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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 2:56 AM
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Hi there, I don't have any idea what I would search for to find what I want to know, so I'm going to ask your collective mind.
Can you purchase an locking descender for dual ropes, like the Petzl Stop but for two ropes.
Thats what I'm after...and I don't know if you can get one but I assume this is the best place to ask.
(This post was edited by Asgarin on Dec 29, 2006, 2:57 AM)
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stymingersfink
Dec 29, 2006, 3:02 AM
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Shunt, i believe it's called. takes two ropes, but one must use a belay device above/below it. I think it's more of a backup deal than a descent device.
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 3:07 AM
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I am familiar with the Shunt, although I've never used it, its a back up ascender as far as I recall
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shoo
Dec 29, 2006, 3:14 AM
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The shunt's not a descending device. It's meant as an ascender and a belay/rappel backup.
One method you may want to consider is tying a figure 8 follow through onto your harness on one end of the rope and using a single rope belay device (grigri or whatnot) on the other side of the rope. This works pretty well if your anchor is made so that friction won't harm it (i.e. rope through a biner/rappel ring or two), but is pretty much a death wish if you put it straight through webbing or other rope.
(This post was edited by shoo on Dec 29, 2006, 3:15 AM)
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 3:18 AM
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Hmm ok, well what I want to do is abseil off things by just looping the rope over poles, handrails &ect and descend without leaving any gear up where I was before.
Admittadly I don't know that much about whats available to me, but using both sides of the rope on an ATC is all I can think of using, but an ATC doesn't lock.
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 3:30 AM
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shoo wrote: The shunt's not a descending device. It's meant as an ascender and a belay/rappel backup. One method you may want to consider is tying a figure 8 follow through onto your harness on one end of the rope and using a single rope belay device (grigri or whatnot) on the other side of the rope. This works pretty well if your anchor is made so that friction won't harm it (i.e. rope through a biner/rappel ring or two), but is pretty much a death wish if you put it straight through webbing or other rope.
I had to think about it for a while, but I understand what you mean now, that would work, but im still wondering if anyone makes something like the Petzl Stop for 2 ropes x.x
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shoo
Dec 29, 2006, 3:37 AM
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Much better idea is using an ATC or other two rope method (figure 8, munter hitch, whatever) and back it up. There are a few effective backup methods. Pretty good article on this below:
http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/RapBackup.htm
I personally have been using either a high placed ATC and a backup knot below the belay device or a harness placed ATC with a backup knot above. I generally use one klemheist or prussik over both ropes. Not sure if it's better to use separate prussiks or not.
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 3:52 AM
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When you say high placed ATC do you mean:
Harness : biner : sling : biner : atc
Using Prusicks over each rope going though the ATC will work, thanks
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shoo
Dec 29, 2006, 3:59 AM
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Asgarin wrote: Harness : biner : sling : biner : atc
Yes, but you can eliminate the first biner by girth hitching the sling. so it's harness-sling-biner-ATC.
In this configuration, it's probably best to clip the backup knots to a leg loop instead of your belay loop, as it won't really be taking any significant weight, and it makes it easier to un weight and keep going after it locks.
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 4:04 AM
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I suppose the prusick cord would break before a leg loop if everything else fell apart for some strange reason
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tuna
Dec 29, 2006, 4:44 AM
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If you just want to stop somewhere in between the top and the ground and lets say take a picture or whatever you want to do then take the two ends below your ATC and just wrap them around your leg. I normally use the right leg since that is brake hand side. Make at least FOUR loops as close to your crotch as possible and bam semi instant lock off.
Other than that I just can't help ya
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 4:49 AM
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yeah, oh well, I just thought there might be some mechanical thing that would do the same as wrapping it around my leg, which is what I have to do if I need two hands free I guess.
the situation I am imagining is me abseiling off something 70meters high, with only 30 meters of rope, I will have to stop, anchor, and pull the rope down, and make annother anchor for the rope. then do it all again.
Im bored & have no rope except 30 meter static ... wanting to do some crazy things, but safely haha O.o
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tattooed_climber
Dec 29, 2006, 6:11 AM
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i swear i've seen in a petzl catalogue (could have been the work solutions one) that listed up the petzl 'stop' was single and double versions...
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tattooed_climber
Dec 29, 2006, 6:13 AM
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Asgarin wrote: Im bored & have no rope except 30 meter static ... wanting to do some crazy things, but safely haha O.o
holy shit balls its amateur hour!
nothing but a 30m STATIC?...not an actual climbing rope???....then let me ASSUME you have no real experience....
T2
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doktor_g
Dec 29, 2006, 6:21 AM
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I hate to go so low tech with your fancy schmancy springloaded gizmos, but what about a "Rescue-8?" Lockable. Dual rope ready. No rope diameter limitations. Cheap.
G
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 6:24 AM
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Heh, assume what you wish, ive been climbing for a while now, with other peoples rope. I bought the static for abseiling specifically, and the reason I dont own my own rope is because im rather lacking in the funds =(
I should be using some mammut supersafe 10.2 in a few months.
I've got a petzl cat here and I was HOPING it came in double versions but no, it doesn't say. spose I could call the supplier tommorow at work though.
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 6:27 AM
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Kong / CMI "Rescue-8"
[Edit] Forgot you could post links, is this the one? http://store.everestgear.com/435019.html [/Edit]
Looks like a cross between a Petzl Huit and a Pirana? [sp]
could be the go, I was considering a Pirana, but I just wanted to know what else was out there, so I could compare. Maybe I should have stated that.
(This post was edited by Asgarin on Dec 29, 2006, 6:30 AM)
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 6:32 AM
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tattooed_climber wrote: Asgarin wrote: Im bored & have no rope except 30 meter static ... wanting to do some crazy things, but safely haha O.o holy shit balls its amateur hour! nothing but a 30m STATIC?...not an actual climbing rope???....then let me ASSUME you have no real experience.... T2
And further more, iirc static is absolutely fine for abseiling off, correct me if I'm wrong.
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shockabuku
Dec 29, 2006, 7:02 AM
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If you already have an ATC style belay device I'd recommend the Petzl Shunt as mentioned above. It's probably a little more pricey than an 8 but couldn't be more than the Stop. It works very well as a rappel back-up and decently as an ascender. I really appreciate it when rapping with a pack, (especially on a Reverso) - it's basically effortless and you can go hands off immediately. It's a little more work to hook up but not that big a deal.
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 8:15 AM
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Hmm thanks for all your replies guys.
I've had my eye on the shunt too, I've never seen a 'Rescue-8' in New Zealand before but ill see if I can get my hands on one to try out, since it would be cheaper than the shunt and moneys the main thing ><
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drfelatio
Dec 29, 2006, 8:19 AM
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If you have an ATC, then you don't need to go out and spend $50+ on a new belay/rap device. You just need something to make the ATC lock up. You could spend the money on a Shunt, but it sounds like a cheap section of prussik cord will fulfill your needs just the same. I typically rap with my ATC on my harness and the prussik cord tied to my leg loop (via a locking biner) with either a prussik knot, kleimheist, or just a simple autoblock.
Keep it simple.
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drfelatio
Dec 29, 2006, 8:23 AM
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Asgarin wrote: Hmm thanks for all your replies guys. I've had my eye on the shunt too, I've never seen a 'Rescue-8' in New Zealand before but ill see if I can get my hands on one to try out, since it would be cheaper than the shunt and moneys the main thing ><
Well if money's your main thing, then screw the Shunt and stick with the prussic cord. A basic ATC is like $15-$20 and prussic cord is like 30-some cents a foot. The Shunt, on the other hand, is $50 and you'd still need your rap device (if you don't already have one).
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Asgarin
Dec 29, 2006, 8:25 AM
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yeah I've got an ATC, so next time I go out (ive got cord around) I'll make a couple prussiks and if it doesnt fit the bill, some time in the future ill give a rescue-8 type device a try.
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musicman1586
Dec 29, 2006, 9:06 AM
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A rescue 8 would definitely fulfill your needs (from what I've read). It's quick and simple to lock off, allows for quick or slow smooth descents (atc with prussick etc. can be choppy depending on angle, diamater of cord, device used, etc.) and is simple to set up, and if needed can be backed up with a prussick, although never had a problem with a rescue 8 not locking off securely. The Petzl Pirana wouldn't work for what you want however, it's designed for two things, the ability to lock off on a single rope, and the ability to adjust the speed of descent depending on the load you are lowering, which is the reason for the various horns on it. It can be used with two rope strands, but you can't lock it off as it is designed to do, because it isn't meant for doubles. A rescue 8 is designed for pretty much any size of rope, double or single, so it is likely your best option if you want to go simple.
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