I don't get it. Why is it you think crime will go up if there ordinary people don't have guns? Because they won't be able to "defend" themselves? You think that if a guy wants to rob someone, he won't if he thinks the ones he is going to rob have a gun? Will he instead just go get a job to pay for the food? If sorry, to me it seems VERY unlikely.
You say the criminals will always have guns, but why do they have guns? Might it be because they know victims also have guns, and therefore it would be a lot more risky to rob someone with eg. a knife than with a gun?

Now, you talk about accidental shootings, but how about those who commit murder in the heat of the moment? If a guy stumbles upon his wife cheating, and there is no gun around, and the guy is a violent freaky type, a severe beating might be a little better than if he had a gun the the next drawer and decides its better to just shoot everyone.

Why is it no pro-gunners ever answer this?
Oh...and sorry for bad grammar and spelling. English is my second language.

the idea is that a criminal who plans to assault someone will pick the easiest target. If a criminal thinks that said target may be armed with a gun, they are likely to pick another target or choose not to assault someone that day. To assume that the criminal is always going to assault someone, is to assume that crime is a constant or that the total amount of crime is not affected by the general law-abiding populace having access to firearms.

Crime may go up if the genpop didn't have access to guns because there are always people who on any given day may or may not commit a crime against a person. They may have low paying jobs, or other sources of income, but may commit a crime if the opportunity presents itself. These are the people who could be deterred by a gun carrying public.

Look up numbers from your most available unbiased source. look for violent crime numbers in Florida and Texas (high profile concealed carry states) or other concealed carry states.

Some of them show a marked decrease in the crime rate around (yes, "some" is not statistically significant). Look at violent crime rates for Australia and South Africa. They show a marked increase in the violent crime rate around the time their strict gun control measures were put in place. (yes... two countries, not the US. No logical conclusion can be firmly deduced, but it's suggestive of a possible outcome)

Sorry... I mentally lumped the two together (accidental shootings and shootings at home). I won't disagree that the mentally unstable (you say violent freaky) type may reach for a gun if it's handy and shoot his cheating wife. I also won't argue that I'd rather be stabbed or beaten than shot, and that without a gun handy he might pick up a knife or bat. However, the violent freaky (mentally unstable) types are the ones that shouldn't have guns. And, in fact, a diagnosed mentally unstable (violent freaky) person is not allowed to legally purchase a handgun in the US.

I can see your point, however living in a country where no one carries guns and with a very low crime rate all my life may have permanently damaged my view on guns, causing me to think they are not a necessary part of daily living anyone needs.
The thought of everyone around me having guns is not a comforting one.

I do also think this has something to do with other things than guns, eg. the social structure of the country. If even the poorest souls have a chance to live decent without having to do crime, there will eventually be less crime (by my logic, and in Denmark it seems to work OK).

And others might very well get even worse. Being used to guns might just cause criminals to take a step up, becoming even more cynic and cold because they know everyone is out to get them and have the means to do it. Therefore they will rather kill first and ask later.

Sorry, I have tried. I can't come up with many numbers of this, that makes much sense. In most cases I find good information, it seems overly simplified and already saturated with conclusions. I know I will be asking for information from the wrong guy here :lol: , but can you please show me some, so that I at least can have a look at the same as you?

Thats very interesting. But when I think about it (obviously with my very biased point of view), I can see how crime would go up for a period of time with recent gun restrictions placed. If the population is used to have guns, and suddenly they are removed, the attitude of the people will not change as fast as the guns are removed. This might cause the effect you were talking about, now the criminals no longer have to take precautions. after some time tho, the criminals may find out it is not such a good idea having guns, because 1: they don't need them anymore. 2: they can easily be arrested now just fro having the gun, its no more legal to carry one.

Hehe, sorry, sometimes I lack words to describe what I mean, I meant mentally unstable. I'm sure you can forgive my simple language. :smile:
In this section, you almost assume all mentally unstable people are automatically stapled "mentally unstable" when they are born. That is not the case i believe, and its a big gray zone with lots of different varieties of mental instabilities. One would have to do something abnormal to be put in the box "mentally unstable", and that thing might be to kill another person with a gun (if there is one :smile:), and then its already too late.

Lastly I want to thank you for keeping the tone this good, though if you think I'm rambling too much say so, because I'm never quite sure :lol:

And hey... I'm not from Scotland!!

That's probably why you're such a sissy that you need a gun to protect yourself from imaginary threats.

:lol:

Ah, that's what I called you. There's a swear filter on here that swaps all the naughty words; it replaces "pu ssy" with "sissy".

Wouldn't want you to feel under-insulted.

:wink:

People sometimes refer to the "gun culture" in the US. We are a country that won it's independance using pretty much just privately owned weapons (and some help from a country (france) that some of us like to make fun of now). Privately owned weapons have become ingrained in the way of living for many Americans.

This is one of those things we may never know which way it would go. The sociologists can theorize all they want on either side of the discussion, but we won't ever know.

I was being sarcastic (though now that I read it again, not very well). There aren't going to be any unbiased sources really. The best you could do would be FBI Uniform Crime Reports http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm They don't go back far enough though.
Any published numbers before 95 are going to be as part of a study on either side of the gun debate. And thus, not raw numbers, but already have conclusions drawn around them.

Yes, but the criminal with a knife will have an advantage over a victim with a knife simply by virtue of it already being drawn). We haven't even discussed the 6 foot 250 pound male attacker against the 5 foot 100 pound female victim. Even with the same knives and both weapons drawn, who has the advantage. That's when people start talking about outlawing knives (like the UK right now).

I think violent freaky was pretty descriptive. I got the point didn't I? :)

And hey... I'm not from Scotland!!

People shouldn't go around with knifes either :smile: In fact, it is already outlawed here in Denmark (7cm or less is allowed), unless you are a boyscout (they tend not to show in the crime statistics) or a hunter. If someone feels threatened pepper spray is in my opinion a better choice than lethal weapons, no permanent harm is done.

Would you feel better little girl, if we was to push em outta windows..?

and your school system??? do ppl really hate school that much??? or is it just convenient because they think children/teenagers are an easy target?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/...americas/5387062.stm

This is simple. First, don't accuse another nation's people of being wackos. On this planet, we are all wackos. Unless, of course, you're some righteous Middle Eastern CULT hellbent on destroying the world because they don't believe in your system or your god or whatever. Then your f*cking wackos. Oh, or Republican. :D

Anyway, the problem as I see it...

... Parents fail, not children.

Bravo, sir. Bravo indeed.

This is simple. First, don't accuse another nation's people of being wackos. On this planet, we are all wackos. Unless, of course, you're some righteous Middle Eastern CULT hellbent on destroying the world because they don't believe in your system or your god or whatever. Then your f*cking wackos. Oh, or Republican. :D

i didnt accuse the people of US of being wackos. i was just wondering why those that are wackos hate you school system so much. i think we can safely conclude that the person who did this thing was not a 'normal' US citizen.

i agree with the rest of your post though.

Nobody talks about the people who use guns to defend themselves or stop crimes.