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granite_grrl
Feb 7, 2007, 7:01 PM
Post #76 of 121
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Wow, I leave this thread for a day and look at what its become!!!
Power_tie, I assumed you had experiance when you wrote the OP, it would appear that you do not. If I was out at the crag and some misinformed n00b kept telling me what I can or cannot do I would get pretty pissed.
In the end if you were a little more experianced then you'd understand the flow of the cliff a little better. Maybe you could have actually climbed there once before you brought a group there!
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endercore
Feb 7, 2007, 7:08 PM
Post #77 of 121
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Registered: Apr 28, 2006
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when i guide I make sure we always have someone on the climb and not just hanging a rope.
If you wern't climbing on the particular route you could have let them lead it on their rope and trail up yours... having them reclip it to the anchor when they were done.
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j_ung
Feb 7, 2007, 7:10 PM
Post #78 of 121
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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Power_Tie, do you think congestion is the worst a typical guided climbing day has to throw at you?
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trenchdigger
Feb 7, 2007, 7:14 PM
Post #79 of 121
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Registered: Mar 9, 2003
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Davey wrote: Thank you all I get the point but I hope you get my point. NO PLACE FOR IDIOTS.
Point taken... and agreed.
The OP should have allowed the climbers to lead through out of common courtesty. That he didn't is a minor faux pax assuming there were other routes nearby (which it sounds is the case).
Such an inexperienced climber "guiding" and "instructing" a large group of novices is irresponsible and unsafe.
To the OP: Puff your chest all you want, but the constructive criticism here, while shrouded in little jabbing insults, comes from climbers with far more experience than you posess. The most dangerous years for a climber are the formative years - usually when they have between 1 and 3 years of experience. Climbers with that level of experience think they know enough to be safe, but in reality lack the skills and knowledge necessary to solve problems that may arise. Settle down, climb safe, and please don't land yourself in ANAM.
Oh, and welcome to rockclimbing.com...
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coastal_climber
Feb 7, 2007, 7:21 PM
Post #80 of 121
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Registered: Nov 17, 2006
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vertical_planar wrote: Btw topropping is irrelevant to the question.
... Considering the topic is about TRing?
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j_ung
Feb 7, 2007, 7:27 PM
Post #81 of 121
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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trenchdigger wrote: Davey wrote: Thank you all I get the point but I hope you get my point. NO PLACE FOR IDIOTS. Point taken... and agreed. The OP should have allowed the climbers to lead through out of common courtesty. That he didn't is a minor faux pax assuming there were other routes nearby (which it sounds is the case). Such an inexperienced climber "guiding" and "instructing" a large group of novices is irresponsible and unsafe. To the OP: Puff your chest all you want, but the constructive criticism here, while shrouded in little jabbing insults, comes from climbers with far more experience than you posess. The most dangerous years for a climber are the formative years - usually when they have between 1 and 3 years of experience. Climbers with that level of experience think they know enough to be safe, but in reality lack the skills and knowledge necessary to solve problems that may arise. Settle down, climb safe, and please don't land yourself in ANAM. Oh, and welcome to rockclimbing.com...
Trophy, trenchdigger. Well written.
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zeke_sf
Feb 7, 2007, 7:38 PM
Post #82 of 121
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Registered: Apr 28, 2006
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Power_Tie wrote: Some of you seem to think that what we were doing was wrong, and unsafe. These rock climbs were on public land. I have every right to go to this place, and to take my employees with me.
Nobody disputes your right to climb on a climbing website. Expecting other climbers in this forum and in the field to respect you for your lovemaking and business acumen is laughable. Those more experienced than yourself have a right to point out your ignorance of the values and practices of our community for no other reason as simple as the fact your incompetence can hurt/kill yourself as well as others. Be safe!
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hummm
Feb 7, 2007, 7:40 PM
Post #83 of 121
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Registered: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 81
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OP: How you manage your company has nothing to do with how fast and how well you can climb. You should be smart enough not to make that kind of connection. Just because I am an engineer doesn't reflect how well I can calculate the speed and force of my leading partners when they fall! You should also be smart enough to know learn from the books has nothing to do with your level of skill, just because I watch Shaun White a million time doesn't I am going to pull 720 next time?!
Sounds like you were at Castle Rock, you should let those people lead the crack, and ask them to pull your rope through again. The fact you mentioned that took you a while to set up is because you are a beginner!!! Set up over there can't be any easier than a 2 minute hike to the top for most places. You should share, and maybe they had a little attitude, but that never justified you giving out attitude. I don't believe in tic for tac. Once a while I get irritated by people who thinks they can hog everything. Plus, at Castle Rock, everything is spread out, I would hate to have to hike to another place because you are taking all 4 routes. Each crags are not far from each other, but still a good 15 to 30 hike.
Most comments were constructive, I think you should focus on that. Some might poke fun at you because you were a little arrogant. Leave your exec. attitude at the office. We are all out there to have fun, so be nice.
(This post was edited by hummm on Feb 7, 2007, 7:42 PM)
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puerto
Feb 7, 2007, 7:43 PM
Post #84 of 121
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Registered: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 229
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Wow this thread is priceless!
If you're gonna take over a crag with a bunch of top-ropes, you really should go out of your way to offer to pull at least one of the ropes if other climbers show up. They shouldn't have to ask..
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kman
Feb 7, 2007, 8:09 PM
Post #86 of 121
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Registered: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 2561
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In reply to: I've guided multi-million dollar businesses through corporate mergers, sales, and reorganizations. You two clowns are probably piling more budweiser cans on the floor complaining about 'the man' or something.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH I don't even drink that shit, and very rarely drink at all. I also have a very rewarding career but that has nothing to do with anything.
Guiding businesses has nothing to do with guiding in climbing. Take your corporate head out of your ass. One requires money lust, the other requires a lust for life...what's more important to you?
In reply to: You teach people how to use Excel? Sounds like a rewarding career. Now go teach someone who makes more money than you basic computer functions.
No one here is going to be impressed by how much money you make. Very laughable. It's not about who makes more money...I won't even go there since it's something people like you will never begin to comprehend.
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kman
Feb 7, 2007, 8:13 PM
Post #87 of 121
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Registered: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 2561
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In reply to: you tough guys think I should step aside to let better climbers on a climb, you should step aside then next time you get close to your wife, and let a real man show you how it's done.
In reply to: Yea ok stuffy business man. I'm sure it's fantasies such as this that keep you going. Hate to break it to you: We’re the guy your wife calls after your shiny BMW pulls out of the driveway and your Viagra fueled travesty of lovemaking left her unsatisfied. Again.
LMFAO!!!
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fancyclaps
Feb 7, 2007, 8:29 PM
Post #88 of 121
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Registered: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 210
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In reply to: Viagra fueled travesty of lovemaking.
That has to be one of the best insults I have heard in a long time.
Beyond that I dont have much to add to the thread that hasn't already been said. One of the key things I have found with the climbing community is that kindness will get you a really long way.
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reg
Feb 7, 2007, 8:46 PM
Post #89 of 121
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1560
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ya know - i got in this early but each time i come back and read the more i believe it's a troll. somebody looked at power tie's profile earlier as i just did- this whole thing has been a frickin joke. shut r down boys and girls before s/he lands us on the boat and starts felayin!
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hummm
Feb 7, 2007, 8:47 PM
Post #90 of 121
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Registered: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 81
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112 wrote: hummm wrote: Just because I am an engineer doesn't reflect how well I can calculate the speed and force of my leading partners when they fall! No, but if you were an Engineer, that fact, would imply you are able to approximate it! I don't think that is what you ment though. 
Sure, I can approximate, and pretty good at it, that came with my training as an architect.  Just a little hard to pull out my calculator while I am belaying.
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saxfiend
Feb 7, 2007, 8:48 PM
Post #91 of 121
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Registered: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 1208
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Power_Tie wrote: I should probably just leave it at that, but some of the more colorful responses beg a reply. [ remaining "I've got a big shlong" horseshit snipped]
JL
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zeke_sf
Feb 7, 2007, 8:54 PM
Post #92 of 121
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Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
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I was of that mind early into this thread. That's why I asked where PT climbed (without an answer yet from him). I've even checked my Bay Area guidebook for a 5.9 crack that sounds like the one he's talking about near "TR Only" climbs. I've climbed at most every Bay Area crag, and none of them sound similar to what he described. So, he's either a troll that prepared some background before this thread, or he is what he says he is. I'm not sure which is more frightening
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fmd
Feb 7, 2007, 9:08 PM
Post #93 of 121
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Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
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Power_Tie wrote: Well! Quite a colorful collection of responses I have recieved here! First, I would like to thank everyone who weighed in with some constructive input, even if it was critical of what I was doing. I would like to think I am never above learning. With that said, I think the best way to meet everyone's needs would have been to allow those climbers to lead the crack climb, and then replace my top rope when they had finished. This practice was beyond my experience at the time. If this had been suggested by the other climbers, I would have happily agreed. I am sorry they did not think to suggest this. I should probably just leave it at that, but some of the more colorful responses beg a reply. Some of you seem to think that what we were doing was wrong, and unsafe. These rock climbs were on public land. I have every right to go to this place, and to take my employees with me. Further, I purchased several guidebooks at REI, and researched differrent areas we could go. This area appeared to be a good area to take beginner climbers, and would be easy to set up top ropes on the climbs. They were all set up on 2 bolts each, with 4 locking carabiners. I had practiced this at home, and read how to do it safely in a book. It isn't exactly rocket science. Also, every one of my team was trained to belay when we were back at the office in San Francisco, as part of the exercise. We took an hour in the afternoon, and worked on safe belay practices, plus climbing commands and knot tying. We had fun, and it got everyone excited about the outing. Finally, I think I will respond to some of the ribbing I am taking by a couple internet losers here. kman and dingus come to mind, as getting rather personal with me. I can take that, can they? I've guided multi-million dollar businesses through corporate mergers, sales, and reorganizations. You two clowns are probably piling more budweiser cans on the floor complaining about 'the man' or something. If you tough guys think I should step aside to let better climbers on a climb, you should step aside then next time you get close to your wife, and let a real man show you how it's done.
And "guiding" mulit million dollar business deals makes you a climbing "guide"? Do yourself a favor and take a deep breath and read what you just wrote about yourself. Then do a goggle search on some of these people that you are calling clowns. Just wondering? Do "your" employees and "your" team knows that you have little to no experiance in climbing?
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fallingup
Feb 7, 2007, 9:17 PM
Post #95 of 121
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Registered: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 43
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Troll or not, this has to be one of the most entertaining threads that I've read in quite a while.
fallingup
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boku
Feb 7, 2007, 9:28 PM
Post #96 of 121
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Registered: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 278
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fmd wrote: Do yourself a favor and take a deep breath and read what you just wrote about yourself...
You also might benefit from a close reading of the fine print in the insurance policy that covers your employees while on-the-job.
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sherrilewis
Feb 7, 2007, 11:10 PM
Post #97 of 121
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Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Posts: 48
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saxfiend wrote: Either this is one of the biggest trolls yet perpetrated on rc.com, or power_tie is actually Donald Trump. JL
Power Tie?
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devils_advocate
Feb 7, 2007, 11:38 PM
Post #98 of 121
(2010 views)
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Registered: May 18, 2006
Posts: 1823
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sherrilewis wrote: Power Tie? [image]http://www.shaadi.com/wedding/fashion/accessories/images/sathya-paul-ties-5.jpg[/image]
Why didn't you say so... in that case, next time I get close to my wife I will gladly step aside and let Power Tie step in. As long as I get to watch.
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nedsurf
Feb 7, 2007, 11:44 PM
Post #99 of 121
(2003 views)
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Registered: Nov 9, 2004
Posts: 387
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I facilitate top rope sites for various organizations. Despite what my non-climbing supervisors ask of me, I will not set up ropes before the group uses the rock to "reserve" the route. For a climbing site just north of the Washington DC beltway, I had to flat out refuse to guide, because it is already too saturated with guided groups and individual climbers. That organization had the national park permit to use the area but made no specific contribution to that overused climbing area. Other organizations that use the area make an effort to help maintain it.
Yes as a TRSM or guide you have to run your program. But as a climber who must be a part of the local climbing community, your business actions cannot be rude. I climb in the same areas that I take groups to. Bottom line with top ropes; if they are not being used at that time, they are coming down. Don't know about your specific situation, you must evaluate it yourself. I heard some places it is mandated that a guided group concede a route to an unguided group.
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nedsurf
Feb 7, 2007, 11:54 PM
Post #100 of 121
(1994 views)
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Registered: Nov 9, 2004
Posts: 387
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Power_Tie wrote: Well! Quite a colorful collection of responses I have recieved here! First, I would like to thank everyone who weighed in with some constructive input, even if it was critical of what I was doing. I would like to think I am never above learning. With that said, I think the best way to meet everyone's needs would have been to allow those climbers to lead the crack climb, and then replace my top rope when they had finished. This practice was beyond my experience at the time. If this had been suggested by the other climbers, I would have happily agreed. I am sorry they did not think to suggest this. I should probably just leave it at that, but some of the more colorful responses beg a reply. Some of you seem to think that what we were doing was wrong, and unsafe. These rock climbs were on public land. I have every right to go to this place, and to take my employees with me. Further, I purchased several guidebooks at REI, and researched differrent areas we could go. This area appeared to be a good area to take beginner climbers, and would be easy to set up top ropes on the climbs. They were all set up on 2 bolts each, with 4 locking carabiners. I had practiced this at home, and read how to do it safely in a book. It isn't exactly rocket science. Also, every one of my team was trained to belay when we were back at the office in San Francisco, as part of the exercise. We took an hour in the afternoon, and worked on safe belay practices, plus climbing commands and knot tying. We had fun, and it got everyone excited about the outing. Finally, I think I will respond to some of the ribbing I am taking by a couple internet losers here. kman and dingus come to mind, as getting rather personal with me. I can take that, can they? I've guided multi-million dollar businesses through corporate mergers, sales, and reorganizations. You two clowns are probably piling more budweiser cans on the floor complaining about 'the man' or something. If you tough guys think I should step aside to let better climbers on a climb, you should step aside then next time you get close to your wife, and let a real man show you how it's done. 
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