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rockscaler2
Mar 14, 2004, 6:52 AM
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I just moved to Arizona from New Jersey and the route ratings are so much easier then back East...especially in the gyms around Phoenix. Im juist curious as to where they find some of these route setters and the frist ascenters. I was climbing 5.9-5.10 and maybe a 5.11 in the gyms and at the crags back east and that was my limit. Now out here I can scale a 5.10 like its a 5.8 lol kinda funny dont ya think?
Joey
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riceplate
Mar 14, 2004, 7:21 AM
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In reply to: I just moved to Arizona from New Jersey and the route ratings are so much easier then back East...especially in the gyms around Phoenix. Im juist curious as to where they find some of these route setters and the frist ascenters. I was climbing 5.9-5.10 and maybe a 5.11 in the gyms and at the crags back east and that was my limit. Now out here I can scale a 5.10 like its a 5.8 lol kinda funny dont ya think? Joey
just climb and don't worry about it. Ratings are different eveywhere. They aren't soft in the whole west. Go to the VRG and try to blast up a 5.10.
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socalclimber
Mar 14, 2004, 1:08 PM
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I don't climb in AZ, but I can assure you the route ratings here in josh are anything but "weak".
Robert
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fatgirl686
Mar 14, 2004, 2:13 PM
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In general, the ratings out west are not weak. However, Arizona seems to be the exception. In the places I have climbed out here so far (Mt. Lemon, Jacks Canyon, Queen Creek, Sedona), all are seriously soft. In fact, I just did Dr. Rubios Wild Ride in Sedona that is rated 5.9. There is no way the route is any harder than 5.7. But ratings aside, there are a lot of fun routes. Paradise Forks seems to be the most on as far as ratings. However, I was coming back from a weeks worth of climbing at Indian Creek, so it could have felt harder because I was spent.
Joshua Tree ratings are not as hard as people make them out to be. They are harder than many places, I will give you that, but once you learn the tecnique of climbing at Josh it really becomes much easier. I think people say it is so hard because they have not learned the technique for the place and their foot work sucks. Foot work cannot suck to climb hard at Josh.
I climbed back east just a year or two into climbing and found the ratings to be about the same. The gunks seemed a little more difficult to what I was used to, but then again, it was a different climbing style. Once I began to pick up the style, the climbs became easier. Cathedral Ledge ratings seemed just like any other granite climbing area.
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chossmonkey
Mar 14, 2004, 2:52 PM
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Someplaces in the West are a bit soft, but more then likely the ratings in the East are many times (but not always) a bit sandbaged. Seneca is a prime example. They were doing 5.11 there when 5.9 and 5.10 were the limit, but they didn't know it. Consequently they thought these harder routes were 5.9 and 5.10. When they rated the easier routes the ratings reflected the 5.10 rating cap, and many routes never got upgraded as much as they could have been, if at all. Ratings in the gym really don't traslate to outdoors, it's a bit like converting 5.X to V bla, bla, bla. The ratings were originally intended to help a climber find routes that they can do while visiting a new or different area. I find it's more of a problem if the ratings are inconsistent within a given climbing area in relativity to other routes in the same area, than ratings being stiff or soft from state to state. Climb for fun! Not for numbers, unless it's a personal thing to chase them.
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coclimber26
Mar 14, 2004, 2:57 PM
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The only place out west I've found to be weak sofar is at Red Rocks..
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angry
Mar 14, 2004, 2:59 PM
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You need to make that generilization about your particular area, not the enitre west. I'm sure there are some ego easy routes in the east too. It's not fair to compare Devils Tower to Chuckwalla Wall. Your area is soft, BFD, try climbing 13's there.
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drkodos
Mar 14, 2004, 3:24 PM
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In reply to: The only place out west I've found to be weak sofar is at Red Rocks..
I bet you haven't been on any trad routes then.
Try Delicate Sound of Thunder
Wholesome Fullback
Only the Good Die Young
Then get back to me.
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traddad
Mar 14, 2004, 3:42 PM
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Hmmmm...I just had a couple of Gunkies visit me, one of whom has redpointed .13 and they were rather taken aback by some of the .10s at Pinnacle Peak, and loved QC.
Routes iz routes. Sometimes it's not the rating, it's the skill/rock type. What are you good at? I'm a pocket pulling slabbie. I went back to NC and found the routes to be easier than AZ.
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bvb
Mar 14, 2004, 6:10 PM
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get on some of the 5.11'a at woodson, homestyle. then post up and let us know how you did.
weak....heh. heh. heh. the only thing weak out west is your 70 watt intellect.
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dynoguy
Mar 14, 2004, 8:18 PM
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Why don't you come up to Smith and try some 10s :lol: .
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coylec
Mar 14, 2004, 9:46 PM
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another ratings troll.
let's face it, a majority of gym routes (those that aren't set and graded for competition) are usually overrated.
ratings aren't transferable place to place, either. They're barely comparable within the same rock time. My 5.9 is another's 5.7 and another's 5.11, depending on a variety of factors.
ratings are a guide so you don't get in over your head, they are not the measuring stick for your ... well, stick.
bvb - good flame.
coylec
ps - sorry if i'm pissy, i had to move today, rather than climb.
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deleted
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Mar 14, 2004, 10:06 PM
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i can't think of a single place on the east with a rep for soft ratings...but i can think of ten thousand out west...mostly in colorado
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rockscaler2
Mar 15, 2004, 2:07 AM
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Where is Smith? and Josh is the same way by the way......weak again.
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angry
Mar 15, 2004, 2:31 AM
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I have never climbed out east so I'm basing this on eastern climbers out west. I've seen a lot of good climbers from the east get smoked on something below them out west. In the same breath I say that there are a ton of comically easy routes with big grades out here. It dominates the sport scene but is also quite true in the trad arena.
For someone to say that Indian Creek 5.11- is the same as say 11- on Devils Tower, is simply laughable. The creek is far easier, so what, I love the creek, I also love the tower. The ratings in the west are inconsistent, who really cares if they are harder or easier.
Usually the places with the oldest history have the most honest ratings. If people have been climbing there for years, you'll work a little harder at the same "grade" than you would at some new place.
For me, as long as I'm not clipping bolts, I don't care what it's rated. I've taken trips using the book simply as a guide to the cliffs, no #'s, no route names, no beta, nothing. It's pure and it's fun, you should try it.
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steelmonkey
Mar 15, 2004, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: In general, the ratings out west are not weak. However, Arizona seems to be the exception.
Try some of the granite crags around Phoenix instead of the sport areas. Come back and send a few 10's at Granite Mountain in the fall when it's open. Head down to Cochise and tick off a few of the classics (none of that new wave bolted cr*p either). In general, I've found the traditional routes in AZ to be as stiff as anyplace I've been and I've done most of the western hotspots as well as a couple trips to Seneca Rocks.
In reply to: In the places I have climbed out here so far (Mt. Lemon, Jacks Canyon, Queen Creek, Sedona), all are seriously soft.
Lemmon mostly sport climbing. Some of the trad stuff packs a better wallop. Maybe you did some of those or did you go to the Ruins? Lizard Marmalade Direct ring a bell? Mean Mistreater?
Jacks, don't make me laugh. You can't base any information about route ratings in AZ on that indoor gym. It's a well-known ego booster locale.
Queen Creek...also sport climbing and a bit soft in places.
In reply to: In fact, I just did Dr. Rubios Wild Ride in Sedona that is rated 5.9. There is no way the route is any harder than 5.7.
First off, it's Rubo's, not Rubios like the cheesey baja fresh joint. Second of all, I believe the couple-move boulder problem midway through the last (4th) pitch is generally given the crux rating. First pitch is 5.8+ or so, second pitch 5.8 hands, third pitch 5.7 (retrobolted by some gutless wimp). Take a bigger sample and I think you'll find the ratings around Sedona are okay for the most part.
In reply to: Paradise Forks seems to be the most on as far as ratings. However, I was coming back from a weeks worth of climbing at Indian Creek, so it could have felt harder because I was spent.
Are you speculating that the Forks might be soft?
In reply to: Joshua Tree ratings are not as hard as people make them out to be. They are harder than many places, I will give you that, but once you learn the tecnique of climbing at Josh it really becomes much easier.
Hey, we actually agree on something. After climbing on the granite crags around Phoenix, we used to jump a couple of grades when we went to Joshua Tree where there was actually some good friction.
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roc_klimber
Mar 15, 2004, 3:32 AM
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Screw that, man. Just climb the stoopid routes and dont worry about the ratings just have fun
So can you make the same argument about Chris Sharma's Realization?(5.15a)
or Fred Nicoles Dreamtime?(V15)
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mreardon
Mar 15, 2004, 3:37 AM
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You're comparing gym climbs to gym climbs? You're right, the gym climbers in Arizona are way softer than the gym climbers in Kansas, and definitely much softer than the gym climbers I met in Florida. Of course then there was the circus trapeze artist in Tennessee that was pretty soft as well....
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rokshoxbkr19
Mar 15, 2004, 3:42 AM
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it depends on where you climb and when the route was first climbed. Be careful when getting on a climb from say the 70's that is supposed to be a 5.10 . For a while routes were not graded harder than 5.10 no matter how hard they were. I would agree that modern routes are inflated as far as grades go out west
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crazygirl
Mar 15, 2004, 3:43 AM
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In reply to: You're comparing gym climbs to gym climbs? You're right, the gym climbers in Arizona are way softer than the gym climbers in Kansas, and definitely much softer than the gym climbers I met in Florida. Of course then there was the circus trapeze artist in Tennessee that was pretty soft as well....
and how do they stay so soft, do they use hand lotion or fabric softener?
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mreardon
Mar 15, 2004, 3:46 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: You're comparing gym climbs to gym climbs? You're right, the gym climbers in Arizona are way softer than the gym climbers in Kansas, and definitely much softer than the gym climbers I met in Florida. Of course then there was the circus trapeze artist in Tennessee that was pretty soft as well.... and how do they stay so soft, do they use hand lotion or fabric softener?
KY :D
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mungeclimber
Mar 15, 2004, 4:55 AM
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In reply to: I just moved to Arizona from New Jersey and the route ratings are so much easier then back East...especially in the gyms around Phoenix. Im juist curious as to where they find some of these route setters and the frist ascenters. I was climbing 5.9-5.10 and maybe a 5.11 in the gyms and at the crags back east and that was my limit. Now out here I can scale a 5.10 like its a 5.8 lol kinda funny dont ya think? Joey
Gyms don't count. Gyms are soft in my experience. Think lowest common denominator in the gym and you can see why you would get a lowering of the grading system.
Ciao,
Munge
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rmiller
Mar 15, 2004, 5:11 AM
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[quote="steelmonkey"]In reply to: In general, the ratings out west are not weak. However, Arizona seems to be the exception.
In reply to: Try some of the granite crags around Phoenix instead of the sport areas.
Why would fatgirl do that, the granite around Phoenix sucks ass for trad and sport.
In reply to: In the places I have climbed out here so far (Mt. Lemon, Jacks Canyon, Queen Creek, Sedona), all are seriously soft.
In reply to: Lemmon mostly sport climbing. Some of the trad stuff packs a better wallop.
Not much!
In reply to: Jacks, don't make me laugh. You can't base any information about route ratings in AZ on that indoor gym. It's a well-known ego booster locale.
Can't argue there.
In reply to: Queen Creek...also sport climbing and a bit soft in places.
More like plain crap.
In reply to: In fact, I just did Dr. Rubios Wild Ride in Sedona that is rated 5.9. There is no way the route is any harder than 5.7.
In reply to: First off, it's Rubo's, not Rubios like the cheesey baja fresh joint. Second of all, I believe the couple-move boulder problem midway through the last (4th) pitch is generally given the crux rating. First pitch is 5.8+ or so, second pitch 5.8 hands, third pitch 5.7 (retrobolted by some gutless wimp). Take a bigger sample and I think you'll find the ratings around Sedona are okay for the most part.
Nope, I would agree they are soft.
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boltdude
Mar 15, 2004, 5:16 AM
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Route ratings are weak out West because all the climbers are weak out west. The climbing's all easy too, and all low angle. If you come road trip out West, you'll get soft. So the best call for climbing high numbers out east is to not bother road-tripping out west, there are lines on all the climbs out here anyway...
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innominato
Mar 15, 2004, 6:42 AM
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In reply to: Route ratings are weak out West because all the climbers are weak out west. The climbing's all easy too, and all low angle. If you come road trip out West, you'll get soft. So the best call for climbing high numbers out east is to not bother road-tripping out west, there are lines on all the climbs out here anyway...
I was climbing in Eldorado Springs Canyon today--out West--and the ratings felt very strong. I, however, felt very weak. It wasn't a winning combination...for me...but I had fun anyway.
I think Out West is a pretty damn big category, so to categorically state that the ratings out here are softer is basically wrong. Hit up Yosemite, Josh, Eldo, Vedauwoo and the Needles and you'll likely be singing a different tune.
Some of the sport areas might be soft, gradewise, but that can happen anywhere in the country, even back East...I ain't namin' areas. That would be a Red Herring, which is nothing New.
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