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philbox
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Jul 28, 2005, 1:23 AM
Post #126 of 146
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In reply to: Phil- one only Blah blah blah So my question to you is: Why now and for what reasons?
Bob, I`m not here to participate in the debate, my post was like a drive by shooting, all in jest mate.
Mind you I`ve been highly entertained with all the argey bargey chest thumping point making and sometimes unusually long diatribes. Keep it up fellas.
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karlbaba
Jul 28, 2005, 1:44 AM
Post #127 of 146
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Registered: Jul 10, 2002
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In reply to: With farmers being paid NOT to plant these crops, I think the answer is probably closewr than one might think! If you want absolutes ( and I know you do), try contacting either Purdue University, Indiana University, Illiniois University, Iowa State University or Ohio State University... They all have world reknowed Ag Research Centers that are devoted to this very thing, and would be a great source of information. I grew up just off Purdue campus, and know that this research has been a priority for 30+ years!
Ethanol is subsidized in nearly every country that it's used in, and has a low or negative ROEI (Return on Energy Invested) In other words, it takes more energy to make it that you get from it.
And remember the world burns 80 million barrels a day of oil. That's mind boggling. BioDiesel has a better ROEI could be part of the piecemeal solution but isn't scalable to solve the whole problem either.
Countries have figured out that oil is going to be pinched and are jockeying for position.
The dollars has lost 30 percent of it's value against some currencies in recent years but has strengthened against the Euro lately as several European countries failed to ratify the Euro constitution. The market hates uncertainty, which is one reason the Oil Depletion issue has been downplayed.
But don't buy hearsay that oil depletion is a myth. Look into it. Reputable and serious sources have come around to admitting it lately. It's going to be a very intense issue for your kids if not you. Wishful thinking and faith in technology won't change geologic limits or create a technologic solution that scalable to the problem. Do some research on both sides of the question and openly analyze what makes sense.
Natural Gas is predicted to peak about 10 years after oil peaks. Just about all reputable sources that are willing to talk predict a oil peak between now and 20 years from now.
That's not much time when it takes 10 years just to build a nuclear plant, not to mention 3-5 billion dollars. It would take 10,000 of those plants to replace the energy we burn in oil every day. As oil gets shorter, those building costs can even increase, and we're still stuck with radioactive waste for thousands of years.
Peace
Karl
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bobd1953
Jul 28, 2005, 2:06 AM
Post #128 of 146
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In reply to: Bob, I`m not here to participate in the debate, my post was like a drive by shooting, all in jest mate.
Phil-just my way of trying to suck you in. I quess it didn't work.
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reno
Jul 28, 2005, 2:52 AM
Post #129 of 146
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In reply to: Phil- one only need to know that the US embraced Saddam back in the mid-80s and sold him weapons to boot.
Bob:
No, that's not all one needs to know.
This simplifies things greatly, and that's a mistake (simplifying things is a mistake I've made in the past, and you've rightly pointed it out.)
If you consider me to be your friend, and in my time of need, you offer me shelter in your home, and I later abuse that friendship by stealing all your good china and silverware, who is to blame? You, for showing me friendship, or me for abusing that friendship?
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danooguy
Jul 28, 2005, 3:38 AM
Post #130 of 146
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Great thread with many good points on both sides.
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bobd1953
Jul 28, 2005, 5:06 PM
Post #131 of 146
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In reply to: If you consider me to be your friend, and in my time of need, you offer me shelter in your home, and I later abuse that friendship by stealing all your good china and silverware, who is to blame? You, for showing me friendship, or me for abusing that friendship?
Would you consider a mass-murderer your friend?
We knew back then what he was doing (killing) and still gave him weapons.
That just makes us part of the crime...you think???
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reno
Jul 28, 2005, 5:17 PM
Post #132 of 146
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In reply to: Would you consider a mass-murderer your friend? We knew back then what he was doing (killing) and still gave him weapons. That just makes us part of the crime...you think???
Again, you're over simplifying and using poor analogies:
The lable one is given depends greatly on the person giving that label. An accomplished hunter, who takes a lot of game (pick: Deer, elk, etc.) to provide food to the poor and hungry of a town: Mass killer of innocent wildlife, or Modern Day Robin Hood providing for the needy?
The person who euthanizes stray, injured, ill dogs: Killer or Angel of Mercy?
BACK THEN, as you so eloquently put it, "our" collective view of what Sadaam was doing was, AT THE TIME, GIVEN THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME, was "acceptable" in light of the situation... that is, we viewed him as the enemy of our enemy (Iran,) and thus we could -- with a stretch -- view things such that we wanted his country to win. Ergo, we tolerate some distasteful things.
LOOKING BACK, some 20+ years later, was it the right move? Hard to say, but it doesn't appear so. Then too, what if Iraq had not ever managed to slow down Iran? Would we be better off? Don't know, can't call it.
But again... the basic premise is this: You're blaming the US for the things that Sadaam did. Doesn't that strike you as poor judgement?
Hell, by your logic, we created the Holocaust too, because at one point, the US and Germany were allies, and thus Hitler simply MUST be our fault.
Get over it. Move on.
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bobd1953
Jul 28, 2005, 5:48 PM
Post #133 of 146
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In reply to: BACK THEN, as you so eloquently put it, "our" collective view of what Sadaam was doing was, AT THE TIME, GIVEN THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME, was "acceptable" in light of the situation... that is, we viewed him as the enemy of our enemy (Iran,) and thus we could -- with a stretch -- view things such that we wanted his country to win. Ergo, we tolerate some distasteful things.
It is never "acceptable" to kill innocent people!!!!
So killing others for no reasons what-so-ever is just distasteful in your mind?
I have moved on Reno. Unlike you who accepted whatever the US has done as ok...just because it's the US.
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thorne
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Jul 28, 2005, 5:50 PM
Post #134 of 146
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In reply to: Again, you're over simplifying and using poor analogies:
It's what he does. :wink:
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vertical_reality
Jul 28, 2005, 5:52 PM
Post #135 of 146
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In reply to: Hell, by your logic, we created the Holocaust too, because at one point, the US and Germany were allies, and thus Hitler simply MUST be our fault. Get over it. Move on.
Come on Reno, don't accuse him of over simplifing things and making bad comparisions if you are going to do it too.
One simple question... did the US give weapons to Hitler? How would things have been different if we had?
Ther's a slight difference, I hope you can see it.
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bobd1953
Jul 28, 2005, 5:54 PM
Post #136 of 146
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In reply to: Again, you're over simplifying and using poor analogies:
Reno-go back and read your analogies. Best friends, dogs, deer... WTF.
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bobd1953
Jul 28, 2005, 6:00 PM
Post #137 of 146
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In reply to: One simple question... did the US give weapons to Hitler? How would things have been different if we had?
Bush's granddaddy had no problem handing over money to him (Hilter).
Maybe he thought he was going to do some good with it... like feed the poor or put down sick dogs.
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reno
Jul 28, 2005, 7:24 PM
Post #138 of 146
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In reply to: So killing others for no reasons what-so-ever is just distasteful in your mind?
Here again, you're reaching for something that just ain't there, Bob. What I'm saying is that sometimes (hell, frequently) countries must overlook certain acts to accomplish things that are for a longer greater good.
If it was just about ignoring unjustified killing, then I want to see you post that you abhor and denounce William Jefferson Clinton because he ignored the killings in Kosovo, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, and a host of other places.
Can you do that? Can you call it both ways? Or are your rants simply politics, as I suspect?
Thought so.
In reply to: I have moved on Reno. Unlike you who accepted whatever the US has done as ok...just because it's the US.
Yeah, sure. You've moved on. It was so obvious, I missed it.
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tgreene
Jul 28, 2005, 8:26 PM
Post #139 of 146
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In reply to: In reply to: Last time I checked, tankers weren't being flown in from Uranus! Well they certainly aren`t being flown in from my anus. :shock: :wink: :lol: |
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organic
Jul 28, 2005, 8:27 PM
Post #140 of 146
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I keep climbing also!
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philbox
Moderator
Jul 28, 2005, 9:49 PM
Post #141 of 146
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Last time I checked, tankers weren't being flown in from Uranus! Well they certainly aren`t being flown in from my anus. :shock: :wink: :lol: Once the setup is in place, one can always count on Phil to make the delivery! :mrgreen:
Rimshot!!!!!
Actually, I`m not altogether sure what a rimshot is but I keep seeing it in posts, help me out here bro.
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tgreene
Jul 28, 2005, 10:03 PM
Post #142 of 146
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It varies depending upon the thread topic... and the poster! 8^)
In this instance, it's tame... In the "other thread" it's more along the lines of salad tossing! :twisted:
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bobd1953
Jul 28, 2005, 11:38 PM
Post #143 of 146
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In reply to: If it was just about ignoring unjustified killing, then I want to see you post that you abhor and denounce William Jefferson Clinton because he ignored the killings in Kosovo, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, and a host of other places. Can you do that? Can you call it both ways? Or are your rants simply politics, as I suspect? Thought so.
Reno- maybe the air was too thin in the Santa Fe area and you lost a few more brain cells. :D
I didn't agree with a number of issues during the Clinton years so don't go there.
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curt
Jul 29, 2005, 12:00 AM
Post #144 of 146
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In reply to: In reply to: One simple question... did the US give weapons to Hitler? How would things have been different if we had? Bush's granddaddy had no problem handing over money to him (Hilter).
psssst. yo, Bob, you got it exactly backwards. :wink:
Curt
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uberdb
Jul 29, 2005, 10:50 AM
Post #145 of 146
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Registered: Jul 11, 2005
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And IBM had no problems designing "census taking" and "population sorting" machines for Hitler either ...
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bmxer
Jul 29, 2005, 6:07 PM
Post #146 of 146
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Registered: Feb 13, 2005
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yep that's actually true.
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