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bobruef
May 10, 2007, 2:40 PM
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taino wrote: soillclimber wrote: Yes it was stamped "tensile tested."Hoping against hope... People are going to demand a picture. *sigh* Well, that's that.
My aliens will hit ebay today. Well, I guess I'm off to the utterly depressing TCUs v. C3s thread.
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skinnyclimber
May 10, 2007, 3:10 PM
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soillclimber wrote: Yes it was stamped "tensile tested." Which there is no way that it was. 60 feet out on a Beal (7.4kN impact force) and a dynamic belay, does not equal 2/3 of the rated strength of a yellow alien. Not positive, but I think that means it was tested to around 1850 lbs. Whatever CCH. Will someone post the 2/3 rating of the yellow. I know it is up already somewhere, but I gotta get to work.
OK there's no info on the cch website, but from gear express I get this chart with the specs, strength ratings and such:
http://www.mtntools.com/...ams/cchalienscom.htm
Now there's already some issue because there is an obvious typo on this page and it's the line that has info on the yellow alien. It says that the yello alien is rated to 9kN and says that is equal to 2700 lbf. But 9 kN is actually 2025 lbf (I just verified this myself) and so they made a mistake in writing this chart.
Nonetheless I wil bet that the yellow alien is rated to 9kN which as I mentioned is 2025 lb. OK so if this yellow alien was pull tested to 1750 lbs as claimed on the cch website:
http://www.aliencamsbycch.com/alien_news.html
that means it was supossedly tested to 7.8 kN
Thus it seems unlikely that this low FF fall would produce this force on the top peice.
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taino
May 10, 2007, 3:17 PM
Post #131 of 354
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cracklover wrote: You are responsible for your own safety. Period. GO
Just wanted to see that again.
T
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mojomonkey
May 10, 2007, 3:30 PM
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No response on their site yet, but I see they did update - a story about someone being caught by the trigger bar on a black alien. So maybe the lesson is to just rip off and sling the triggers?
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bobruef
May 10, 2007, 3:42 PM
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bobruef wrote: taino wrote: soillclimber wrote: Yes it was stamped "tensile tested."Hoping against hope... People are going to demand a picture. *sigh* Well, that's that. My aliens will hit ebay today. Well, I guess I'm off to the utterly depressing TCUs v. C3s thread.
One of you Alien occultists go snatch up mine off of ebay!
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phillipmikerevis
May 10, 2007, 3:50 PM
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i have never owned any aliens and in all my time climbing [20+ years] never ran across a placement that i couldn't use without them
i think that this situation pretty much ends the aliens vs tcus or any other cam debate
aliens suck buy some real cams and stop acting like a bunch of geeks
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pjdf
May 10, 2007, 3:52 PM
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Gabe,
What have you set up as a testing rig? I've started testing my Aliens, beginning with some pulls from my car this weekend (I ended up moving my father's car, which was serving as an anchor . . .), and will be doing some work with a funkness device soon. Any other advice on good testing strategies would be appreciated.
-James
[edited for slight clarification]
(This post was edited by pjdf on May 10, 2007, 4:10 PM)
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jakedatc
May 10, 2007, 3:53 PM
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bobruef wrote: bobruef wrote: taino wrote: soillclimber wrote: Yes it was stamped "tensile tested."Hoping against hope... People are going to demand a picture. *sigh* Well, that's that. My aliens will hit ebay today. Well, I guess I'm off to the utterly depressing TCUs v. C3s thread. One of you Alien occultists go snatch up mine off of ebay!
"An excellent cam in great condition. A joy to place, and confidence inspiring. Having tried aliens, camalots and tcu's in this size, without a doubt, cch makes the superior product. This cam has been bounced around on under bodyweight, but seen no falls. Aliens are, without a doubt, the standard in small cams."
nice...
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mojomonkey
May 10, 2007, 4:00 PM
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jakedatc wrote: bobruef wrote: bobruef wrote: taino wrote: soillclimber wrote: Yes it was stamped "tensile tested."Hoping against hope... People are going to demand a picture. *sigh* Well, that's that. My aliens will hit ebay today. Well, I guess I'm off to the utterly depressing TCUs v. C3s thread. One of you Alien occultists go snatch up mine off of ebay! "An excellent cam in great condition. A joy to place, and confidence inspiring. Having tried aliens, camalots and tcu's in this size, without a doubt, cch makes the superior product. This cam has been bounced around on under bodyweight, but seen no falls. Aliens are, without a doubt, the standard in small cams." nice...
Nice? You are selling them because you are afraid they will fall apart, yet post them as confidence inspiring? While funny for this thread, how about being honest in why you are selling them before hooking a "sucker" who doesn't read climbing forums and has no idea what they are getting into? They will probably still move even if you are totally honest, and you won't feel so slimy later. Unless your attitude will be "sucks to be them" if the piece does fail and you don't care at all.
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wideguy
May 10, 2007, 4:03 PM
Post #138 of 354
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jakedatc wrote: "An excellent cam in great condition. A joy to place, and confidence inspiring. Having tried aliens, camalots and tcu's in this size, without a doubt, cch makes the superior product. This cam has been bounced around on under bodyweight, but seen no falls. Aliens are, without a doubt, the standard in small cams." nice...
Well, he couldn't very well add ...
"...I'm just selling mine because, in light of recent events, I've lost all faith in them to keep me from becoming dead ." Now could he?
They'd never sell.
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mojomonkey
May 10, 2007, 4:05 PM
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wideguy wrote: jakedatc wrote: "An excellent cam in great condition. A joy to place, and confidence inspiring. Having tried aliens, camalots and tcu's in this size, without a doubt, cch makes the superior product. This cam has been bounced around on under bodyweight, but seen no falls. Aliens are, without a doubt, the standard in small cams." nice... Well, he couldn't very well add ... "...I'm just selling mine because, in light of recent events, I've lost all faith in them to keep me from becoming dead ." Now could he? They'd never sell.
They probably still would, people are always looking for a deal...
(This post was edited by mojomonkey on May 10, 2007, 4:08 PM)
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medicus
May 10, 2007, 4:07 PM
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"cch makes the superior product."
That part really pisses me off.
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trenchdigger
May 10, 2007, 4:07 PM
Post #141 of 354
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mojomonkey wrote: Nice? You are selling them because you are afraid they will fall apart, yet post them as confidence inspiring? While funny for this thread, how about being honest in why you are selling them before hooking a "sucker" who doesn't read climbing forums and has no idea what they are getting into? They will probably still move even if you are totally honest, and you won't feel so slimy later. Unless your attitude will be "sucks to be them" if the piece does fail and you don't care at all.
Maybe I'm the naive one, but I sensed a hint of sarcasm in his post.
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mojomonkey
May 10, 2007, 4:10 PM
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trenchdigger wrote: Maybe I'm the naive one, but I sensed a hint of sarcasm in his post.
I'm not pissed at the guy who wrote "nice", I am pissed at bobruef for martketing his product with views he obviously doesn't hold to unload something he is afraid may be dangerous on some unsuspecting cheapskate. But hey, as long as he gets some cash back.
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medicus
May 10, 2007, 4:12 PM
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Completely what makes me angry too.
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wideguy
May 10, 2007, 4:18 PM
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Yeah, any future discussion should be limited to say that CCH makes a product with a great DESIGN, not that they make a great finished Product.
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reg
May 10, 2007, 4:18 PM
Post #145 of 354
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cracklover wrote: soillclimber wrote: Yes it was stamped "tensile tested." I said it a year ago, and I'll say it again: Yes, it sucks that CCH has poor quality control. But there's really only one lesson to be learned from this, and it's one that all trad climbers (myself included) should have known already: You are responsible for your own safety. Period. GO
i'm not a lawyer (but i play one .......) " you are responsible....." is true and not true. you are to blame for your mistakes but not those of others. liability issues are in courts all the time. if cch says they tested to this and that and they are made this way and that etc then, if they are not, cch is liable. hopefully the climber will not be injured and can sue for damages. if i place a cam wrong - i screwed. if cch flubs up construction - i'm sueing. i guess "being ultimately responsible" means paying the ultimate price for some elses negligence.
edit: i'm suein to make the industry (cch - et al) get their act together and do it right or pay big bucks
(This post was edited by reg on May 10, 2007, 4:21 PM)
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trenchdigger
May 10, 2007, 4:18 PM
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mojomonkey wrote: trenchdigger wrote: Maybe I'm the naive one, but I sensed a hint of sarcasm in his post. I'm not pissed at the guy who wrote "nice", I am pissed at bobruef for martketing his product with views he obviously doesn't hold to unload something he is afraid may be dangerous on some unsuspecting cheapskate. But hey, as long as he gets some cash back.
My bad... I took it as a joke! I didn't realize that was his actual e-bay posting. In that case AGREED. Lame...
I have some Cassin Joss cams. They were never very confidence inspiring when I used them - cast aluminum cam lobes and all. Then I read an accident report on here and in ANAM about a guy who took a very short fall on one and the cam LOBE broke in half right across the axle hole causing the placement to fail and the guy fell to his death. Prior to this, I was planning on selling the cams to a newer climber starting a rack. After hearing the story, I elected NOT to sell the cams and have kept them for use as aid-only pieces or just decorations. Self respect and respect for others' well being is worth more than a few extra bucks on e-bay.
(This post was edited by trenchdigger on May 10, 2007, 4:20 PM)
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bobruef
May 10, 2007, 4:26 PM
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jakedatc wrote: bobruef wrote: bobruef wrote: taino wrote: soillclimber wrote: Yes it was stamped "tensile tested."Hoping against hope... People are going to demand a picture. *sigh* Well, that's that. My aliens will hit ebay today. Well, I guess I'm off to the utterly depressing TCUs v. C3s thread. One of you Alien occultists go snatch up mine off of ebay! "An excellent cam in great condition. A joy to place, and confidence inspiring. Having tried aliens, camalots and tcu's in this size, without a doubt, cch makes the superior product. This cam has been bounced around on under bodyweight, but seen no falls. Aliens are, without a doubt, the standard in small cams." nice...
Oh hey, good call.  Honestly, that description is my selling template for cams. I sold one of my Aliens a while ago, and didn't even look at the description. I just changed the picture and title of my add. Thanks for calling my attention to this. I think my descriptions in need of some modification .
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jakedatc
May 10, 2007, 4:32 PM
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/puts pitch forks, torches and vat of boiling oil away......
Dammit... i was so getting amped for a good lynching but noooo you gotta be all smart and fix things ;)
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bobruef
May 10, 2007, 4:45 PM
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jakedatc wrote: /puts pitch forks, torches and vat of boiling oil away...... Dammit... i was so getting amped for a good lynching but noooo you gotta be all smart and fix things ;)
Don't put them away just yet, it wouldn't let me delete that part of my listing. It would only let me add. So I added a disclaimer citing recent events regarding CCH.
While I'd obiously not say something like "I'm selling these cams because I don't trust them", I think what was on that listing is a little hypocritical to say the least. I'm guilty as charged. I should have taken a little more time to look at what my description was. The yellow and green ones are pre-recall FWIW.
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wings
May 10, 2007, 4:48 PM
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I think there's a bit of an ethical dilemma in selling one's aliens. I've done my due diligence (they've all been bounce tested, and I am awaiting CCH to tensile test them, for what that's worth), but the thought that my buyer may not know what they are getting into would bug me.
Damn my conscience. There goes $800 ...
- Seyil
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