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oldeclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 3:02 AM
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Rizzuh Wrote:
Too cheap to buy Crown Royal???
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oldeclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 3:08 AM
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CrackAddict Wrote: In reply to: Signal mirror- handy to have lite metal mirror. |
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hops_scout
Sep 27, 2003, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: Personal use = keep it simple. non-latex exam gloves - the blue thick (6mil(?)) ones
Not positive, but I believe those are nitrile, or something like that.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 27, 2003, 4:39 AM
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In reply to: There also seems to be a split opinion on whether or not to carry an Epi Pen. What is its purpose, and what are the pros and cons of its use? Is the Epi Pen available otc or is this something best left to medical professionals? I was thinking more along the lines of using Benedryl (and a sting stick) for insect bites. Which is the better way to go and is there any problem with benedryl. Or should I just completely wrap the victim in tape, put a stamp on his forehead and mail him to the nearest hospital?
Epi pen is to treat anaphylaxis. Anaphylaxis is a systemic reaction of the entire body, as opposed to localize swelling. Often caused by a reaction to a bee sting. The next major cause is a reaction to some form of drug. The main concern is to prevent the person’s airway from swelling shut. An Epi pen is fast acting and should be supplemented with 50 mg of benedryl (diphenhydramine) which takes 20 to 30 minutes to kick in. Your not likely to hurt someone with benadryl and the main side effect is drowsiness.
(you can often get a needed second dose out of a epi pen)
Epi pens require a doctor’s prescription, (many personal physicians will write you a script for one if you have the knowledge to use it properly).
Downside is they cost $80? And expire after two years.
An over the counter substitute is primatine mist (asthma med). The downside to this is that you cannot use this method after the airway has shut. Use all of it while you are still able to.
An epi pen or inhaler is the #1 potentially lifesaving med you can carry beside glucose.
take a wfr!
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oldeclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 10:59 AM
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Thanks for the explanation. You hear about people having severe reactions to stings all the time. Since I don't have a good relationship with any doctors I will probably stick to carrying benedryl for now. I may just carry a few more in the future. I may also buy a new box since the once I have are most likely out of date.
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dc
Sep 27, 2003, 1:16 PM
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i dont have a med bag...
but i just carry some bandaids and tape and gauze
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emtclimber
Sep 27, 2003, 7:33 PM
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I usually carry
Elastoplast cut-able bandaids
4x4 Gauze
2 rolls 3 inch cling-wrap
one SAM splint
3 triangular bandages
Alcohol & Betadine swabs
4 pairs of latex gloves
Ibuprophen (400mg/ tab)
OTC antihystamines
Paper/ pencil
one 20cc syringe for surface cleaning
2x22G needles for splinter removal!!
nail clippers
fire starter kit
silver heat blanket
and Shears.
I don't tend to worry about anything for CPR cause if they died in a trauma related accident...their dead no matter what you do. And even if not I'm usually too far out do do them any good.
Oh yeah...I forgot to mention TAPE...lots of it!!!
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jakedatc
Sep 28, 2003, 12:53 AM
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Pack an EMT.. will usually walk on their own so this saves pack weight and is a good belay slave in a pinch 8)
this said once i'm AT certified i'll be almost as qualified as EMT basic just less fun toys and cool wheels. So maybe you want to pack an athletic trainer. Or bring both and listen to the stories
anyway i wouldn't bring my full kit but for the weekend trip coming up
emt shears
pen
penlight
gloves
band aids of lots flavors
gauze
tape.. ooo (i wrapped a present once in prewrap and tape)
prewrap and heel/lace pads in case my invisible crash pad fails me and i tweek my bad ankle
tuff skin.. oo tuff skin would be better then chalk! jk but true
cling wrap and ice bags
probly a few more things i'm forgetting.. but i gg :P
Jake
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oldeclimber
Sep 28, 2003, 4:33 AM
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You may have a great idea there. I could send my son to a good first aid training session, then let him carry the meds. He already has to carry the gear and is a great belay slave, but why not add a little more work to his load. Thanks for yet another good idea....my son will love it.
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shut_up_and_climb
Sep 28, 2003, 5:16 AM
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med bag??? never heard of one of those. i dont think we even have cell to call if we get hurt. i think i keep duct tape somewhere. if you a true redneck you can fix anything with that.
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shaggyj
Sep 28, 2003, 5:52 AM
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Mine is taped inside of my helmet.... so it's really not a bag per say
* a few Advil
*Tape
*sport goo
*knife
* a small space blanket
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sixter
Sep 28, 2003, 7:17 AM
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In reply to: Rizzuh Wrote: Too cheap to buy Crown Royal???
Too cheap to buy a proper 30 year scotch...that said, I am drinking a 10 year scotch.
Edit: I am enjoying this thread. I should start carrying more than tape. I have a backpackers first aid kit somewhere around here. Also, it is very important to make sure any meds you carry are not out of date, I understand that they lose effectiveness over time.
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freezerfrost
Sep 28, 2003, 3:40 PM
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Distance from a trailhead is the main factor affecting what goes in a first aid kit. So that could mean nothing. Or supplies that include morphine and a suture kit. For 1-3 day trips, the ubiquitous tape plus a few large gauze pads (one petroleum jelly impregnated) works for me. And I often carry moleskin. :lol:
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oldeclimber
Sep 28, 2003, 3:54 PM
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ShaggJ Wrote:
In reply to: Mine is taped inside of my helmet.... so it's really not a bag per say
Since I started this, I guess I will inventory my bag here. The bag itself is by Eastsport form Walmart, 8x5x3 but lots of little pockets.
2 North Burn Ointment packet
2 Bactine Pain Relieving Cleansing wipe packets
2 Iodine wipes
2 Benzalkinium chloride wipes
a variety of bandaids and gauze pads, assorted sizes and shape, sticky and not.
Small pointy scissors
Gerber Pocket Multitool
Mini-mag flashlight and a couple of fresh batteries.
1 Ace bandage
2 Instant cold compress packs (kinda bulky)
Suction type snake bite kit
1 roll J & J Water proof tape
Q-tips (plain)
Q-tips Treat and Go, Q-tip in a foil pack with an anitbiotic (bacitracin).
Several Advil
2 Smelling Salts (the breakable tubes)
Several Benadryl (fresh, just got new ones last night)
Rubber gloves
1 pack of adhesive pain patches.
Mole skin
2 Sinus Tylenol
4 Gas-ex tabs (for when your partner eats too many beans)
4 Antacids (why be miserable)
4 Anti-diarrhea tabs. (where were you when it hit?)
GPS when we go way out there, Cell phone too.
I use the same little bag for camping, climbing, and backpacking. I know that most of this stuff is for comfort only, cuts, scrapes etc, but I have used most of this stuff at on time or another. So far my medical emergencies have been very minor, and I am not complaining.
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reno
Sep 28, 2003, 6:39 PM
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Some bulk guaze, a roll of tape, a sharp knife, a large bottle of Ibuprofen, and the knowledge of how to use these items in a variety of ways; also the ability to recognize when I need help (i.e. Medevac.)
It's really quite amazing how well the body will stabilize itself with minimal outside assistance.
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joeschmoe
Sep 28, 2003, 8:15 PM
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since i mostly boulder and my approaches aren't that long, the real med bag stays in the car, but to the rock always goes styptic powder, superglue, tape. if anything worse happens i can always use a t-shirt for gauze in a pinch.
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kimmyt
Sep 29, 2003, 12:24 PM
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In reply to: med bag??? never heard of one of those. i dont think we even have cell to call if we get hurt. i think i keep duct tape somewhere. if you a true redneck you can fix anything with that.
Speaking of this...did anyone hear about the guy up in Anchorage that got attacked by a bear and taped his shoulder would up with duct tape before driving himself 30 minutes to a hospital? I guess duct tape does fix everything.
K.
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amojo
Sep 29, 2003, 1:01 PM
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I haven't seen anyone mention bringing a space blanket or similar yet. They are so compact & light, there's really no reason to be without one. Sometimes just a few degrees of body heat makes a lot of difference.
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mtnrsq
Sep 29, 2003, 3:41 PM
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[quote="oldeclimber"]mtnsq wrote:
In reply to: using narcotic pain meds is dangerous business if you don't know what you're doing (and are keeping them current) -
In reply to: Would you mind expanding on that comment a bit. Are you talking about tylenol 3 w/codine or something else? And what affect is altered by the age of the med. When is it proper to use a pain killer and what type would you use? And in addition, when is it definately not advised?
Many medications have definite shelf life limits that impact the effectiveness or even safety of the medication in question. Tylenol 3+codeine is pretty benign (it is avail. OTC in many countries). One of my concerns would be the script med you got 3 years ago that the MD won't renew and you're still carrying (and planning to use) the expired med. Proper storage is also a factor as some meds don't like excessive heat. Many prescription pain killers are respiratory depressants and inappropriate use can cause respiratory arrest. Factors such as injury, altitude, AMS/HACE/HAPE, etc. can complicate things making it difficult to judge when or even if you should administer the medication. This understanding/knowledge comes from training and experience. Start with some text references such as Medicine for Mountaineering (Wilkerson) and similar books. Take a WFA or WFR course - you can get some guidance on managing pain for extended periods. I would use Tylenol+codeine w/out too much concern (watch dosage) but would be very careful with stronger meds. I would limit use to situations where the pain is so significant that it hinders/prevents evacuation. I would avoid using them if there are suspected/known head injuries as well.
Someone else gave a nice explanation on the Epi-pen. Make sure you know how it works! I have seen people stick themselves while in the heat of the moment instead of the intended recipient!
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blackmountaineer
Sep 29, 2003, 9:12 PM
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In reply to: I haven't seen anyone mention bringing a space blanket or similar yet. They are so compact & light, there's really no reason to be without one. Sometimes just a few degrees of body heat makes a lot of difference.
I met a guide who carries one inside his helmet, attached to the top above the suspension straps so he'll have it no matter what. I decided to try it on my next trip.
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brutusofwyde
Sep 29, 2003, 9:35 PM
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I don't carry a first aid kit, per se.
I do carry to the crags:
(in the pack)
epi-pen -- This is the only item I carry specifically for first aid, because it cannot be improvised yet serves no other purpose.
two space bags -- useful for first aid, barrier, rain shelter or emergency bivy
two 5mm x 3 ft. x 12" foam pads cut to fit the back panel of the day pack.
---these can be duct-taped side-by-side for one person or victim, or shared with partner during that unplanned bivy, and can also be used for padding for splinting.
small roll of clean (sterile) toilet paper double-bagged in qt. size ziplock with matches & lighter & 2-4 sanitary napkins. The ziplock bags can be used to improvise a barrier, can be used as a pressure wash, and help maintain sterility of the toilet paper and sanitary napkins. The sanitary napkins can make me a hero to my female climbing partners, and make excellent sterile wound dressing.
Several yards of duct tape rolled around outside of 1 liter Nalgene bottle -- Duct tape can be used for anything...
Sport tape -- for protecting hands or first aid purposes
On the harness:
knife
2 prussiks -- for escaping belay, ascending to injured partner, etc.
3 locking carabiners -- One on my chalk bag, one on my scratcher, one holding the prussiks-- for escaping belay and munter-mule systems.
Chalk bag with zipper pouch containing:
Zipka headlamp & 3 extra AAA batteries (Can be used for signaling, testing pupil response, as well as a light source for routefinding),
Small tube containing 10 iodine water purification tablets (can be used to purify water for drinking, to test booty water in abandoned containers, or purify water for first aid purposes),
Two 200mg caffeine tablets,
Small (crack hit size) ziplock containing six Diphenhydramine HCl 25mg (can make sleep possible during an uncomfortable bivy, or as a follow-up treatment for anaphyllactic shock after administration of epinepherine),
Small Bic lighter (fire for warmth, sterilization, signaling.)
Clothing -- can be used as barrier, bandaging and splinting, or wound dressing, prevention of hypothermia.
Rope & slings -- can be used for self-rescue, for insulation, for splinting.
Knee pads and elbow pads -- padding for splinting
We generally carry 2-way family band radios for communication, these radios are equipped with a scan feature that makes it possible to monitor for and contact other radio users who are using other channels. sometimes we carry a cell phone.
Nurse Ratchet and I have discussed emergency response, regularly attend CPR and First aid courses that include lots of scenario practice, and have taken self-rescue classes.
On walls and extended (2-5 week) backcountry trips, I may add other items such as ibuprofen, Straight Arrow Hoof Treatment hand cream, Newskin liquid bandage, safety pins, moleskin, moist towellettes, sewing materials, leatherman, bailing wire, etc. depending on length and duration of stay, remoteness, and size and composition of party.
Being prepared does not necessarily mean taking a bunch of gadgets and drugs. It starts with training, and practice of skills.
"He improvised a backboard by duct-taping his partner to the ledge"
Brutus
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rvega
Sep 29, 2003, 9:50 PM
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Yes to everything mentioned before...two exceptions.
1) Second Skin for open wounds or nasty blisters
:) 2) Tampons
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oldeclimber
Sep 30, 2003, 12:39 AM
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Mtnrsq,
Thanks for the reply on the narcotics issue. I had forgotten about depressing the respiratory function and the possibility of masking other problems. I don't have any such meds in my bag but wanted someone to clarify that point. I do have a few Tylenol 3's but will just keep them for my own sprained ankle. It has been too long since I have attended a first aid course. I need to find one that my son and I can take together, since he is my climging partner. Thanks.
Brutusofwyde,
Thanks for the lesson in space utilization. It sounds like you have minimized the amount of items that you carry while maximizing what you can do with those suppplies. You started me thinking about what I carry, why I carry it, and where I carry it. All very good points.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 30, 2003, 1:07 AM
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Brutus your the man!
When I started climbing, I slowly added a bunch of "stuff that your supposed to carry" as I learned about it.
That stuff fell by the wayside as time went by.
Then I started taking my first aid courses and my first aid kit kept getting larger and larger to the point that it filled a toolbox and I stopped carrying it.
Brutus has it about right for what I will carry.
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