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holdplease2
Aug 26, 2004, 9:09 PM
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One question...I know little of what to do on a "nailing" route.
* Pins: Seems like removing the pins you place is best...is it always considered best to do this? Or are there times when it is best to leave it so as not to further damage the rock?
* Heads: If you place a head, is it best to leave it or should it be removed? It seems like heading and then removing heads from a particular placement will ruin the placement quickly...what is the standard here?
Maybe this should be a different thread...up to you mods.
-Kate.
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ricardol
Aug 26, 2004, 9:31 PM
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wow! .
.. thats pretty awesome to hear .. almost makes me want to change my plans and give zodiac another go this september ..
(*almost*)
.. climbing the pitch above peanut without as many bolts (like the orignal route was set) has got to be exhilarating ..
kate:
.. clean your pins .. even though it scars the rock, (if you clean them a certain way, you can create nut placements btw) .. its best not to turn the route into a clip-up..
.. i think that heads are best left in place .. since if you do a bad clean job on the head (ie: break the cable), you could hose the head placement. (of course bring a small punch so you can clean a dead-head if you do break the cable!)
-- ricardo
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epic_ed
Aug 26, 2004, 10:46 PM
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Bryan Law? Ivo? Gabe?
Those guys are sissies. What do they know?
:mrgreen:
Thanks for the update Ammon. Looks like in addition to better training and conditioning for next year, I'm also going to need to bring a lil extra sack.
Ed
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holdplease2
Aug 26, 2004, 11:21 PM
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And in that sack...
Should be beaks and blades and pins and heads....and a stick clip.
And Ed, sorry to say, but I bet that the route will be in about the same condition of fixed ness for you next year as it was before they started cleaning...only no more scary fixed gear...rather bright shiney bombproof fixed gear.
Zodiac and the climbing of it, unfortunately, has a culture that will be hard to change.
-Kate.
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ammon
Aug 26, 2004, 11:34 PM
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In reply to: And Ed, sorry to say, but I bet that the route will be in about the same condition of fixed ness for you next year as it was before they started cleaning...only no more scary fixed gear...rather bright shiney bombproof fixed gear.
That might be true but there will be way less bolts to clip. They chopped three on the first pitch, two on the second and two or three on the third. There were bomber alien placements right next to a few of these bolts.
Unbelievable!!!
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ricardol
Aug 27, 2004, 12:20 AM
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hey!! -- foul!! ..
i made a post that disappeared from the thread .. damm mySQL bugs! ..
.. i'll have to mail tim about it to see if he can find it ..
-- ricardo
[EDITED]: The post did not disapper it was split -- uh well .. now 1/2 my post is out of context on another thread.
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holdplease2
Aug 27, 2004, 12:28 AM
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Ricardo:
Your answer and my question were split off into another topic...as I suggestend in my question might be a good idea.
You can find your response there.
-Kate.
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ricardol
Aug 27, 2004, 12:30 AM
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oh -- thanks ..
.. the admin that did the splitting could have been nice enough to write a msg saying so .. and putting a link to the new thread ..
-- ricardo
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holdplease2
Aug 27, 2004, 12:33 AM
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Well, maybe we could just consider how nice they are for volunteering their time and trying to do a good job and call it even, eh?
-Kate.
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ricardol
Aug 27, 2004, 12:36 AM
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In reply to: Well, maybe we could just consider how nice they are for volunteering their time and trying to do a good job and call it even, eh? -Kate.
.. the admins have my gratitude for doing this job for no pay ..
consider my comment a suggestion ..
-- ricardo
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holdplease2
Aug 27, 2004, 1:16 AM
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Right on,
:)
-Kate.
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epic_ed
Aug 27, 2004, 2:53 AM
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I'll start sending messages when you double my pay. 8^)
I split the topic right after you replied -- thought the fact that the last two post were missing would be a dead give away that it had been split, but...you're right. In the future I'll make the comment that the thread was split in the original thread.
Now, "where's my two dollars?!"
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holdplease2
Aug 27, 2004, 2:57 AM
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Check the back of your g-string, ed. Its got to be there somewhere.
-Kate.
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grippedclimer
Aug 27, 2004, 3:32 AM
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Climbers should go up the Zodiac (all established wall routes in my opinion) with the expectations of no fixed gear. Too much beta takes the "adventure" out of the adventure. Just my two cents which ain't worth much.
grippedclimer
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epic_ed
Aug 27, 2004, 4:22 AM
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In reply to: That might be true but there will be way less bolts to clip. They chopped three on the first pitch, two on the second and two or three on the third. There were bomber alien placements right next to a few of these bolts. Unbelievable!!!
Uh, the only bolts on the first pitch were within the first 30 ft. And I recall clearly that dem were sum mighty blank feet. Any chance they pulled the fatty 3/8 in bolts and simply replaced them with rivets? I know BL did that on the first few moves of Z-M last year. As for the second pitch, the only bolts I recall are the ones after the roof leading up to the sloping ledge. Some of those were kind of close together, so I can see how that got cleaned up. But what about the 3rd pitch? Again, blank as glass in most places. I understand and support the ethic of returning it to the spirit of the first ascent, so I'll if they pulled bolts then there is some other type of fixed gear in place that presents more of a challenge than clipping a draw through a hanger on a shiney bolt. I hope they'll post up with the updates.
Ed
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ricardol
Aug 27, 2004, 4:23 AM
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In reply to: I'll start sending messages when you double my pay. 8^) I split the topic right after you replied -- thought the fact that the last two post were missing would be a dead give away that it had been split, but...you're right. In the future I'll make the comment that the thread was split in the original thread. Now, "where's my two dollars?!"
ed .. i hung your two dollars off at the anchors for pitch 8 of zodiac ..
:-) ...
-- ricardo
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vegastradguy
Aug 27, 2004, 5:48 AM
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although i have no business in this thread, i just have to chime in and say....
ricardo, you are truly an evil man. :evil:
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epic_ed
Aug 27, 2004, 5:55 AM
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In reply to: ed .. i hung your two dollars off at the anchors for pitch 8 of zodiac .. :-) ... -- ricardo
Fokker. Looks Like I'll just have to go get it next year. Although, by P8 I may be looking for a doobie instead.
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holdplease2
Aug 27, 2004, 6:08 AM
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Ed:
Perhaps, if you choose to pay Ricardol back...
you can leave his $2 at pitch 3 of Son of Heart.
-Kate.
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karlbaba
Aug 27, 2004, 6:43 AM
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I have reservations about taking a climb that went clean without serious problems and turning it into a climb where heading and nailing are mandatory. Isn't this beautiful stone going to get more beaten up if that is the case.
Of course, maybe that's not the case so I won't prejudge their work. But having a trade route that doesn't get more hammered than it already is has a value as well.
Peace
karl
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diesel___smoke
Aug 27, 2004, 7:30 AM
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In reply to: .. the admins have my gratitude for doing this job for no pay ..
As a token of my gratitude, it is no longer necessary to edit, delete, or in
anyway alter my post in an effort to lessen your workload...
Aren't I generous?
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epic_ed
Aug 27, 2004, 8:02 AM
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Nope. Cut it out.
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pt
Aug 27, 2004, 12:18 PM
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I've never been on Zodiac, but I do know that a lot of people consider it a good first route on El Cap. I can just see a bunch of big wall newbies pounding iron up there and destroying the route. Once word gets out that you need pins, every one will be placing pins (if they are needed or not).
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dsafanda
Aug 27, 2004, 1:10 PM
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In reply to: I have reservations about taking a climb that went clean with serious problems and turning it into a climb where heading and nailing are mandatory. Isn't this beautiful stone going to get more beaten up if that is the case.
Karl raises a pretty important issue that hopefully those doing the cleaning have at least considered. "Cleaning" the route of mank is one thing. That's a service for which we should all be thankful. "Cleaning" the route in an effort to somehow recreate the route that Charlie Porter had originally climbed in 1972 is quite another. Simply making the route "harder" for the sake of preserving history might very well backfire and simply lead to further destruction of the route. As Karl mentioned Zodiac has been a mostly clean climb for quite some time. The numbers of climbers lining up to climb this route isn't going to change any time soon. What is going to change is that these climbers will now be doing more nailing. It's important and interesting to learn what the route was like in 1972 but just maybe...a more important question may be what is the route going to be like in 2022?
Obviously, it's up to current generation of Yosemite locals and regulars to sort out among themselves. Just playing know it all armchair observer.
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ncclimber
Aug 27, 2004, 1:21 PM
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ricardo is spot on.
When cleaning pins drive them upward then back to horizontal to loosen. Cleaning this way will some day hopefully make a nut or cam placement. Their are times you need to drive pins downward but this sould be avoided if possible.
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