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winglady
Nov 19, 2003, 2:12 PM
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I see a lot of posts here talking about great 5.12 routes or asking for recommendations in the 5.11 - 5.13 range. To be honest, I only personally know a couple of people who climb at that range.
I suspect that other "intermediate" or "moderate" (or "we're not that good at this, but we sure have a good time") climbers like me are out there on this forum, shy :oops: about asking about great 5.6 or 5.8 climbs because we always read about the harder stuff. There sure are a lot of climbers out there waiting to get on the easier routes when I climb at JTree or closer to home at Eldo.
How about it? Anyone else out there? :?:
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gblauer
Moderator
Nov 19, 2003, 2:18 PM
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I am a very moderate climber:
upto v2/v3 bouldering
5.10+ sport lead
I'll try anything on top rope and generally get to the top...eventually. Best yet was a 5.11+
(Gunks) 5.6 Trad lead.
There...I said it...I am a moderate climber. (Which in no way reflects my ADDICTION/OBSESSION with climbing. I want to quit my day job...)
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rags
Nov 19, 2003, 2:25 PM
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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geezergecko
Nov 19, 2003, 2:45 PM
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Closet? What closet? Plain and simple, I suck. After 3 years, I can still only top rope 5.8... barely. Doing a trad lead of a 5.6 is an epic for me. Dammit, I suck. Still have fun though.
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dredsovrn
Nov 19, 2003, 2:49 PM
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That's me. Love to climb. Perhaps obsessed. Top rope 5.10 (sometimes). Boulder V3 (sometimes), trad lead-haven't done it yet, but I will soon adn I bet a 5.4 has me scared to death.
This is my first year, and I plan to progress, but climibing is what is important to me, not the rating necessarily. Maybe that is something that you say when you can't climb real high ratings, but that is how I feel.
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mother_sheep
Nov 19, 2003, 3:08 PM
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Most days I'm a moderate climber. Other lucky days I fall into the intermediate category. I can lead 5.9 sport and 5.6 trad. But have also TR'd 5.11c/d clean on more than one occasion. It depends on the day for me really. I never know what I'm capable of until I just get out there and do it. It's kind of frustrating sometimes. I haven't even been climbing for 2 years yet and I've done 3 alpine roputes, 1 wall (pretty small one, Touchstone) and been all over the place and I still haven't completely broken into the intermediate range. But I know that in a few years, I'm going to be GREAT! I just have to keep at it and be patient.
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mattdog
Nov 19, 2003, 3:12 PM
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Like everyone else said... I'll top-rope anything. I've even come close to sending a 5.11. I think we should re-evaluate the definitions though:
If you can lead up to 5.9, you're intermediate. If you can lead 5.10 and 5.11, you're advanced. If you can lead 5.12, you're ELITE.
I personally think that 5.10 is pretty good for leading. You can't really get to that level without some experience or pure natural ability.
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phaedrus
Nov 19, 2003, 3:17 PM
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Moderate climber here, and I've got no problem with that. I can comfortably lead .9 sport and just started leading trad, so I'm in the .4-.6 range. On tr, I can do a .10, working towards my .11's. On a good day I can crank out a v2, maybe a v3, but bouldering never been a real big interest to me, I'm much more into being on a rope. I have a great time and learn something about climbing and about myself each and every time I go out, so as long as I continue to grow as a climber and as a person, that's all that really matters to me.
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reno
Nov 19, 2003, 3:19 PM
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I'm happiest when climbing a long, multi-pitch 5.7-.8 route.
Something like Ruper, Rewritten, or Bastille Crack.
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tradpuppy
Nov 19, 2003, 3:23 PM
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Just 10 short years ago, you were doing pretty good to climb 5.8s around here. But the Chatt. area is notorious for numbers chasers. Nowadays, when you tell someone you like to climb 5.6s and 7s, they just give you this little upturned nose and say "oh". Kind of frustrating for a guy like me who's pushing 50. My fave is when one of these younguns says something like, "oh, so-and-so's 70 and he's climbing 5.12s". Clue: those guys are freakin' mutants to begin with!!!111
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lunatixx
Nov 19, 2003, 3:24 PM
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grades aren't what matters.. the other day i was swetting like crazy on a route and still got on top... i was very proud, i tought it was a tough one. blah it was a 5.7 and i usually get 5.7 no problem. then i climbed a 5.9 like it was stairs... pffft i guess it depends on what part on your body is working, muscles, balance or fear.
after each climbs something new is in me. power , streight, rythm.
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pixelguru
Nov 19, 2003, 3:35 PM
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So that's what I am... a "moderate" climber.
All this time, I just thought I was a wuss.
Boulder V3
TR 5.10 gym
sport 5.9
trad 5.5
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cracklover
Nov 19, 2003, 3:44 PM
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Lunatixx is right, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. For example, I'm definitely a "moderate" climber at best when it comes to trad leading. My last trip out west, I was at the edge of my abilities on 5.7 and 5.8 climbs. And even on my home turf back east, two of my proudest leads this year were a 5.8 and a FA of a route that's around 5.7.
But like she said, every climb is a new experience - an opportunity for growth... and FUN!
GO
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sheppe
Nov 19, 2003, 3:55 PM
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I guess I fall into the advanced category. I lead 10d, but I will try anything on a top rope. Hopefully next season I'm going to tick off a few 5.11s. Up until this year, though, the best I had lead was a 10b. I've been climbing for three(ish) years.
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robbovius
Nov 19, 2003, 4:12 PM
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I am absolutely a happy moderate/intermediate! I can get up 50% of the 5.9s I try, have never met a .10 that wouldn't spit me off after 3 moves tops and am happiest toproping 5.6 - 5.8s all day long.
I've never lead anything yet, but there's this 20 foot 5.5 I like to highball and scaaare myself on a couple times a week ;-)
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dingus
Nov 19, 2003, 4:21 PM
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I notice each and every one of you moderate climbers describes the extent of your moderation as numeric expressions, ie. 5.6, 5.9, five dot what EVER!
You are all closet competitors! You still compare yourselves to others, despite your mantles of moderation! You still want to be hardasses, but you're like me and refuse to make the payments!
I am a moderate climber. Numbers cannot express it. Its an attitudinal thing. One person's moderation is another's "excessive risk."
DMT
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shorty
Nov 19, 2003, 4:23 PM
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"Moderate" is an interesting term. When I started climbing, it seemed this referred to 5.7 or 5.8. As I progressed (some people question this ever occurring), 5.9 appeared to be the new benchmark. Once I started chasing bolts, the 5.10's were considered moderate. With recent travels, I've been to areas where the 5.11's are used as a nice way to shake out the morning cobwebs. After being on the couch for 6 months.
With rising standards, I fear that if I ever have the ability to jump on Eldo's "The Naked Edge", it will almost certainly be considered a moderate route! Which means that Longs' "Yellow Wall", Chiefshead's "Bird of Fire" ("It's a clip-up, dude."), and Spearhead's "Spear Me the Details" may all be considered intermediate alpine climbs. Basically I'm doomed to suck forever, so I'd better learn to deal with it pretty soon.
But we moderate climbers don't have to climb garbage routes. We'll leave the spotlight for hardmen/women. And I'll stick to the tried and true classics, justifying my dismal performance to the ailment du jour. ("Dude, this bursitis really limits my dyno from the gaston to the mono!") Bring on the waaahh-mbulance.
I'm assuming this is Diane starting out this thread. The genius in me feels that Charlie probably would go by "wing-gentleman" or "wing-lord" or "wing-man" (as in, "you can be my .... anytime"). If so, long time no see. I think the last time we climbed together was a CMC outing at Jackson Creek Dome many moons ago. Holler, and maybe we can go hack up moderate route -- whatever the rating -- together.
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dingus
Nov 19, 2003, 4:23 PM
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I notice each and every one of you moderate climbers describes the extent of your moderation as numeric expressions, ie. 5.6, 5.9, five dot what EVER!
You are all Closet Competitors! You still compare yourselves to others, despite your mantles of moderation! You still want to be hardasses, but you're like me and refuse to make the payments!
I am a moderate climber. Numbers cannot express it. Its an attitudinal thing. One person's moderation is another's "excessive risk."
DMT
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reno
Nov 19, 2003, 4:26 PM
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In reply to: I notice each and every one of you moderate climbers describes the extent of your moderation as numeric expressions, ie. 5.6, 5.9, five dot what EVER!
Perhaps.
The only reason I look at a number is to make sure I don't inadvertently get myself way in over my head. More of a safety factor than anything else.
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nikegirl
Nov 19, 2003, 4:27 PM
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/raises hand
moderate
ditto to lunatixx
i've been stronger at times shy 11's
that is not of late
and lay off a few weeks, head back and i'm in a
totally different state of climbing.
feels good, no matter what.
it's alll good.
edited: doh
trad forum
um...not lead trad...follow only so far.
(heehee hands just started to sweat)
sucks it's winter.
:D
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holmeslovesguinness
Nov 19, 2003, 4:35 PM
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Pfffft. Moderate Schmoderate. At the end of the day the only thing that matters (besides coming home in one piece) is whether or not you had a good time climbing.
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raindog
Nov 19, 2003, 4:37 PM
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5.4s quiver at the sight of me and cower at the sound of my hexes.
-Jeff
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marshall84
Nov 19, 2003, 4:49 PM
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Hi I'm impressed by all you moderate climbers. I can second 5.6 through 5.8, still don't take the sharp end. The closest I get to 5.10 is the name on the side of the shoes.
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javaguy
Nov 19, 2003, 5:03 PM
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I'm a moderate climber too...my hardest trad lead is 5.8 but the most fun trad lead was rated 5.6. It's easy to forget that the grades are a number that tries to describe how hard the climb is, not how fun it might be.
I'm better than many climbers who climb 5.12 ..even if I fall off at 5.10. Why? Because I have more fun than them. And that is what climbing is all about, having fun :D
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fear
Nov 19, 2003, 5:14 PM
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I always love it when the climbing mags have some article on trad climbing destinations titled "WonderWall area Moderates". Cool, I think, something for us mortals who are tired of reading about fantasy 5.15's and 500 foot 5.10 OW's. But then it's usually all some list of 10a,b,c,d's with maybe a 9X thrown in for a warmup....
I'd be happy and lucky to grovel up a 10a on TR.
I think the "moderate" articles have just become a way for the authors to brag. "Yeah, it's awkward and pumpy for a 10c but there's a decent black alien placement after the first 70 feet".
-Fear
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climbsomething
Nov 19, 2003, 5:28 PM
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Where did you get the impression that this place WASN'T chock full of "moderate" climbers? And, isn't that what makes this site so great? A couple guys may discuss some 5.12 projects now and then, but I always considered rc.com THE preferred place for the "average joe." Very few discussions are dominated by super-strongmen; the moderate climbers have always had a strong voice here. We have our 5.12 and up guys, but 5.7 guys hardly get laughed and booed off the stage around here! Which, again, I always thought was a major appeal of this place...
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brianc
Nov 19, 2003, 6:03 PM
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In reply to: You are all closet competitors! You still compare yourselves to others, despite your mantles of moderation! You still want to be hardasses, but you're like me and refuse to make the payments! I am a moderate climber. Numbers cannot express it. Its an attitudinal thing. One person's moderation is another's "excessive risk."
Yes and no. I'm only interested in numbers inasmuch as being able to climb 5.x opens up the doors to that many more climbs at any particular area.
Red Rocks is a good example. Somewhat slim pickings (esp. for long routes) if you max out at 5.5. Lots more going on if you're solid on 5.8.
As for not willing to make the payments, you're absolutely correct. I defaulted on that loan long ago.
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dingus
Nov 19, 2003, 6:15 PM
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In reply to: I'm only interested in numbers inasmuch as being able to climb 5.x opens up the doors to that many more climbs at any particular area.
I've heard that one a lot. Even said it myself on occasion.
I mostly don't believe it. Or better said, I don't believe it tells the 'rest of the story.' These numbers are too often expressed as a journey. A journey to where?
Higher numbers of course. Most climbers, moderate and convicted competitor alike, express their improvement as a function of charting numbers.
If you have ever referred to a route by its rating... (ie. that TEN over there is good. That 7 up there is classic!), then you too may have succumbed to the numbers race.
Do moderate climbers lose their moderation when they start improving? If I advance beyond 5.4 leads, or 5.9, or 10a or whatever, am I no longer allowed to call myself a moderate climber? Or does moderation have very little to do with the actual number grade one climbs?
On some days I can barely pull a given crack, yet even as I flail away I still consider it a moderate. Some of you might find the crack to be an easy joke, others a penultimate lead achievement. Whether that crack is 5.5 or 10a is beside the point really. Moderation is relative, therefore it cannot be expressed as an absolute.
I know 5.5 and 5.6 pitches that send cold shivers down my spine. Most "moderate climbers" would have trouble with a couple of these leads and even after 30 years of lead climbing will give me pause every time. I could say I 'sent a moderate 5.6' and point you to the thing. I would be doing you a terrible disservice if I did so.
DMT
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joegoesup
Nov 19, 2003, 6:34 PM
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although I used to be a heavy drinker, I am now a moderate climber. 5.8-5.9 sport and 5.4-5.7 trad.
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andypro
Nov 19, 2003, 6:39 PM
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In reply to: Closet? What closet? Plain and simple, I suck. After 3 years, I can still only top rope 5.8... barely. Doing a trad lead of a 5.6 is an epic for me. Dammit, I suck. Still have fun though.
Not directed at geezergecko, just using his post for example...
You guys who say you suck, have all the wrong attitude. You dont suck because you only climb 5.4, your jsut a 5.4 climber. I guaranfriggintee you that your the majority, NOT the minority. It may not seem like it, but ti's true.
And listen to dingus. His attitude is what everyones should be.
I honestly have no idea what I climb. I do know I can climb jsut about anyhting..and heres why:
I hardly ever bring a guidebook. I know where I'm going to climb, I head there, and find soemthing to climb. I have fun. When I get seriously stuck, Theres an easy way past that point. Case: The crux of the last 5.RGDFH I climbed (RGDFH= Really God Damn Friggin Hard, I think I found out later it was somewhere in the 13's) was kicking the aiders off my foot when I got back to the "I think I might actually be able to free this" part. Damn things just wouldn't let go :wink:
And man if I didn't have fun on that one. Tha'ts what it's about.
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traddad
Nov 19, 2003, 6:46 PM
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Tami Knight has a great T-shirt with one of her trade mark rats, old, fat and in glasses, wearing a T-shirt which sez..."I used to be hard"
That's me.
Now I'm just channeling my inner Batso......
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tucsonalex
Nov 19, 2003, 6:49 PM
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I probably fit into the moderate climber category. The moderate climber masses is what keeps out sport alive. Whether or not they will admit to it, I think every climber chases numbers. I'm no different. I'll spray about my latest 5.10 lead until I'm blue in the face and my partners get sick of it and throw rocks at me. Why? Because the send was hard for me and I'm proud of it. So what if my weekend project is a warm-up for the 5.12 hardman? Difficulty is all relative. Moderate climbers kick a$$.
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petsfed
Nov 19, 2003, 6:55 PM
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I can pull some moderates at Vedauwoo, but they're the most sandbagged of all the routes at Vedauwoo (although I know a 5.0 that'll blow your socks off!).
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lunatixx
Nov 19, 2003, 6:56 PM
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i think that numbers are making people go crazy.
i have read too many posts on that subject.
look at the rock. are you scared, happy ,or enthousiastic?
feellings make you go higher. not the grades
when i am scared i focus on my foot work, when i am not, i attemp dynos
when i am happy and secure i get into rythm climbing
when i climb outside i pratice friction...not grades
aabwh! but whatever, (=O_o=)
i am scared that this subject will lead nowhere
whatever whatever.GNNN!
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mreardon
Nov 19, 2003, 6:56 PM
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In reply to: Like everyone else said... I'll top-rope anything. I've even come close to sending a 5.11. I think we should re-evaluate the definitions though: If you can lead up to 5.9, you're intermediate. If you can lead 5.10 and 5.11, you're advanced. If you can lead 5.12, you're ELITE. I personally think that 5.10 is pretty good for leading. You can't really get to that level without some experience or pure natural ability.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "elite" at 5.12, but the original post is right, there tend to not be many people on those lines. However, no matter what level I personally climb at, my funnest times, and personal highlights have always been bragging rights about the hitting the classics - 5.8-5.10 range. This includes an epic on "epinephrine" (5.9 in vegas), "Figures on a Landscape" (5.10b at Josh and the best climb ever in my book), and climbing with my daughter on "White Lightning" (5.7 at josh). It's all good.
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buckyllama
Nov 19, 2003, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: If you have ever referred to a route by its rating... (ie. that TEN over there is good. That 7 up there is classic!), then you too may have succumbed to the numbers race.
This made me realize somthing odd. I tend to remember the names and not the grades of the really classic routes I've done and the grades and not the names of the average routes. I think there is something trancendent about a really great line, such that the grade matters less. I've done classics that were easy for me at the time and some that were hard for me and they all fealt somehow "right". Even when pushing myself to the limit the climbing just seemed to flow and the rock presents all the right puzzles. Less good lines just don't have the same feel and so I might send a great 5.X and yet back off a less good 5.(X-2) on the same day.
In reply to: Do moderate climbers lose their moderation when they start improving? If I advance beyond 5.4 leads, or 5.9, or 10a or whatever, am I no longer allowed to call myself a moderate climber? Or does moderation have very little to do with the actual number grade one climbs?
I agree that "moderate" is a mindset more than anything. And it does have a lot to do with numbers. What I disagree with is that "moderate" climbers are chasing high numbers, but rather that they are using the numbers as an excuse or maybe a reason not to get on various climbs. I've seen people refuse to even attempt a toprope climb that is already set up because they say "It's out of my league".
I think the real thing which distingushes a moderate climber is an unwillingness to push their comfort zone too far. If you are a mutant and naturally can climb 5.13+ practically off the couch, then leading a 5.11d is a very moderate climb for you. On the other hand if you are only capable of climbing 5.8s on toprope on a good day, then leading a 5.8 is really pushing yourself.
I also think that any of us who have been deep into this game for more than about 5 years have gone through moderate and (for lack of better terminology) extreme periods.
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brianc
Nov 19, 2003, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm only interested in numbers inasmuch as being able to climb 5.x opens up the doors to that many more climbs at any particular area. I've heard that one a lot. Even said it myself on occasion. I mostly don't believe it. Or better said, I don't believe it tells the 'rest of the story.' These numbers are too often expressed as a journey. A journey to where?
In reply to: Higher numbers of course. Most climbers, moderate and convicted competitor alike, express their improvement as a function of charting numbers. If you have ever referred to a route by its rating... (ie. that TEN over there is good. That 7 up there is classic!), then you too may have succumbed to the numbers race.
In reply to: I know 5.5 and 5.6 pitches that send cold shivers down my spine. Most "moderate climbers" would have trouble with a couple of these leads and even after 30 years of lead climbing will give me pause every time. I could say I 'sent a moderate 5.6' and point you to the thing. I would be doing you a terrible disservice if I did so.
I like to hearken back now and again to a favorite quote of mine, I think from "Overheard" in Climbing or R&I:
"I climb as hard as anybody. I just do it on easier climbs."
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inflight
Nov 19, 2003, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: I notice each and every one of you moderate climbers describes the extent of your moderation as numeric expressions, ie. 5.6, 5.9, five dot what EVER! You are all closet competitors! You still compare yourselves to others, despite your mantles of moderation! You still want to be hardasses, but you're like me and refuse to make the payments! I am a moderate climber. Numbers cannot express it. Its an attitudinal thing. One person's moderation is another's "excessive risk." DMT
Dingus is touching on a deeper point, does rating yourself positively impact your climbing or limit your fun? What function does rating yourself have?
I try to stay away from rating myself with such terms although it is helpful to have some descriptor to give out when meeting new partners.
I don't number chase, I climb inspiring lines that take me to racial high places and puts me in cool positions.
I'll climb with anyone in the range of 1st class to A2. What I can't free, I'll AID.
Don't ask me if I am moderate climber. Ask me to go climbing.
Wait, I must be in denial.
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cracklover
Nov 19, 2003, 7:38 PM
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In reply to: I notice each and every one of you moderate climbers describes the extent of your moderation as numeric expressions, ie. 5.6, 5.9, five dot what EVER!
I am a moderate climber. Numbers cannot express it. Its an attitudinal thing. One person's moderation is another's "excessive risk."
DMT
Ooh, ouch! Careful Dingus, that wit of yours is especially sharp today! Okay then, numbers aside, am I a "Moderate" or a SERIOUS climber? I've only been climbing for five years, and my mind is, um, glacially slow. Not the quickest on the uptake, y'know? But I'm getting stronger and more capable every year, and I like that. Will it continue? Ten years from now, if I haven't fallen so hard I can't get up, maybe I'll have an answer for you.
More likely, I'll have forgotten the question.
GO
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vegastradguy
Nov 19, 2003, 8:03 PM
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i love moderate trad routes! although we're working on getting stronger, i still love a good 5.7 multipitch!
on a good day, i can lead prolly 5.8+ trad (maybe 5.9-), .10c sport, .11a TR, and V1 bouldering.
of course, take this all in perspective. these are the numbers i use as a guideline for routes i want to try. i've been on a 5.6 that spit me off like i was nothing, and i've lead a 5.9+ trad route and it was easy! and while i'd love to get to leading 5.10+/5.11- trad one day, its definitely much more important that i have loads of fun and have lots of adventures along the way!
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camhead
Nov 19, 2003, 8:44 PM
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HEY WHO WANTS TO GO DO SOME MODERATES AT INDIAN CREEK!!!!!???!!??1
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hawk233
Nov 19, 2003, 8:50 PM
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I am a moderate climber and love it. 8)
Anybody want to teach me how to climb even more moderate trad?
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dingus
Nov 19, 2003, 8:53 PM
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In reply to: I like to hearken back now and again to a favorite quote of mine, I think from "Overheard" in Climbing or R&I: "I climb as hard as anybody. I just do it on easier climbs."
Nice points.
And I believe that would be Jeff McCoy aka Maddog, of rec.climbing fame, to whom that quote should be attributed.
Cheers
DMT
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antigrav
Nov 19, 2003, 9:35 PM
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In reply to: I notice each and every one of you moderate climbers describes the extent of your moderation as numeric expressions, ie. 5.6, 5.9, five dot what EVER! You are all closet competitors! You still compare yourselves to others, despite your mantles of moderation! You still want to be hardasses, but you're like me and refuse to make the payments! I am a moderate climber. Numbers cannot express it. Its an attitudinal thing. One person's moderation is another's "excessive risk." DMT
Well put. What I really don't get is every moderate climber's need to express disdain of numbers. Why not admit (to oneself) that yes, numbers matters, I am moderate, but God, how I would like to be a bit better! I cannot believe that I'm in a minority when I hate repeatedly falling off a route at my limit, then going for an even harder route immediately after I actually sent the one I fell off of all these times?!
Yes, I admit it, I check out the routes' grades, before I climb them, after I climb them, while reading guides, etc. But I'm still having fun!
Another thing I have problems grok'ing, is the leading thing. Sure, it adds a bit of scariness to a route, but is that why you climb? Well, it doesn't do it for me. Rather, I feel the whole clipping (and fear) thing disrupts the dance upwards, which I enjoy. I would rather ask my belayer to add half a meter of slack to the toprope in order not to get any "help" from it.
But hey, let's just climb the way we find most rewarding!
:D
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jman
Nov 19, 2003, 9:56 PM
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I am a moderate climber, here me roar.
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redpiton
Nov 19, 2003, 10:23 PM
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oh wait... this isn't the homosexual forum? :oops: :lol:
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malabarista
Nov 19, 2003, 11:06 PM
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The only reason I want to climb harder than I do is to climb trad routes that are harder than I can lead safely.
I only climb a route because it seems like it would be fun. Run-out climbs on hard terrain and soloing hold no appeal to me -no matter how cool the routes might be.
It sucks to see an awesome route but not be able to climb it because you lack the ability to crank a few hard moves or do a certain kind of climbing like offwidth.
That is why I'm focused on improving to at least the 5.11 level of trad leading for all types, cracks, face, and offwidth.
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tim
Nov 19, 2003, 11:22 PM
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ayup. I have led up to 5.10 on gear (at Seneca, even!), sometimes confidently, more often not.
I
I'd like to get to the point where I can climb 5.11, maybe falling here and there, maybe grabbing the odd 'French Jug' (A0), but climbing 5.11 on lead, on gear, cause that's what folks say the key for doing walls in a hurry is. I mean, I can get up a 1000' 5.8 in maybe 30 minutes if it plays to my strengths, but I want to feel that way on big, steep routes (eg. walls) and get fast, cause my eventual goal is to drag my ass up Cerro Torre. ("speed is safety" down there, for sure)
I consider myself a very moderate climber. I just want to have enough 'in reserve' to enjoy big beautiful lines in the mountains, without dying on one of them.
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wallwombat
Nov 19, 2003, 11:27 PM
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THE WOMBAT IS OH SO MODERATE.
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winglady
Nov 20, 2003, 12:17 AM
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In reply to: Pfffft. Moderate Schmoderate. At the end of the day the only thing that matters (besides coming home in one piece) is whether or not you had a good time climbing.
Hear, Hear!!! I couldn't agree more.
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coclimber26
Nov 20, 2003, 12:36 AM
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I'm a moderate climber and have confidence leading most moderate routes. but I prefer climbing way below my ability level. I love just moving on easier rock with a steady rhythem and good rock and positions. Some days I have more fun following and not thinking about the things that get in the way of the movement like pro and getting sketched. Somedays I have to lead, it's like an exploration for me, trying to find all those familiar sequences that my body knows and has done so many times before. Climbing at your limit can take away from all the subtleties of the experience like the light, the sound, the position, the rhythum and pace, staying relaxed and the overall experience. Most of all I enjoy my soloist but you can't beat a good day with all your climbing buddies.
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traddad
Nov 20, 2003, 1:23 AM
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All things in moderation.....except moderation :wink:
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brutusofwyde
Nov 20, 2003, 10:08 PM
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In reply to: Pfffft. Moderate Schmoderate. At the end of the day the only thing that matters (besides coming home in one piece) is whether or not you had a good time climbing.
For me, at the end of the day on moderate climbs, the only thing that matters is whether or not I have a flat bivy, and when that incoming storm is going to hit...
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phyreman
Nov 20, 2003, 10:10 PM
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"The greatest climber in the world is the one having the most fun"
I think Alex Lowe said that... I TR a 5.7, flail (but eventually will climb) a 5.8, trad lead a 5.4. It's not all about numbers. I look at route grades mainly as a way of keeping me from getting in over my head on a trad lead.
It's all about that feeling you get when you are on the second or third pitch of a trad route and it's really really exposed and you're 15 feet above your last piece. It doesn't matter to me that some mutant that climbs 5.14 would solo this before breakfast. For me I get hints of sheer terror followed by total exhilaration. THAT is why I climb.
Nate
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charley
Nov 20, 2003, 11:16 PM
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I'm almost a moderate climber. I climb easy climbs. I have fun!!! I could have prolly written Phyreman's post.
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braaaaaaaadley
Nov 20, 2003, 11:29 PM
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I thought I was a moderate climber... untill I began to read this post.
Sport lead up to med. 11's
TR I'll Try anything... hardest yet completed 12a
Trad 5.5-5.7 some 5.5's at seneca suck (beginning of extacy junior)... others are peachy.
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petsfed
Nov 21, 2003, 12:40 AM
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In reply to: HEY WHO WANTS TO GO DO SOME MODERATES AT INDIAN CREEK!!!!!???!!??1
Oooh! Oooh! Me! Me! We can do like 4 routes! Yeah! I'd rather flail on a harder climb in the Creek than wait in line on one of the moderates.
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robmcc
Nov 21, 2003, 12:42 AM
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In reply to: Trad 5.5-5.7 some 5.5's at seneca suck (beginning of extacy junior)... others are peachy.
EJ's 5.4. Or did they change the rating on ANOTHER climb?!?
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gretna
Nov 21, 2003, 1:05 AM
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Back in the summer before i came to school and was in climbing shape, I was sport leading 10's. As far as maxing out, I TR'd the 12a at Birdsboro in PA. Golly geez I was proud of myself. Now i just play rugby and wish i was on rock.
john
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braaaaaaaadley
Nov 21, 2003, 2:48 AM
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Maybe your right petsfed, but that first traverse once you pass the pine tree is kinda sketch only bc there was no pro at all... the rest of it was alright though.
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jagungal
Nov 21, 2003, 3:52 AM
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Wow, I thought I just sucked, but now I realise that I'm...a moderate climber.
I sometimes climb with a guy who used to be a hard man in his youth (5.13 and such). Then he got married and had kids and gained a couple of spare tyres. Now he is miserable on the rock because he can't do what he used to. So I'm a better climber than him...I am useless but I enjoy myself soooo much. :D
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gravical
Nov 21, 2003, 5:09 AM
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I do agree! Hehe...moderate climbers we are! I must add though that I do not really mind the grade for anyone but myself. It is a competition against no one else to see which grades I can push. I sometimes go out and do a few classic easy routes which can prove to be even more fun the hard ones I (eventually) sticked :wink:
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mrme
Nov 21, 2003, 5:14 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Trad 5.5-5.7 some 5.5's at seneca suck (beginning of extacy junior)... others are peachy. EJ's 5.4. Or did they change the rating on ANOTHER climb?!?
don't ya know you can pic your ratings now....just like my onsight of tripple s was really a 5.10 at least not a 5.8 + thats just to wimpy a gradefor that burly climb ' yea my *ss it is' man no move is over 5.8 but i wonder what every other move on that thing is?
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braaaaaaaadley
Nov 21, 2003, 5:25 AM
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Yea, i think it is wrong to have grades that are not consistant. If you just looked at the guidebook for seneca you'd be like oh, this 5.9 sounds fun and then you hop on and end up getting stuck half way up b/c in reality that five nine has 5.11 nrg moves on it. If you think about it, it could get someone killed. There should be a standard rating system that is the same everywhere.
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catbiter
Nov 21, 2003, 6:21 AM
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Whoa! This is great. I've only been climbing for about a year now. My hardest lead was Candy Corner at Seneca. (mid 5 range) You know what, I felt so great after that climb even though I had sewing machine leg about half way up. God I love climbing.
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mrme
Nov 21, 2003, 8:01 AM
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In reply to: Whoa! This is great. I've only been climbing for about a year now. My hardest lead was Candy Corner at Seneca. (mid 5 range) You know what, I felt so great after that climb even though I had sewing machine leg about half way up. God I love climbing.
i have lead that climb twice now and still hate that climb . i would not even have done it the secound time except i got forced to climb up and help out a newbie ... took shoes up to him and had to put them on him there at that really good stance off the right of the crux. nice lead by the way i think it is one of the hard ones.
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mrme
Nov 21, 2003, 8:10 AM
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In reply to: Yea, i think it is wrong to have grades that are not consistant. If you just looked at the guidebook for seneca you'd be like oh, this 5.9 sounds fun and then you hop on and end up getting stuck half way up b/c in reality that five nine has 5.11 nrg moves on it. If you think about it, it could get someone killed. There should be a standard rating system that is the same everywhere.
if you climb it at seneca you can just about go anywhere and climb at that grade. i love that and hope they don't change it...hehehehe.....you have to admit that for the most part grades are pretty acurate .... i mean you can always climb on your home turf were you are used to the rock,or it just fits your style a little better than going somewhere else and climbing at that level i mean at least it is that way for me. i hate it when you go to a area like the new and jump on some pansey *ss climb for its grade and try the next door nabor and get spanked on the same type of climbs...at seneca most the stuff seems right for all the other stuff.
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mrme
Nov 21, 2003, 8:13 AM
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catbiter
you should do skyline traverse i love that climb...
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mrme
Nov 21, 2003, 8:27 AM
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In reply to: Yea, i think it is wrong to have grades that are not consistant. If you just looked at the guidebook for seneca you'd be like oh, this 5.9 sounds fun and then you hop on and end up getting stuck half way up b/c in reality that five nine has 5.11 nrg moves on it. If you think about it, it could get someone killed. There should be a standard rating system that is the same everywhere.
oh i just read my post over and it sounded rude sorry.... :oops:
i do agree with you on the rating thing it would be nice if it was all closer to a standard inbetween all areas ,but it is not so when i go somewhere new i always drop down a few grades to start with . i have seen people sand baged at seneca on a few ocasions. you love it when it is a loud obnocsius spray lord that talks about i did this and that and they pick a climb at there 'limit' and start off that way ... when they start flelling on a sub pare grade that they shoulda onsighted easy and you managed to onsight or redpoint it only the week before. then you fell even better when there team of three start seige attacking it and finally they reduce to some a0 so they can top rope it latter. even after countless people told them hey your first time here you should try a couple grades lower and work up to finde your limit here.... i think i heard a guide talken to them also. i kept my mouth shut i was really wanten to see some awsome climbing. oh well
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freudian
Nov 21, 2003, 3:12 PM
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I've been climbing seriously for two years, but overall 4 years. My climbing schedule is like this:
Summer: twice in the evening after work plus twice on weekends
Winter: 2-3 times a week including weekends
For outdoor climbing I am currently at this level:
TR - 5.10d
Sport - 5.8
Trad - 5.8
I know that If I tried a few times I could do a 5.10b/c on sport lead and a 5.9 on trad, but haven't tried yet. For top rope, I know I could do a 5.11c if it was the right route and I had time to work it.
I am most comfortable leading at 5.7 trad and 5.8 sport... top roping at 5.10a.
Bouldering -- I do some in the gym but there are no set routes, it is just a mix of traversing and making up unmarked problems on a mostly roped-in wall.
I feel I am a moderate climber. N00B would be TR 5.6, Sport 5.6, Trad 5.6, IMO.
I climb mostly for enjoyement and not to push grades.. though pushing grades and succeding is amazingly rewarding.
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timstich
Nov 21, 2003, 11:52 PM
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In reply to: I'm happiest when climbing a long, multi-pitch 5.7-.8 route. Something like Ruper, Rewritten, or Bastille Crack.
I was scarit to lead the 5.7 hand traverse on Rewritten when I got on it for the first time. But after following it and having leading a few 5.8s now, I think *gulp* I could lead it and have a good time. But I definitely prefer to stay around 5.6 - 5.7 for the time being. I'm still trying to streamline gear selection. 5.9 trad leads would overload me at the moment I think, unless you're talking about just aiding. Heh.
But I still gotta say, the rock here in Colorado is way more fun to climb than the granite of Enchanted Rock in Texas. So much nicer...ahhhh. That made all the difference for me. The learning curve back home was just punishing. Foot jams were mandatory and painful. Very few face features exist on the hard splitter cracks. I languished in tepid disinterest for years there.
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