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tradman
Jul 20, 2005, 5:09 PM
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:?:
I don't understand, I'm afraid I'm not american. Why would I fit in at the new york times?
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hangerlessbolt
Jul 20, 2005, 5:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: And I'm not saying that I'm the only one here that knows anything about it. But how much can you say you know, if your only source is the news media? Ha ha ha! No, I've actually seen the "street dogs eating dead bodies out of open sewers" show, endless re-runs of "families locked in their houses and burnt alive" and even managed to catch a late showing of "10-year old children tortured with electrical wire", all live all the time. Know what i think? I think you don't have to be able to smell it to know that it's wrong.
Ah yes…tradman…the quintessential living room quarter back… To judge an event accurately, you have to have all of the facts…not stats…not interpretations of events…but firsthand experience
The fact is, you don’t know shit…but you’ll continue to spray your opinion as though it’s gospel regardless...
You’re a crack up
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tradman
Jul 20, 2005, 5:16 PM
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Yes hangerless, I do have firsthand experience thank you very much. I was in ethopia in 1986 during the border war with somalia, amongst other incidents - oh yeah and you might remember there was a big famine on at the time too.
Believe me, I've got plenty of first fucking hand experience. I wish I had been sitting in my living room, just like you probably are right now, but I wasn't, I was up to my fucking eyeballs in it.
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seabee
Jul 20, 2005, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: I don't think you need to be there to know that this war was wrong from the start!
But you do need to be there to know what's really going on. And opinions from those who haven't mean a lot less than from those who have.
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bobd1953
Jul 20, 2005, 6:02 PM
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In reply to: Weapons of mass destruction... 25,000 dead... It's all bullshit, because you know nothing. I can't tell you what it's really like, and I hope you don't have to experience it. Just don't pretend to have the answers, because you don't. None of us do.
Seabee- you posted this before. Now your telling us you have to be there.
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newbierockstar
Jul 20, 2005, 7:57 PM
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you tell 'em, dookie!! :righton:
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vawwyakr
Jul 20, 2005, 8:02 PM
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In reply to: The U.S. military disputed the findings and said it did not target civilians.
Well of course we're not! We're targeting thier hats. So if you see various civilians (civilians can be combatants too....especially when you're invading someone's country) you shoot at their hats....and if some random automatic weapons fire....or stray missles, or artillery rounds happen to hit the people wearing those hats well sorry I guess that's the price of being on the recieveing end of a US invasion.....it's just we hate those damn damn hats.
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reno
Jul 20, 2005, 10:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: You serve in the military? Or do you just sit and bask in the freedoms they protect and spew forth your protesting? No, I don't.
Didn't think so.
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reno
Jul 20, 2005, 10:32 PM
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In reply to: as much as i stay away from such threads, i just had to wade in. Reno, that is such an old and tired argument to drag out.......... once again. I agree with trad.
OK, so you don't buy the concept of having to walk a mile in someone's shoes before you understand them?
So I could, in theory, say the following, and it's all OK according to your logic, cause I don't have to actually experience it to question it, right?
"Getting an abortion is no big deal."
"Post partum depression is a myth."
"So is PMS."
"What's so hard about being pregnant, anyway?"
"Sexual harassment against women is alright."
"Title IX is a joke."
Want me to continue, Macherry? Or should I keep my mouth shut, cause I don't understand, cause I've never been there?
Waiting.
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bobd1953
Jul 20, 2005, 10:51 PM
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In reply to: Want me to continue, Macherry? Or should I keep my mouth shut, cause I don't understand, cause I've never been there? Waiting.
I'll anwser that...yes. :D
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thegreytradster
Jul 21, 2005, 4:08 AM
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Sadam started a war with Iran, invaded Kuwait, killed an estimated half million of his own countrymen. He's right up there with Stalin, Mao, Hitler or Pol Pot for lethality. One of the primary problems with reconstruction is that no one had any idea how deeply he had traumatized and destroyed the psyche of an entire nation. Iraq truely is a nation that is only slowly recovering from national "post traumatic stress disorder". It wasn't inflicted by us! The claim that things are worse now is absurid on its face. Most of central Africa has a far higher violent death rate as do Detroit and D.C. than Iraq.
The "insurgents" in reality invaders, followers of the homicidal cult of Wahabisim. In reality there are no "insurgents" only invaders and Bathist criminal gangs.
break down of homocide bombers as follows.
Saudis-42%
Syrians-12%
Kuwatis-11%
Other N. African and Asian Sunis the remainder or unidentifiable. (not much left after the bomb vest goes of).
Only a handfull have been known Iraqi including a 14 year old with Downs syndrome his Suni neighbors straped a bomb to, etc. The Iraqi Suni criminal gangs, (tribes , same thing) are also involved in this futile effort to thwart a representative democratic republic. The Mafia didn't give up without a bloody fight for Sicily either. They are mostly the financiers though and show little interest in blowing themselves up for the glory of Alah. They are also vastly out numbered and increasingly unpopular. Any that are interested in a civilized sharing of political power are summarily dispatched by their own bretheren. Two Shia leaders that were involved in writing the new constitution were exicuted by Al Queda yesterday.
The thing I've found incredible is given the level of weapons available, (every household has at least one AK47) and that the old Suni overlords are only 20% of the population, that the Kurds and Shia haven't extracted their revenge for 30 years of slaughter and torture. That fact alone holds great promise for Iraqs future.
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melekzek
Jul 21, 2005, 4:37 AM
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In reply to: The thing I've found incredible is given the level of weapons available, (every household has at least one AK47) and that the old Suni overlords are only 20% of the population, that the Kurds and Shia haven't extracted their revenge for 30 years of slaughter and torture. That fact alone holds great promise for Iraqs future.
so, they have not used the weapons against saddam, yet they are using them against us army, what does it say to you?
although you also think
In reply to: In reality there are no "insurgents" only invaders and Bathist criminal gangs.
ignorance is bliss
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thorne
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Jul 21, 2005, 12:27 PM
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Melekzek,
Perhaps you could shed some light on the nationalities of the insurgent (more aptly labelled terrorists), who regularly ambush our troups and murder innocent Iraqis. How about we look at the last six months of violence.
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tgreene
Jul 21, 2005, 2:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Just don't pretend to have the answers, because you don't. None of us do.You hit the nail on the head. Our leaders invaded Iraq, putting thousands of Americans lives in harm way without a plan or anwsers. Pretty sad. I quess that a good reason why 48 per-cent of Americans don't trust Bush!
Bosnia, Haiti, Iraq, Kosovo, Somalia & Texas... just to name a few!
You must be so proud to be a member of that political party. :?
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vertical_reality
Jul 21, 2005, 2:52 PM
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In reply to: Yet ironically, the previous Democrat led administration had US troops invading & occupying more countries due to seperate non-related skirmishes, than any prior administration in US history. Bosnia, Haiti, Iraq, Kosovo, Somalia & Texas... just to name a few!
But why were they there and did that administration lie about it?
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tgreene
Jul 21, 2005, 3:26 PM
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CIA intel under BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS said there were WMD's in Iraq, and if you'll all remember, Clinton publicly supported Bush's efforts!
As the to rationale behind Clintons invasion of the other countries, I don't believe that anybody really knows, other than "humanitarianism"... :?
Being that the US seems to be so universally hated, I believe that we should lock down our borders, deport everyone w/ a Green card, cancel all Visas, expell the UN and all dignitaries, relinquish all foreign aid, recall 100% of our military forces, halt international air traffic into the US and our territories, and let the rest of the world fend for themselves.... Something tells me that this would not be very popular w/ the rest of the world! 8^)
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hangerlessbolt
Jul 21, 2005, 3:50 PM
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Because all children need a father figure for guidance
Hey Traddie..."Who's your daddy"
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tradman
Jul 21, 2005, 3:59 PM
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Not a weiner like you, hangerless. What, are you here to "call bullshit" on my life again are you? Tell us hangerless, what were you doing for africa in the 80s? Watching Live Aid on your television and demanding that something be done about this terrible situation? Or were you actually there running medical supplies and aid documents around the country with me and mine? Did you go to your fridge and get a nice cold drink after you pledged your $1 by phone, or were you with me packing up to move schoolchildren before the next wave of shelling came down?
Maybe you were there. Maybe you do know what it smells like. I fucking doubt it. But I don't accuse you of being a liar and an armchair quarterback you spineless little shit.
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dookie
Jul 21, 2005, 4:08 PM
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In reply to: but if you insist on playing that ridiculous victim card and looking for sympathy...
In reply to: Tell us hangerless, what were you doing for africa in the 80s? Watching Live Aid on your television and demanding that something be done about this terrible situation? Or were you actually there running medical supplies and aid documents around the country with me and mine? Did you go to your fridge and get a nice cold drink after you pledged your $1 by phone, or were you with me packing up to move schoolchildren before the next wave of shelling came down?
good lord. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Contrary to what you make it look like here, Dave, you are not the only person who has ever seen a war, or places beyond what us lucky folks experience in our daily lives. So don't even try to pretend that because you were in Africa in the 80's you know exactly what's going on and what it's like to be in Iraq today.
And knowing what I do about Hangerless's experiences in the US Marine Corps for which he very honorably served, again I say shut the fuck up and stop making yourself look so goddamn stupid.
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hangerlessbolt
Jul 21, 2005, 4:15 PM
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hahahahahahahaha!!!!
rollingonthefloorlaughingmyfuckingassoff!!
You haven't the slightest clue who you're talking to... do you?!?
USMC '91-'95...take a look at what was going on in the middle east at the time...dumbass...I have the ability to split domes from 500 yards sans scope...with real people throwing real rounds down range in my direction with my demise in mind...so don't try telling me shit about your sob story from the 80's boy
The fact is, the only thing I dog you on is the "preaching" in your posts. Breaking out the soapbox like you know what is best for the world and what it takes to get there.
So fuck you and the white horse you road in on
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tradman
Jul 21, 2005, 4:15 PM
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I'm looking for sympathy - it's not relevant and changes nothing. I'm not the slightest bit interested what you think about my past. Hangerless called me an armchair quarterback and said I had no firsthand experience of war, and he was completely wrong, and entirely disrespectful.
Now is he going to defend himself or is he going to get you to do it? He may have won ten congressional medals and spent 100 years in the marines for all I know, he was still wrong about me, wrong about my experience and what he said was out of order.
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dookie
Jul 21, 2005, 4:22 PM
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In reply to: what he said was out of order.
waaaaa waaaaa waaaaaa
You pulled that shit on someone who served, saying that stating what they had seen was pulling the victim card you ass, then you do it but it's not the same when the finger points at you is it??? :lol:
Just trying to point out your blatent lack of respect when you so obviously expect it outright from others. I don't expect you to kiss hangers or anyone elses ass dave. I expect you to GIVE the respect you EXPECT FROM OTHERS. If you're too blind to see it your worse of a person than I ever thought.
What he said about you was out of order, but you can't admit that you were wrong about him, too, and what he's seen and done.
Take a look in the fucking mirror for once you retard.
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tradman
Jul 21, 2005, 4:25 PM
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I give exactly as much respect as I recieve.
Read the thread - I was prefectly civil to both hanger and seabee until they started up with their armchair quarterback shit.
Am I being disrespectful now? Damn right. I don't treat people with respect if they don't extend it to me. If hangerless doesn't respect my experience, then why should I respect his?
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