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skinner
Dec 28, 2004, 5:51 AM
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I realize this is a "Gear" question, but wanted to specifically direct it at the Aid/Big Waller's. I value the opinions/experiences of climbers more so then the endless spec's that I have read through until cross-eyed.
I will be needing to replace\add some ropes soon and would be very interested in hearing what some of you are using.
I currently have:
(2) 9.5mm Edelrid Dynamic - 60m
(1) 10.5mm Mammut Dynamic Super Dry- 60m
(1) 11.0mm Blue Water Static - 60m
The 9.5 Edelrid's still have some life left in them.
The Mammut had a front point go through it 20' from the end.
The Blue Water has had it's day, jugging had taken it's toll. It has a bad case of the "Fuzzies".. looks more like 15.0 mm now.
Opinions/experiences; both good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
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epic_ed
Dec 28, 2004, 5:58 AM
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I love my fatty 11mm Yates Big Wall rope. It's basically a Blue Water Enduro with a thicker sheath, and so far it's serverd me two years. My buddy has a Mammut super safe and as you're aware, that's a hell of a rope, too. That was our wall rope before I got the Yates.
Ed
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ricardol
Dec 28, 2004, 5:58 AM
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My big wall rope is a Blue-Water enduro (11mm) (Yates re-branded) ..
.. makes jugging the line over a sharp edge less edgy..
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2004, 6:03 AM
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Well, I have a rope I love.
11 mill ropes are fat, but nice for jugging.
I have a lighter-weight solution which I think handles better.
The mammut supersafe (edge rated, though this is being called into question).
It is a 10.2 with a nice enough 'hand' and reasonable weight so that it can double as your trad rope...and it achieves its smaller diameter by having a super-tough sheath.
The Mammut supersafe triodess is even better. The center has a very obvious center mark (pattern change) and the last 20 feet of each end are also marked with pattern change. When both climbers are into the anchor, with backups, and the rope is fixed for jugging, that can be five knots. The color changes on the ends help you know which knot is a "climber's" knot.
Also, the color change makes it obvious when you are coming to the end of the rope on a rappel and when you are coming to the end of the rope if you are feeding line to yourself or your partner out of a rope bag.
And it isn't a pain to find the ends of the line when the rope is in a pile.
Love my rope. Five walls and it still looks new.
My 2 cents.
-Kate.
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karlbaba
Dec 28, 2004, 7:08 AM
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The long time gold standard in big wall ropes has been the Edelwiess Stratos. More recent introductions of other edgeproof ropes might be as good or better, but I don't have experience wth them.
The Stratos is a bit stiff, but lasts forever
Peace
karl
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lazide
Dec 28, 2004, 7:19 AM
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I just go with a general 10mm dynamic - I mainly solo so my lead line doesn't get much abuse.
Static line however, Sterling HTP static all the way baby! Damn near zero stretch, and wears like cast iron (but still has a decent hand), and not much more expensive. Awesome for hauling and jugging, just don't ever use it where it might get fallen on (would be like falling on a steel cable).
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onelung
Dec 28, 2004, 7:42 AM
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Agreed here with Kate,
My supersafe has been the goods, Yosemite WFLT, and Elcap, France, Spain, Italy, and my homecourt of Hawaii and it is still in superior shape. I would buy another one if needed.
I mean its a great handling rope. I have jugged with 11m Yates big Wall, but when its the middle of the night, youre half drunk, its raining and you have have to take a 50 swing till plum and start jugging, Who cares what size rope youre on, you are so sure youre gonna die anyway!
Alooooha,
bill
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2004, 7:46 AM
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Hey Lazide:
Why does your line get less wear because you solo?
-Kate.
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bringmedeath
Dec 28, 2004, 7:53 AM
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my super safe is worn through
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2004, 7:55 AM
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Wooooo Hoooooooooooo! Takin' that swing with you bill!!!!
I think you should wall climb with my friend, Melissa...she uses a 9.7 sport line on walls, and you're EXTRA sure you're gonna diiiieeee!
-Kate.
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onelung
Dec 28, 2004, 8:01 AM
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Whoops I misspelled it.
When youre swinging, Its " Diiiieeeee!!!!!"
Damn tough to beat that kind of fun!
bill
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epic_ed
Dec 28, 2004, 4:01 PM
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Melissa uses a 9.7!! :shock: That thing has to look like a shoe lace when yer gripped. I'm sure it's plenty safe, but I'm a frail little man, mentally.
BTW -- Yates also make a 10.2mm "Speed Wall" rope that is also a Blue Water Ropes collaboration. Same as the big wall rope with the extra thick sheath and sharp edge rating.
Ed
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lazide
Dec 28, 2004, 4:09 PM
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In reply to: Hey Lazide: Why does your line get less wear because you solo? -Kate.
Since it stays 'fixed' relative to the rock and isn't drug over every sharp edge and protrusion, and I rebelay around the really sharp stuff as well - it makes a real difference. I got way more wear during a weekend at jtree (being extra tripple careful!) than on mescalito. (and there are a couple of really sharp and grainy pitches up there)
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fritzl
Dec 28, 2004, 4:15 PM
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My longtime favorite rope has been the Sterling 10.6, I think the model is called the "Marathon". Mine is 4 walls and many, many jugs old and only now is it getting to be stiff and incorrigable. I'm planning to replace it with one of the same and keep this one as a fixing/TR rope.
F
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the_alpine
Dec 28, 2004, 5:08 PM
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SKinny ropes are actually sweet on walls............until they run over an edge or you're the one jugging it. Ever tried to jug a 9.7? No fun.
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crotch
Dec 28, 2004, 5:38 PM
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Love my Stratos', but when they get fuzzy, they are a bitch to pull through a grigri, and they become just thick enough not to engage a ProTraxion very well.
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2004, 5:49 PM
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Huh, right on Lazide, never realized how different it really is.
Thanks,
-Kate.
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lambone
Dec 28, 2004, 6:32 PM
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my vote is for the Mamut "Supersafe" for a lead line.
and for hauling I like the Sterling 10.5 polyesther ropes, great ropes I wish they made a 9mil.
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climb9876
Dec 28, 2004, 9:20 PM
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I take all the "edge safe" rope claims with a grain of salt. In the test the ropes only have to “survive” one drop over a specific edge, and the device doesn’t allow any slicing motion.
http://www.uiaa.ch/web.test/visual/Safety/UIAA-108%20Sharp%20Edge%20Resistent%20Ropes%20suspended%2007-2004.pdf
If the link doesn’t work go www.uiaa.ch and look for safety standards, the page includes an update on the status of the edge certification.
However, if I were going to buy an edge safe rope I would get the Stratos. If you ever get the chance to examine the core of an old Stratos do so. Once you cut the rope open you'll notice it has what I would call a secondary inner sheath surrounding the core bundles. These are stiff fibers, they feel almost like fishing line, braided around the entire core, or depending on how old the rope is most of the individual core bundles. It sounds strange to describe, but once you see it you'll understand. Anyway, it's my understanding these are what make the Stratos “edge safe”, and to me the whole set up looks pretty burly. I’ve been told the Stratos is currently the only “edge safe” rope with this extra layer of fiber, but who knows if that's still true.
Like I said I don’t think any of the "edge safe" ropes are really edge safe, but if I was concerned about it, I would get a Stratos, only use it wall climbing, and put up with its stiff handling. People who have lots of miles on one, does the hand soften up and if so how long did that take?
In case you’re wondering, I use a Sterling Marathon. It’s not rated edge safe but it has a great hand, it’s easy to handle, and the 10.0mm works well with a Silent Partner (important because so far I haven’t found anyone willing to belay my slow *ss on aid).
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piton
Dec 28, 2004, 9:50 PM
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anyone use a sterling rope. i forget their fat rope. anyone know where i can get a spool?
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climb9876
Dec 28, 2004, 11:02 PM
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Piton,
Online, try Gear Express of Northern Mtn. Depending on where you're located offline a lot of the more technical shops carry Sterling, ask around. The skinner of the two marathons are available in Bi Patterns.
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skinner
Dec 29, 2004, 3:55 PM
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Lots of good information here, greatly appreciated. :D
I should have combined this question, but curious as well if all you Aid/Big Waller's use/prefer 60m ropes?
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dangle
Dec 29, 2004, 4:53 PM
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Brand: I've used Bluewater ropes on over a hundred FAs (wouldn't stick with it if it wasn't superior).
Length: 50 meters is plenty for an aid lead but some climbs sport features that a longer rope can better exploit. Sometimes I've done lightweight wall climbs with only one rope and will go with a 60m or even a 70m just to have some extra if I rap.
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epic_ed
Dec 29, 2004, 5:23 PM
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If you're soloing, it's nice to have a longer rope -- even longer than 60M. The Yates ropes are 65M and that's a nice length to have when you need a little extra to link pitches. You can often link pitches soloing that you wouldn't even consider if you were climbing with a partner because rope drag isn't a factor. The trade off, of course, is the added weight.
Ed
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lambone
Dec 29, 2004, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: Brand: I've used Bluewater ropes on over a hundred FAs
[insert chestbeat soundeffects now]
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dangle
Dec 29, 2004, 8:06 PM
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A few points for lambone:
This year R&I asked me to number my FAs.
Many of the people I've climbed with have SOLD their endorsements.
Bluewater has never given me rope conditional upon my saying positive things about it nor have they given me money.
The rope's performance exceeded my hopes.
When a person has payed their dues their word has enhanced value.
I like most climbers and wished them to benefit from what little I could offer.
Ron Olevsky
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lambone
Dec 29, 2004, 8:45 PM
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I'm sure blue water ropes are great...
I am just being sarcastic and saying that your comment about the number of FA's you've done makes you sound like a tool. I don't see how it adds anything to the discussion other than boosting your own ego.
Maybe if you had used one rope for those hundred first ascents, then it would say something about the rope. But for all we know you had to retire each rope after each climb...then that doesn't say much about Blue Water ropes at all. Nor do we have any idea what type of ascents they were...could have been 100 new boulder problems in Mississippi for all we know, and the rope sat happily in your pack the whole time.
Maybe you should list your 100 first ascents (numbered of course...to make Rock +Ice Magazine happy), in your user profile?
cheers, happy new year!
Sincerly,
Matt (nobody gives a fvck what my last name is)
oh, and BTW- nobody...I repeat, nobody in there right mind uses 50 meter ropes for Big Wall Climbing, in Yosemite at least. And if they do I am sure they have plenty of stories on when the rope wasn't quite long enough.
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holdplease2
Dec 29, 2004, 9:13 PM
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Well, if the majority of your climbs are FA's, you could climb on a 30 meter rope and be fine.
This is just one way that the perspective of a follower will always be different from the perspective of a leader (FA-ist).
-Kate.
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piton
Dec 29, 2004, 9:21 PM
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i needs deals on a spool of rope. who can hook me up. fat ropes and none of the gym spool sh!t.
thanks
also who on el cap climbs w/ 50m???
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dangle
Dec 29, 2004, 9:29 PM
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Fair enough on some points.
Wall climbing and sandstone can be exceptionally abrasive on some ropes.
I put up the T-bird with Bluewater and used the ropes many more times.
I have put up dozens of sandstone routes with individual Bluewater ropes. The ropes I used on Iron Messiah were used by Barry Ward and me on the FHA of Prodigal Sun.
I could bore you with specifics.
Also note the comment about routes sporting features, but lacking these the rack for 50m of aid tends to inhibit my free climbing enough...
Dinosaur that I am, the last Yosemite wall I did, a new variant on El Cap, was done with 50m ropes.
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glockaroo
Dec 29, 2004, 10:01 PM
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I swear, it seems that The Bird himself could offer aid advice on this forum and get shiite for it. Next thing you know, Ray Jardine will post about his work on cams and someone here will argue with him about it.
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dangle
Dec 29, 2004, 10:58 PM
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Hey glockaroo, thanks.
I think you have hit an important point. Climbers quibbling among themselves are failing to demonstrate the unity needed to avoid handing the land managers the very justifications they need for curtailing access.
Check out my post on cam hooks. Forgot to mention that even hauling a bag can have negative impact.
Uh,....but wasn't this about ropes? So sorry.
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lambone
Dec 29, 2004, 11:34 PM
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whoa, didn't mean to endanger anyones access on this here climbin' forum...sorry :oops:
I guess I should read more R&I more so I'd be aware of who's who in climbing...
no offense meant mister sandstone hardman.
but personaly, I think BW ropes are shite. soft wimpy sheaths that slip, and cores that become dead and flat in multiple places after minimal climbing.
but that's just a noobs (or as Kate says..."a followers") perspective.
again, now going on 6 walls with a Mamut Supersafe with no sign or wear other then the darker color from dirt.
Also have had a pair of Edlewise Stratos for years ow that are still going strong. Same with a Sterling Marathon.
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holdplease2
Dec 29, 2004, 11:44 PM
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Lambone:
I think its more your (seemingly) uncalled for condescending tone to a dude who probably knows whats up, who was simply stating is record for credibility in a post where he offered his opinion that was the problem.
You continue the same tone, even when on the surface you apologize. Why?
Apparently you have climbed some walls on bluewater ropes and have had negative experiences. Thats cool. The fact that you climbed 6 more walls on supersafe ropes and had positive experiences is what gives you your credibility. And stating 6 walls was not "chest beating", it was establishing your credibility.
Anybody know who makes Yates ropes? I don't know and wondered.
-Kate.
Edited to remove lambone's name.
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epic_ed
Dec 29, 2004, 11:51 PM
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Kate -- Blue Water. The 11mm is essentially the Enduro with a thicker sheath (umm, I posted about it on the first page :P ).
Ed
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lambone
Dec 29, 2004, 11:52 PM
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stating 6 walls was not establishing my credibility, it was sating the rope's credibility. huge difference in my opinion.
whatever, I don't need to justify my respones to you. people wanna spray about how tough they are then so-be it, but I will give them crap in jest if I want to.
funny thing how you and Ed were just tearing someone up for doing the same thing just a few days ago.
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lambone
Dec 30, 2004, 1:00 AM
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hey Mike, yeah I have some Roca ice chords, 7.8 I think. I had never heard of the company when I bought them, but have been totaly stoaked since. very similar to the BD/PMI skinny ropes.
never seen the fat Roca ropes in the US.
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holdplease2
Dec 30, 2004, 5:11 AM
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Howdy Mike - Hanging with you guys is probably the best memory of the climb. :)
Lambone: If I recall correctly, Ed and I got on Deerhunter, not for spraying, but for being 1) condescending and 2) giving unnecessary grief/talking down to people who were doing their best to help.
You can give people crap in jest all you want, of course, as long as you are fine with taking crap back when others don't think its that funny. Either way your choice. Maybe I just need to get a sense of humor...probably the case.
Ed: If I hadn't killfiled you, I might have seen it. ;)
Gentlemen, we all just need to get out and climb.
-Kate.
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climb9876
Dec 30, 2004, 10:15 PM
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Dangle/ Ron O,
I had a friend describe to me a top stepping method you demonstrated in the clean walls video. Apparently, you keep your balance in the aiders by putting one leg with a bent knee behind the other or something like that? I was trying it out on my last route, with gear in above me for balance, and I couldn't figure out how it works.
I know this is off the rope topic and I should just by the video, but I've already spent my climbing funds for the next couple of months.
Thanks.
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jliebgott
Jan 1, 2005, 5:15 PM
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I've used the same bi-color 60m PMI dry-treated rope on 4 walls and 100+ trad pitches in Yosemite. It's finally fuzzy-ing up in a few spots but it still handles great and I would buy it again in a second.
One thing I've found w/ the Stratos is that while it is truly indestructable - it handles like a steel wire. Pulling it through a reverso can be painful.
Jason
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bringmedeath
Jan 1, 2005, 7:25 PM
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Nice thread! My supersafe got fucked when I ran it over a mossy slab that when I ascended on it... well it ate it up! Luckly I can cut 10 feet off and the rope will still be good. Planning on getting a stratos 70m next. But maybe I will look into this Roca...
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skinner
Jan 2, 2005, 7:29 PM
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Really appreciate the opinions and comments from you all, the more the better! Does anyone know if there are any rope manufacturer/dealer reps. on rc.com? I am going to *fondle* some ropes today, I will let you know how I make out :wink:
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stew
Jan 2, 2005, 9:24 PM
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I've read a lot of good things about New England static ropes..they're suppose to be super durable...I haven't haven't had any first hand experience on them however.
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ricardol
Jan 2, 2005, 11:13 PM
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here's my 2 cents
I've used the same 2 ropes on both solo's on el cap that i've done, a Yates 11mm (really a bluewater rebranded rope) and a b;uewwaater 10.x static line.
The lead line is in great shape and only has some minor damage to the sheath in isolated locations where it was running over an edge while jugging .. -- nothing worth worrying about ..
it also has the normal damage you'd see from repeated jugging ..
i'd say that the this rope has several walls left in it...
the haul line is also in great shape .. and will see plenty of more walls ..
.. i guess the point is that it doesn't really matter which rope you buy for a big wall .. get a thick rope so that you dont shit your pants when you jug it.
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justsendingits
Jan 4, 2005, 1:05 AM
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I heard there is a double dry treated rope out there.
Is there such a thing? does it exist?
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climb9876
Jan 5, 2005, 4:37 PM
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Double-Dry is Bluewater's trademark for their specific dry treatment. They claim to dry treat the both the core fibers and the sheath fibers, hence the Double-Dry. Almost all of the other manufacturers use and or promote a similar technology; in someway they all coat their rope's sheath and core fibers.
Mammut, Superdry
Sterling, DryCore
and so on...
In my experience, new dry treated ropes absorb the least moisture but they lose their effectiveness over time. I think the best bet would be to baby your dry rope on the rock and reapply the dry treatment with the Nikwax or other commercial do-it-your-self dry treatment product before each season.
I believe there are other threads about what manufacturer’s dry ropes work the best on this website and neclimbs.
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skinner
Jan 8, 2005, 7:11 AM
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I appreciate hearing your recommendations and opinions both good and bad. I am surprised that it only came down to 5 ropes. Here's a quick summary. (for anyone interested)
How many people recommended a rope, name of rope, and the cost of ropes.
(4) Mammut Super Safe------$239.00 USD
(4) Edelwiess Stratos---------$218.00 USD
(3) Blue-Water/Yates---------$154.00 USD
(2) Sterling Marathon---------$222.00 USD
(1) Spanish Roca--------------$195.00 USD
I went to the local climbing shop and, *fondled* rope for about an hour. Unfortunately they didn't have any of the ones listed above, so I left empty handed. Let me re-phrase that.... I left without a rope! I never leave a climbing shop "empty handed", just with a lighter wallet :wink:
I am going climbing this weekend near Banff, there is a shop there that has both the Blue-Water and the Mammut. After a little more *rope-fondling*, we'll see what I come home with.
I had never heard of "Spanish Roca" before this thread, but they certainly are worth taking a look at, their pricing definitely got my attention!
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lambone
Jan 8, 2005, 7:32 AM
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cool, good luck...
and remember, more than the rope....it's the ropework that counts, you gotta take care of that shit on a wall.
I don't care if it's a steel cable, run it over one bad edge for your partner to jug and it's toast in one pitch...and your partner could be toast as well.
cheers
must be chilly up there, you climbin some ice!?
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skinner
Jan 8, 2005, 8:13 AM
Post #49 of 52
(5547 views)
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Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
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I really appreciate the advice and tips!
In reply to: must be chilly up there, you climbin some ice!?
We're doing some mixed, snow/rock/ice climbing, and as I tell my southern climbing friends.. "But it's a dry cold". :wink:
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lambone
Jan 8, 2005, 8:19 AM
Post #50 of 52
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Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
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nice, be safe out there...hope I have a chance to make it up that way this season...
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strider
Jan 16, 2005, 9:51 AM
Post #51 of 52
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Registered: Apr 9, 2003
Posts: 173
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The 11mm Yeates is $210. The 10.3mm Yeates is $199.
-n
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skinner
Jan 16, 2005, 3:15 PM
Post #52 of 52
(4624 views)
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Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
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Well... umm I didn't just make those prices up. I actually looked around a a bit.
Here is some of the prices I found on Bluewater Ropes;
BlueWater Enduro 11mm x 165' $124.99
BlueWater Enduro 11mm x 165' Dry $149.99
BlueWater Enduro 11mm x 198' $154.99
BlueWater Accelerator 10.5mm x 165' Dry $129.99
BlueWater Accelerator 10.5mm x 165' $99.99
Blue Water Accelerator 10.5mm x 198' $109.99
BlueWater Accelerator 10.5mm x 198' Dry $154.99
BlueWater Accelerator 10.5mm x 198' Dry Bi-Color$169.99
BlueWater Eliminator 10.2 x 165' $99.99
BlueWater Eliminator 10.2 x 198' $119.99
BlueWater Excellence 8.6mm x 60 (half rope) $139.99
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