simple model - not too many doodads)
some 4x4s
ibuprofen or similar
antiseptic wipes
Coban
small fire starter set-up (waterproof matches, firestarter stuff) (a small fire is often the best therapy while you wait for rescue)
OTC antihistamines (take your pick)
non-latex exam gloves - the blue thick (6mil(?)) ones
small pencil/notepad
ziploc-type bag (2)
plastic trashbag
small packet of electrolyte mix
SAM splint
Other than the SAM splint it all fits in a surprisingly small bag. Not sure about the weight but it is a bit porky with the SAM splint (they are just so damn versatile....).
I do have a CPR micro-shield (key chain type) but lets face it - if you have a traumatic arrest/MI in the backcountry and ACLS-level care is hours away - CPR is not going to do much for you.
'bout it. As some said - using narcotic pain meds is dangerous business if you don't know what you're doing (and are keeping them current) - although they can ease you into the afterlife floating on a cloud.....If you have prescription meds - they should be for your use only.
Actual rescue calls bring a whole different med bag including airway equip, spinal stabilization stuff, O2, meds, assessment stuff, splinting stuff, dressings, etc., etc. AND more importantly - the training to know when/how to use it
|
|
|
|
|
xblacklungx
Sep 27, 2003, 12:29 AM
Post #23 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 15, 2003
Posts: 56
|
tape at the moment, i saw a head-ache table advertised today that will aid muscle pains as well.. so i might have to check that one out!
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 2:57 AM
Post #24 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
mtnsq wrote:
In reply to: using narcotic pain meds is dangerous business if you don't know what you're doing (and are keeping them current) -
Would you mind expanding on that comment a bit. Are you talking about tylenol 3 w/codine or something else? And what affect is altered by the age of the med. When is it proper to use a pain killer and what type would you use? And in addition, when is it definately not advised?
AndyPro Wrote:
In reply to: That said, OTC tylenol with codiene is good stuff. Just tough to get legally here in the states. I climb mostly in canada, so I jsut buy a small bottle of 30 or so for a few dollars, then ditch it before crossing back over the border. If you need mroe pain meds than that, you better either be a paramedic or field doctor, or good at putting up with bitching and complaining. Cant stress enough that pain killers are downright dangerous in most accident cases that youd get into climbing.
There also seems to be a split opinion on whether or not to carry an Epi Pen. What is its purpose, and what are the pros and cons of its use? Is the Epi Pen available otc or is this something best left to medical professionals?
I was thinking more along the lines of using Benedryl (and a sting stick) for insect bites. Which is the better way to go and is there any problem with benedryl. Or should I just completely wrap the victim in tape, put a stamp on his forehead and mail him to the nearest hospital?
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 27, 2003, 3:02 AM
Post #25 of 68
(4263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
In reply to: ... The only reason I see for carrying meds with you is if they are for YOU.
Exactly.
Vicodin
Northern Lights
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 3:02 AM
Post #26 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
Rizzuh Wrote:
Too cheap to buy Crown Royal???
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 3:08 AM
Post #27 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
CrackAddict Wrote: In reply to: Signal mirror- handy to have lite metal mirror. |
|
|
|
|
hops_scout
Sep 27, 2003, 3:37 AM
Post #28 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 51
|
In reply to: Personal use = keep it simple. non-latex exam gloves - the blue thick (6mil(?)) ones
Not positive, but I believe those are nitrile, or something like that.
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Sep 27, 2003, 4:39 AM
Post #29 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
In reply to: There also seems to be a split opinion on whether or not to carry an Epi Pen. What is its purpose, and what are the pros and cons of its use? Is the Epi Pen available otc or is this something best left to medical professionals? I was thinking more along the lines of using Benedryl (and a sting stick) for insect bites. Which is the better way to go and is there any problem with benedryl. Or should I just completely wrap the victim in tape, put a stamp on his forehead and mail him to the nearest hospital?
Epi pen is to treat anaphylaxis. Anaphylaxis is a systemic reaction of the entire body, as opposed to localize swelling. Often caused by a reaction to a bee sting. The next major cause is a reaction to some form of drug. The main concern is to prevent the person’s airway from swelling shut. An Epi pen is fast acting and should be supplemented with 50 mg of benedryl (diphenhydramine) which takes 20 to 30 minutes to kick in. Your not likely to hurt someone with benadryl and the main side effect is drowsiness.
(you can often get a needed second dose out of a epi pen)
Epi pens require a doctor’s prescription, (many personal physicians will write you a script for one if you have the knowledge to use it properly).
Downside is they cost $80? And expire after two years.
An over the counter substitute is primatine mist (asthma med). The downside to this is that you cannot use this method after the airway has shut. Use all of it while you are still able to.
An epi pen or inhaler is the #1 potentially lifesaving med you can carry beside glucose.
take a wfr!
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 10:59 AM
Post #30 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
Thanks for the explanation. You hear about people having severe reactions to stings all the time. Since I don't have a good relationship with any doctors I will probably stick to carrying benedryl for now. I may just carry a few more in the future. I may also buy a new box since the once I have are most likely out of date.
|
|
|
|
|
dc
Sep 27, 2003, 1:16 PM
Post #31 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2003
Posts: 355
|
i dont have a med bag...
but i just carry some bandaids and tape and gauze
|
|
|
|
|
emtclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 7:33 PM
Post #32 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 26, 2003
Posts: 263
|
I usually carry
Elastoplast cut-able bandaids
4x4 Gauze
2 rolls 3 inch cling-wrap
one SAM splint
3 triangular bandages
Alcohol & Betadine swabs
4 pairs of latex gloves
Ibuprophen (400mg/ tab)
OTC antihystamines
Paper/ pencil
one 20cc syringe for surface cleaning
2x22G needles for splinter removal!!
nail clippers
fire starter kit
silver heat blanket
and Shears.
I don't tend to worry about anything for CPR cause if they died in a trauma related accident...their dead no matter what you do. And even if not I'm usually too far out do do them any good.
Oh yeah...I forgot to mention TAPE...lots of it!!!
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
Sep 28, 2003, 12:53 AM
Post #33 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
Pack an EMT.. will usually walk on their own so this saves pack weight and is a good belay slave in a pinch 8)
this said once i'm AT certified i'll be almost as qualified as EMT basic just less fun toys and cool wheels. So maybe you want to pack an athletic trainer. Or bring both and listen to the stories
anyway i wouldn't bring my full kit but for the weekend trip coming up
emt shears
pen
penlight
gloves
band aids of lots flavors
gauze
tape.. ooo (i wrapped a present once in prewrap and tape)
prewrap and heel/lace pads in case my invisible crash pad fails me and i tweek my bad ankle
tuff skin.. oo tuff skin would be better then chalk! jk but true
cling wrap and ice bags
probly a few more things i'm forgetting.. but i gg :P
Jake
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 28, 2003, 4:33 AM
Post #34 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
You may have a great idea there. I could send my son to a good first aid training session, then let him carry the meds. He already has to carry the gear and is a great belay slave, but why not add a little more work to his load. Thanks for yet another good idea....my son will love it.
|
|
|
|
|
shut_up_and_climb
Sep 28, 2003, 5:16 AM
Post #35 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 50
|
med bag??? never heard of one of those. i dont think we even have cell to call if we get hurt. i think i keep duct tape somewhere. if you a true redneck you can fix anything with that.
|
|
|
|
|
shaggyj
Sep 28, 2003, 5:52 AM
Post #36 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 170
|
Mine is taped inside of my helmet.... so it's really not a bag per say
* a few Advil
*Tape
*sport goo
*knife
* a small space blanket
|
|
|
|
|
sixter
Sep 28, 2003, 7:17 AM
Post #37 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 25, 2003
Posts: 262
|
In reply to: Rizzuh Wrote: Too cheap to buy Crown Royal???
Too cheap to buy a proper 30 year scotch...that said, I am drinking a 10 year scotch.
Edit: I am enjoying this thread. I should start carrying more than tape. I have a backpackers first aid kit somewhere around here. Also, it is very important to make sure any meds you carry are not out of date, I understand that they lose effectiveness over time.
|
|
|
|
|
freezerfrost
Sep 28, 2003, 3:40 PM
Post #38 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 19, 2002
Posts: 134
|
Distance from a trailhead is the main factor affecting what goes in a first aid kit. So that could mean nothing. Or supplies that include morphine and a suture kit. For 1-3 day trips, the ubiquitous tape plus a few large gauze pads (one petroleum jelly impregnated) works for me. And I often carry moleskin. :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 28, 2003, 3:54 PM
Post #39 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
ShaggJ Wrote:
In reply to: Mine is taped inside of my helmet.... so it's really not a bag per say
Since I started this, I guess I will inventory my bag here. The bag itself is by Eastsport form Walmart, 8x5x3 but lots of little pockets.
2 North Burn Ointment packet
2 Bactine Pain Relieving Cleansing wipe packets
2 Iodine wipes
2 Benzalkinium chloride wipes
a variety of bandaids and gauze pads, assorted sizes and shape, sticky and not.
Small pointy scissors
Gerber Pocket Multitool
Mini-mag flashlight and a couple of fresh batteries.
1 Ace bandage
2 Instant cold compress packs (kinda bulky)
Suction type snake bite kit
1 roll J & J Water proof tape
Q-tips (plain)
Q-tips Treat and Go, Q-tip in a foil pack with an anitbiotic (bacitracin).
Several Advil
2 Smelling Salts (the breakable tubes)
Several Benadryl (fresh, just got new ones last night)
Rubber gloves
1 pack of adhesive pain patches.
Mole skin
2 Sinus Tylenol
4 Gas-ex tabs (for when your partner eats too many beans)
4 Antacids (why be miserable)
4 Anti-diarrhea tabs. (where were you when it hit?)
GPS when we go way out there, Cell phone too.
I use the same little bag for camping, climbing, and backpacking. I know that most of this stuff is for comfort only, cuts, scrapes etc, but I have used most of this stuff at on time or another. So far my medical emergencies have been very minor, and I am not complaining.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Sep 28, 2003, 6:39 PM
Post #41 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
Some bulk guaze, a roll of tape, a sharp knife, a large bottle of Ibuprofen, and the knowledge of how to use these items in a variety of ways; also the ability to recognize when I need help (i.e. Medevac.)
It's really quite amazing how well the body will stabilize itself with minimal outside assistance.
|
|
|
|
|
joeschmoe
Sep 28, 2003, 8:15 PM
Post #42 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2003
Posts: 479
|
since i mostly boulder and my approaches aren't that long, the real med bag stays in the car, but to the rock always goes styptic powder, superglue, tape. if anything worse happens i can always use a t-shirt for gauze in a pinch.
|
|
|
|
|
kimmyt
Sep 29, 2003, 12:24 PM
Post #43 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 4546
|
In reply to: med bag??? never heard of one of those. i dont think we even have cell to call if we get hurt. i think i keep duct tape somewhere. if you a true redneck you can fix anything with that.
Speaking of this...did anyone hear about the guy up in Anchorage that got attacked by a bear and taped his shoulder would up with duct tape before driving himself 30 minutes to a hospital? I guess duct tape does fix everything.
K.
|
|
|
|
|
amojo
Sep 29, 2003, 1:01 PM
Post #44 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2003
Posts: 26
|
I haven't seen anyone mention bringing a space blanket or similar yet. They are so compact & light, there's really no reason to be without one. Sometimes just a few degrees of body heat makes a lot of difference.
|
|
|
|
|
mtnrsq
Sep 29, 2003, 3:41 PM
Post #45 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 30, 2003
Posts: 70
|
[quote="oldeclimber"]mtnsq wrote:
In reply to: using narcotic pain meds is dangerous business if you don't know what you're doing (and are keeping them current) -
In reply to: Would you mind expanding on that comment a bit. Are you talking about tylenol 3 w/codine or something else? And what affect is altered by the age of the med. When is it proper to use a pain killer and what type would you use? And in addition, when is it definately not advised?
Many medications have definite shelf life limits that impact the effectiveness or even safety of the medication in question. Tylenol 3+codeine is pretty benign (it is avail. OTC in many countries). One of my concerns would be the script med you got 3 years ago that the MD won't renew and you're still carrying (and planning to use) the expired med. Proper storage is also a factor as some meds don't like excessive heat. Many prescription pain killers are respiratory depressants and inappropriate use can cause respiratory arrest. Factors such as injury, altitude, AMS/HACE/HAPE, etc. can complicate things making it difficult to judge when or even if you should administer the medication. This understanding/knowledge comes from training and experience. Start with some text references such as Medicine for Mountaineering (Wilkerson) and similar books. Take a WFA or WFR course - you can get some guidance on managing pain for extended periods. I would use Tylenol+codeine w/out too much concern (watch dosage) but would be very careful with stronger meds. I would limit use to situations where the pain is so significant that it hinders/prevents evacuation. I would avoid using them if there are suspected/known head injuries as well.
Someone else gave a nice explanation on the Epi-pen. Make sure you know how it works! I have seen people stick themselves while in the heat of the moment instead of the intended recipient!
|
|
|
|
|
blackmountaineer
Sep 29, 2003, 9:12 PM
Post #46 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 72
|
In reply to: I haven't seen anyone mention bringing a space blanket or similar yet. They are so compact & light, there's really no reason to be without one. Sometimes just a few degrees of body heat makes a lot of difference.
I met a guide who carries one inside his helmet, attached to the top above the suspension straps so he'll have it no matter what. I decided to try it on my next trip.
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
Sep 29, 2003, 9:35 PM
Post #47 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
I don't carry a first aid kit, per se.
I do carry to the crags:
(in the pack)
epi-pen -- This is the only item I carry specifically for first aid, because it cannot be improvised yet serves no other purpose.
two space bags -- useful for first aid, barrier, rain shelter or emergency bivy
two 5mm x 3 ft. x 12" foam pads cut to fit the back panel of the day pack.
---these can be duct-taped side-by-side for one person or victim, or shared with partner during that unplanned bivy, and can also be used for padding for splinting.
small roll of clean (sterile) toilet paper double-bagged in qt. size ziplock with matches & lighter & 2-4 sanitary napkins. The ziplock bags can be used to improvise a barrier, can be used as a pressure wash, and help maintain sterility of the toilet paper and sanitary napkins. The sanitary napkins can make me a hero to my female climbing partners, and make excellent sterile wound dressing.
Several yards of duct tape rolled around outside of 1 liter Nalgene bottle -- Duct tape can be used for anything...
Sport tape -- for protecting hands or first aid purposes
On the harness:
knife
2 prussiks -- for escaping belay, ascending to injured partner, etc.
3 locking carabiners -- One on my chalk bag, one on my scratcher, one holding the prussiks-- for escaping belay and munter-mule systems.
Chalk bag with zipper pouch containing:
Zipka headlamp & 3 extra AAA batteries (Can be used for signaling, testing pupil response, as well as a light source for routefinding),
Small tube containing 10 iodine water purification tablets (can be used to purify water for drinking, to test booty water in abandoned containers, or purify water for first aid purposes),
Two 200mg caffeine tablets,
Small (crack hit size) ziplock containing six Diphenhydramine HCl 25mg (can make sleep possible during an uncomfortable bivy, or as a follow-up treatment for anaphyllactic shock after administration of epinepherine),
Small Bic lighter (fire for warmth, sterilization, signaling.)
Clothing -- can be used as barrier, bandaging and splinting, or wound dressing, prevention of hypothermia.
Rope & slings -- can be used for self-rescue, for insulation, for splinting.
Knee pads and elbow pads -- padding for splinting
We generally carry 2-way family band radios for communication, these radios are equipped with a scan feature that makes it possible to monitor for and contact other radio users who are using other channels. sometimes we carry a cell phone.
Nurse Ratchet and I have discussed emergency response, regularly attend CPR and First aid courses that include lots of scenario practice, and have taken self-rescue classes.
On walls and extended (2-5 week) backcountry trips, I may add other items such as ibuprofen, Straight Arrow Hoof Treatment hand cream, Newskin liquid bandage, safety pins, moleskin, moist towellettes, sewing materials, leatherman, bailing wire, etc. depending on length and duration of stay, remoteness, and size and composition of party.
Being prepared does not necessarily mean taking a bunch of gadgets and drugs. It starts with training, and practice of skills.
"He improvised a backboard by duct-taping his partner to the ledge"
Brutus
|
|
|
|
|
rvega
Sep 29, 2003, 9:50 PM
Post #48 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 421
|
Yes to everything mentioned before...two exceptions.
1) Second Skin for open wounds or nasty blisters
:) 2) Tampons
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 30, 2003, 12:39 AM
Post #49 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
Mtnrsq,
Thanks for the reply on the narcotics issue. I had forgotten about depressing the respiratory function and the possibility of masking other problems. I don't have any such meds in my bag but wanted someone to clarify that point. I do have a few Tylenol 3's but will just keep them for my own sprained ankle. It has been too long since I have attended a first aid course. I need to find one that my son and I can take together, since he is my climging partner. Thanks.
Brutusofwyde,
Thanks for the lesson in space utilization. It sounds like you have minimized the amount of items that you carry while maximizing what you can do with those suppplies. You started me thinking about what I carry, why I carry it, and where I carry it. All very good points.
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Sep 30, 2003, 1:07 AM
Post #50 of 68
(3631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
Brutus your the man!
When I started climbing, I slowly added a bunch of "stuff that your supposed to carry" as I learned about it.
That stuff fell by the wayside as time went by.
Then I started taking my first aid courses and my first aid kit kept getting larger and larger to the point that it filled a toolbox and I stopped carrying it.
Brutus has it about right for what I will carry.
|
|
|
|
|
hawgdrver
Sep 30, 2003, 1:36 AM
Post #51 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 214
|
Deleted
|
|
|
|
|
micahmcguire
Sep 30, 2003, 7:54 PM
Post #52 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 889
|
bosh! whiskey and a red-hot poker!!
|
|
|
|
|
allan_thomson
Sep 30, 2003, 8:55 PM
Post #53 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 596
|
Micro pore tape
Dressing pads
Field dressing (bandage)
Plasters
Scissors
Antisceptic wipes
Rescusi face mask thing.
Loads of rubber gloves (you can never have enough)
Space Blanket
|
|
|
|
|
coclimber26
Sep 30, 2003, 11:22 PM
Post #54 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2002
Posts: 928
|
I usually climb with a pack. and put a small aid bag in it with curlex, tape, a sams splint and a cravat. If I go alpine I usually carry some tylenol, and some diamox, usually 4 x 250mg and some amodium.
|
|
|
|
|
jeffers_mz
Oct 1, 2003, 7:22 PM
Post #55 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 11, 2002
Posts: 357
|
well let's see....haven't unpacked it from my last trip...
duct tape, tictacs, bug spray, four 4x4's, 2 cravats, 1 pair spare contacts in new containers and 1 pair in the standard case, rubber banded together, 5 standard bandaids, 3 chemical handwarmer packs, oops make that five, space blanket, a small piece of a roll of medical tape (how did that get in there?) ziplock (quart), sunscreen,
5 feet of 3mm cord, elastic wrap bandage, iodine tabs, 2 milspec gauze rolls, a roll of Rolaids, a pill bottle with a rubber tourniquet (handiest piece of gear I carry that nobody's mentioned yet) around it, with a quarter roll of Rolaids inside, plus two cough drops, 10 Advils, 4 800mg Motrin, 2 Demerol, one Lorcet, a small rock, and finally, what had appeared at first to be approximately 15 mouse turds but actually turned out to be small pieces of broken plastic.
Because of the sunscreen, Rolaids, cough drops and Tictacs, the whole first aid kit goes in the bear bag at night. Regarding the discussion of the heavy duty painkillers, whoever said it's your job only to stabilize until pro help arrives had it dead on, but that period of time and the needs imposed therein are significantly altered when you solo a lot.
Edit: add one Bic lighter, thought it was the one I had out already, and subtract the rock.
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Oct 2, 2003, 1:48 AM
Post #56 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
Hand warmers, Bic lighter....do you live in Siberia?
We climb naked year round down south.
From the original post......
Do you discuss things to do in the event of a medical emergency with other climbers in your group? Any special rules or procedures that you use or think are important?
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Oct 2, 2003, 2:25 AM
Post #57 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
In reply to: From the original post...... Do you discuss things to do in the event of a medical emergency with other climbers in your group? Any special rules or procedures that you use or think are important?
We don't really discuss things but:
90% of my backcountry climbing partners over the years have had at least a WFR, and half of em have also taken a level 2 or 3 avy course.
Almost all of them have been climbing accident free for ten years or more.
|
|
|
|
|
crazyfool
Oct 2, 2003, 2:42 AM
Post #58 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2003
Posts: 33
|
I just throw the vital stuff in my pack...not for extended trips mind you, or I would make some effort to be more prepared.
tape
painkillers
crazy glue-the shiznit
extra water
energy bars or goo
a knife
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Oct 2, 2003, 3:07 AM
Post #59 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
Speaking as a paramedic with nearly 10 years experience (urban areas, rural areas, flight paramedic, ER work, and other stuff...) I offer the following:
Nothing, but NOTHING beats a cool head and sound logical thought.
All the supplies in the world will do you very little good if you do not know 1) what the problem is, and 2) how to use the supplies.
Brutus has a good list of stuff. Not extensive, not exotic, but damn versatile... good work, sir.
WFR is a decent class. Basic First Aid is, too. Getting an EMT certification is cheap, not very time consuming, and very valuable.
Wilderness medicine in a nutshell:
1. Above all else, make sure the patient has an open airway, so they can breathe.
2. Stop any serious bleeding. This is best done by pressing on the bleeding part firmly.
3. Keep them warm. Blankets, extra clothes, a fire (if you have to, you have to... ecologists be damned.)
4. If it is broken, try to splint is so that it moves as little as possible. Tree branches, hiking poles, slings, ice axes, etc. can all be used for splinting.
5. Get the heck out of wherever you are and get the injured person to a hospital or doctor. Helicopters are great, but not always available... have at least three plans to evacuate if you need to. Be sure you know the local phone number for Search-Rescue, Emergency Medical Services, Park Rangers, Police, etc.
6. Do not get hurt in the process of doing #1-5. You won't do anyone any good if you get hurt, and you'll only complicate the problem.
Y'all be safe out there, please. I'm tired of seeing injured people.
(Edited for a typo...)
|
|
|
|
|
jeffers_mz
Oct 2, 2003, 5:17 AM
Post #60 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 11, 2002
Posts: 357
|
In reply to: Hand warmers, Bic lighter....do you live in Siberia? We climb naked year round down south.
My first aid kit and survival kit are one and the same, but the contents vary depending on where I'm going. Last trip the weather was a pleasant surprise. The last trip, same time of year, to the same place (front range) was two years ago and the surprise went the other way. Sixteen inches of snow.
The warmers are nice for keeping your fingers unfroze on cold rock. I'd guess they would work as heatpacks in a first aid situation, and a fire is always a nice option.
Naked all year, hmmm? Bet the copperheads love that....
:-)
|
|
|
|
|
hops_scout
Oct 2, 2003, 12:05 PM
Post #61 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 51
|
For EMT certification, what are you calling cheap?
|
|
|
|
|
roughster
Oct 2, 2003, 12:07 PM
Post #62 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2002
Posts: 4003
|
Everytime I see this post on the front page I think,
"Whats in your wallet, RRrrrrr!!!!"
:lol:
|
|
|
|
|
static_climber
Oct 8, 2003, 4:15 PM
Post #63 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2003
Posts: 173
|
in my med bag i carry bandaids and ace bandages some goss and a bottle of water and scissors
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Oct 8, 2003, 5:18 PM
Post #64 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
In reply to: For EMT certification, what are you calling cheap?
That's a pretty good deal.
|
|
|
|
|
hops_scout
Oct 8, 2003, 10:41 PM
Post #65 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 51
|
Thanks for the info.
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Oct 9, 2003, 2:38 AM
Post #66 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
Jeffers mz wrote:
In reply to: Naked all year, hmmm? Bet the copperheads love that....
I could think of a few great responses to that one, but it's a family oriented site.....
so I won't.
That was funny. :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Oct 9, 2003, 2:50 AM
Post #67 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
In reply to: For EMT certification, what are you calling cheap?
Eight years ago, I took my basic EMT course in Indiana. Cost me $300 or so.
Much cheaper than the alternative (i.e. not knowing what to do in an emergency situation.)
If you PM me and let me know where you live, I might be able to suggest a few places/local contacts for an EMT course (I know a LOT of people in EMS Education...)
|
|
|
|
|
hishopper
Oct 9, 2003, 3:55 AM
Post #68 of 68
(3607 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 387
|
Looks like I'm the first to say (or admit ) that I carry O2.
I'm sure I'll get trashed for that a few posts from now, but I find it comforting as my only opportunities to climb are with family and close friends. It's a small one, fits right in my Lowe with the rope, and should last for about 20 minutes.
Other than that pretty much the same as everyone else above:
Irrigation (usually betadine), splinting kit, epi, tons of gauze, etc.
Oh yeah, another "overboard" item - a sterno adjustable c-collar (the kind that lays flat until you snap it together).
|
|
|
|
|
|
