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clausti
Mar 6, 2006, 12:18 AM
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In reply to: clausti or someone Can you give me the other thread. I don't want to step in anyfarther without being educated. (more talk about gals in photos) MM
In reply to: It's not just who you know (photographer-wise), it's also who you sleep with! Aparently Angie and Lauren are dating 40 year old industry/photographer men. And yes, as I mentioned before, there's been great shots of Lynn, Beth, Steph, and Lisa. That's cause they're all strong enough (physically and mentally) to make sure they don't have booty shots in the mag. They would never lower themselves to boob and crotch shots. And 5.13a is hard, but many women I know have sent at least one (most women in SLC climb 5.13 regularly). V5, not so hard.....
the train wreck
beth rodden as the fucking HAWT-ness:
http://bybee.temp.evolutionstudio.com/...36_Pata_Couple_1.jpg
note: i have EVERY respect for beth rodden, and think she is an amazingly skilled climber [FA of what, .14b?] but she is also droolingly hot. and she lets people take pictures of that. THAT DOES HER NOR ANYONE ELSE A DISSERVICE.
edit: note on beth's name... i think its caldwell now? or rodden-caldwell? anyways, you know what i mean.
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michaelmcguinn
Mar 6, 2006, 12:32 AM
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TANKS.
There were some more photos of that photo shot that were published. I remember that McNamara was just a rain jacket all soaking wet. Sexy (i guess) sure.
Michael
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aimeerose
Mar 7, 2006, 1:53 AM
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BTW, I climb 5.13. There's video of me climbing that grade, but no pics. I'll send you the link if you don't believe me.
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clausti
Mar 7, 2006, 3:52 AM
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In reply to: BTW, I climb 5.13. There's video of me climbing that grade, but no pics. I'll send you the link if you don't believe me.
THIS thread is not about how hard YOU climb.
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aimeerose
Mar 7, 2006, 2:56 PM
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No sh*t this is not a thread about how hard I climb, but I believe you brought it up. Anyways, after posting that last night, I decided that you are just a mean-spirited person. I have said nothing bad about you and look at all the mean things you've said about me. This is the last response I will make to any of your childish name calling and trash talking.
I think that pic of Beth Rodden is wonderful. I've been talking about the poser pics the whole time. If she was climbing V1 or 5.10 all sexy, then it would be lame. Maybe you just don't understand the concept. And that's cause she can climb harder, not because I have any disrespect for those grades. Actually, I like that sexy pic of Beth better; just separate climbing and sexiness all together (other than the climbing gear).
Micheal- climbingfilms.com was my husband's site. Then he got a contract with Urban Climber Magazine to redo it, so now it's at: www.urbanclimbermag.tv
They've rebuilt it and made it a lot better. I think climbingfilms will not be up too much longer. It's a long story.
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macherry
Mar 7, 2006, 3:20 PM
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sorry, i think climbing and sexy can go together. There's nothing sexier than a person involved in a healthy outdoor athletic pursuit.
and the more pics of women in magazines the better. Personally, i don't really like the posed pic of beth and chris, i'd rather see them climbing. Everytime i see that pic i think of some photo spread in outside magazine trying to sell overaged/overweight business men the "outdoor lifestyle". "look you too can go climbing and have a woman like beth hanging off your arm". No disrespect to beth, she looks great, but the pic is definitely set up for marketing.
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clausti
Mar 7, 2006, 4:54 PM
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In reply to: sorry, i think climbing and sexy can go together. There's nothing sexier than a person involved in a healthy outdoor athletic pursuit. and the more pics of women in magazines the better. Personally, i don't really like the posed pic of beth and chris, i'd rather see them climbing. Everytime i see that pic i think of some photo spread in outside magazine trying to sell overaged/overweight business men the "outdoor lifestyle". "look you too can go climbing and have a woman like beth hanging off your arm". No disrespect to beth, she looks great, but the pic is definitely set up for marketing.
I dunno, macherry, I think that picture could just as easily be interpreted as a call to the women that "look what you can have- you can be hot without having 8 lbs of makeup on, you can have a hot man reaching for you even if you're not giving him the time of day." beth isnt even looking at chris in that picture- i dont think in any way she looks like his arm candy which is part of what is so awesome about that shot.
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tavs
Mar 7, 2006, 7:39 PM
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While I've certainly shaken my head and/or rolled my eyes at some ads and other photos in the mags, I just totally disagree with the idea that pictures of strong women climbing easy shit are "lame." I mean, I LOVE looking at a stellar photo of someone strong, and then realizing, "Wow, I could climb that!" Also, some of my favorite photos of myself are of me climbing stuff that's easy for me....They're my "faves" for various reasons--sometimes because of especially compelling lighting or landscape or angle, and sometimes just because I look damn good in them. It doesn't matter at all whether I flashed the problem or route as part of my warmup.
I realize that there are more complicated issues going on with the stars in the mags--we want people to recognize the strength and power of female climbers, we want them to show women climbing hard, but I just don't see any reason to automatically dismiss a good, sexy or otherwise photo because it happens to be "easy." I just want to see GOOD photos--and good can mean a lot of things.
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macherry
Mar 7, 2006, 11:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: sorry, i think climbing and sexy can go together. There's nothing sexier than a person involved in a healthy outdoor athletic pursuit. and the more pics of women in magazines the better. Personally, i don't really like the posed pic of beth and chris, i'd rather see them climbing. Everytime i see that pic i think of some photo spread in outside magazine trying to sell overaged/overweight business men the "outdoor lifestyle". "look you too can go climbing and have a woman like beth hanging off your arm". No disrespect to beth, she looks great, but the pic is definitely set up for marketing. I dunno, macherry, I think that picture could just as easily be interpreted as a call to the women that "look what you can have- you can be hot without having 8 lbs of makeup on, you can have a hot man reaching for you even if you're not giving him the time of day." beth isnt even looking at chris in that picture- i dont think in any way she looks like his arm candy which is part of what is so awesome about that shot.
okay, i'll give you that. interesting, but the picture is somewhat a reversal on the usual pic where the woman's head is cut off.
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iamthewallress
Mar 8, 2006, 12:23 AM
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In reply to: I've been talking about the poser pics the whole time. If she was climbing V1 or 5.10 all sexy, then it would be lame.
You specifically said "booty pics" not poser pics. As in
In reply to: That's cause they're all strong enough (physically and mentally) to make sure they don't have booty shots in the mag. They would never lower themselves to boob and crotch shots.
Perhaps you didn't see the spread-leg photo from down below where you're looking up her shorts at the underside of her bulging boobies. If I'm not looking at a good 50% of her bare booty in the first picture, I don't think I know what a booty is.
Was your point that it's only a booty shot if it's done on moderate rock, but not when it's done in full climbing regalia with grease and make up in a studio? I'm confused.
I think the pictures are a little absurd, but iI also think it's for fun and does nothing to take away from her climbing accomplishments.
The word "poser" implies dishonesty to me.
I'm sure Beth and Angie enjoy the heck out themselves climbing V1's and 5.10's. I'd also bet that even such paltry "moderates" can still be serious heads-up experiences for them in certain contexts. I'd even bet that a pictures of them on V1's or 5.10s is probably at least as good of a reflection of who they are and how they might enjoy climbing on any given day a as picture of you on a 5.13.
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aimeerose
Mar 8, 2006, 3:18 PM
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Um, did anyone happen to notice the context of those photos of Beth? They're on an artists website. They are art, not just trying to sell shoes, etc to boys. I didn't see any of those shots of her in any climbing mag ever, not even to sell sportiva shoes.
Also, just to bring the thread back to the whole point- Do we ever see sexy shots of men on easy problems/climbs? Pretty much every shot you see in the mags of men are on hard climbs and the focus is on the climb, not on the man's body. If we want this to be a less male dominated sport and have women be seen equally, we should have equal pics of both sexes.
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lhwang
Mar 8, 2006, 4:41 PM
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In reply to: Are they appropriate, are women being used, do you care, do you like them, do they (OMG) empower women or just use women as marketing objects? Perhaps a combination....of all these.
Not sure if I'll regret this but going back to the original post... women are choosing to pose in these shots, and I believe part of feminism is about supporting women in their choices. Other women may not make the same choices as you would, but what's important is that they have that right to choose and are not judged for their choices. I think it's also important to accept that other people may have different opinions, and that they should be respected for that instead of called names (but yeah, I would be a hypocrite if I didn't mention that there have been times in this forum when I haven't done this myself).
I can't help feeling like some of the posters in this thread are debating apples and oranges. "Sexiness" has a very subjective and free-flowing definition, in my opinion. For some people, it may mean boob and crotch shots. For other people it may mean something completely different. I mean, one person's pornography will be another person's art. Or maybe I should say one person's advertising will be another person's art.
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livvy
Mar 8, 2006, 7:46 PM
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In reply to: Um, did anyone happen to notice the context of those photos of Beth? They're on an artists website. They are art, not just trying to sell shoes, etc to boys. I didn't see any of those shots of her in any climbing mag ever, not even to sell sportiva shoes.
Exactly. The same site has a picture of Roy Jones Jr shirtless holding an enormous...er..."rooster" in front of his crotch so if they are objectifying the athletes they are doing it for both genders.
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jakedatc
Mar 8, 2006, 9:18 PM
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funny.. in this gallery from Climbing of the HP40 triple crown comp.. all the guys are shirtless.. the ladies are dressed for the weather in long sleeves and hats.. but yes.. all magazines focus on girls bodys.. yes that's it.. :roll:
http://climbing.com/photo-video/gallery/triplecrown05/index2.html
http://climbing.com/photo/image/jenfuchengrr/RR8.jpg 11d. sooooo hard all about the route
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aimeerose
Mar 8, 2006, 10:49 PM
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I can't say either one of those images of the men shirtless are sexy or designed to be sexy. The difference is many of the images in magazines of the women are focused on sex, not strength, or pure climbing.
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jakedatc
Mar 9, 2006, 12:29 AM
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so when it's to your benefit it's cut and dry. but when it may be evidence against your claims you're not sure. Got it.
there are PLENTY of "i'm a strong powerful female" ad's out there.. Lynn hill's north face ad, lisa rands Prana ads, Sterling's Climb like a girl ad and clinics, beths Great Roof sportiva ad..
guy ads on easy stuff.. obe on v7 for boreal in Climbing '02 obe was probly flashing 9+
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macherry
Mar 9, 2006, 12:52 AM
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In reply to: so when it's to your benefit it's cut and dry. but when it may be evidence against your claims you're not sure. Got it. there are PLENTY of "i'm a strong powerful female" ad's out there.. Lynn hill's north face ad, lisa rands Prana ads, Sterling's Climb like a girl ad and clinics, beths Great Roof sportiva ad.. guy ads on easy stuff.. obe on v7 for boreal in Climbing '02 obe was probly flashing 9+
throw in a heidi wirtz ad mountaineering (the north face ad). patagonia always has great photos of stephanie davis and brittany griffiths.
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jakedatc
Mar 9, 2006, 1:35 AM
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exactly. Me thinks that Aimee is just a bit jealous. The other thread seems to confirm this
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unabonger
Mar 9, 2006, 11:27 PM
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In reply to: BTW, I climb 5.13. There's video of me climbing that grade, but no pics. I'll send you the link if you don't believe me.
Sweeet!
By the way, I'm 40 and I have a DAMN NICE camera.
UB
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climbsomething
Mar 11, 2006, 12:13 AM
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The Rodden butt-cheek photo actually appeared in Men's Fitness magazine, accompanying a Q&A with her. But she looks really uncomfortable there, so it's hard to slag her.
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aimeerose
Mar 17, 2006, 11:57 PM
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Ok, maybe I am a bit jealous. It just seems unfair when you go out climbing with a sponsered female climber with her photo team and she's trying to redpoint your warmup route. Seriously, this just happened to me a few months ago. And this person's photo is splashed all over the mags in ads. I really liked her, so I won't mention her name. But, WTF? I guess it's all about who you know. I noticed that as soon as another friend started dating a well known climber, her pic started appearing in the mags as well. Interesting.
Anyways, the females who appear in mags are all plenty strong and it's great that they are there representing the rest of us. I just wish they would insist on pics being taken on routes that are truely representative of their ability, regardless of what they are wearing.
I also want to add, that there are so many sick strong females that I know who don't get mag space: Ana Burgous, Heather Johnson-Smith, Anna Gonzales (who just got a shot in the Mountain Gear catalog- yeah!)
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caughtinside
Mar 18, 2006, 12:31 AM
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In reply to: I also want to add, that there are so many sick strong females that I know who don't get mag space:
Plenty of dudes who don't get it either... but I'd think the person who spends more time with photogs (dating or not) will get in more (more photos, setting up more photo time). Do you really want to drag one with you every time you climb?
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iamthewallress
Mar 18, 2006, 1:23 AM
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In reply to: Anyways, the females who appear in mags are all plenty strong and it's great that they are there representing the rest of us. I just wish they would insist on pics being taken on routes that are truely representative of their ability, regardless of what they are wearing.
It's funny how our values systems as to what is the way to "truely" represent oneself seem to be so different.
I was taught the old-school way that you only say that you are a "5.X climber" if you can do 5.X under a variety of circumstances, across a variety of styles, with good or bad pro, run out or sport-bolted, onsight, most if not all of the time.
After going climbing with may "5.Y climbers" expecting to spend the day on 5.Y's, I've been bummed when what they really meant was that they did 5.Y once under 15 lbs of tension on a top rope on their best day of climbing ever.
I've been concerned for myself that to show a picture of myself or talk about a specific route where the grade was either a fluke or me at my absolute top end would be representing something that I couldn't back up on an average day out climbing. This isn't to say that I'm always "playing it safe" by my own rules and can always resist the urge to spray about a better-than-usual experience, but in general I feel more honest if I try to represent myself with my average accomplishments instead of my best ones.
When I see pictures of people on the really hard routes in the magazines, I do wonder if they ever sent the route, and if they did, how long did it take them and how representative of their general ability was it? Sometimes, the answers are yes, onsight, and very. Sometimes not. I think that there's an honesty of showing people who climb at high levels enjoying lower grade climbs...because we know that they all do...that is absent in at least some of the higher graded climbing.
All of this has nothing to do with their attire for the photo in my mind also. If the only goal of publishing pics of girls in sports bras is to get off climber boys, it's probably short sighted to pose them on V1 as the climber boys will probably get off all the more to a picture of a hot girl on a harder route.
As far as most photographers go, a nice picture (prefereably one that sells well) is probably the most important thing for them.
Being friends with the photographers and magazine editors probably will help you get published...It's all business, and so your network is everything.
It seems to me that it's splitting hairs though for the second tier elites to complain that any one individual really, really deserves press. If Josune B. couldn't get anyone to write up her accomplishments because she didn't know the right people, it would seem pretty horrific. The ladies who are sport climbing more than a full number grade below her on their best days who do get press are all lucky when considered in relation to the top standard of the sport.
When you consider the huge numbers of 5.13 female sport climbers, many of whom desire no sponsorship or photoshoots, there is just not enough ink to give every one of them their 15 minutes Rock and Ice fame on their proudest send. So, other factors like looks, who knows who, who won what comp, who got sponsored by someone who decided to run their pic in the ad, etc., all come into play. The still climb harder than most of us, and we still want to look at them, but we just can't look at them all.
Once you make enough of a name for yourself for any of the above reasons in addition to your climbing, then people will be curious about your latest interests, and certain cults-of-personality exist. For example, Tori Allen continued to get lots of coverage even when she was on hiatus from climbing. People were fascinated by her, and her named helped magazines and manufacturers make money. She also had people working her brand.
So, for the second tier of the sport climbing elite, the question is, do you really want to spend your time working your brand? If you do, then there are no doubt published pictures to be had. Unless, unfortunately, you are especially ugly. And that is the probably the cold, harsh truth.
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