j-ung....you were seriously rumored to have sold off first ascents?! Who came up with that rumor?

The rumor is that I sell FAs for profit. Like all rumors, it has it's basis in fact. Last summer, I had a hand in some route development at an area in the New called Cottontop. Around that same time, the silent auction to benefit Laurel Knob occurred at a gym, in Charlotte, NC, I have ties to. (I lived and climbed for several years in NC, and it's still near and dear.) Anywho, at the time, I was eyeballing a potential sport route on the cliff, when it occurred to me to go ahead and bolt it, but give up the FA for the silent auction. So actually, the truth is I did "sell" a first ascent, if by "sell," you mean raised money for the Carolina Climbers Coalition's purchase of, ironically, the tallest predominantly trad cliff in the eastern US.

Even more ironically, a week after said first ascent, it came to light that the line of bolts squeezed a pre-existing trad line up a dirty chimney that I didn't know had been climbed previously. Another week later, I and the guy who FA-ed the chimney met up, went climbing, talked the situation over like adults and I removed every bolt myself and patched the holes. We decided mutually to leave the anchor and now both routes go on gear, although the chimney is still really dirty and the other route next to it is very much R rated.

But hey, "Jay Young sells first ascents," is so much easier to pass along.

Another week later, I and the guy who FA-ed the chimney met up, went climbing, talked the situation over like adults and I removed every bolt myself and patched the holes.

i'm sure the people who did this had no intention of injuring anyone. they wanted to play a joke and it backfired...

you bolt, then remove the bolts because you realized it was not needed in the first place? what a f'ing waste of time, money and damaging the rock.

you get no respect....

The rumor is that I sell FAs for profit. Like all rumors, it has it's basis in fact. Last summer, I had a hand in some route development at an area in the New called Cottontop. Around that same time, the silent auction to benefit Laurel Knob occurred at a gym, in Charlotte, NC, I have ties to. (I lived and climbed for several years in NC, and it's still near and dear.) Anywho, at the time, I was eyeballing a potential sport route on the cliff, when it occurred to me to go ahead and bolt it, but give up the FA for the silent auction. So actually, the truth is I did "sell" a first ascent, if by "sell," you mean raised money for the Carolina Climbers Coalition's purchase of, ironically, the tallest predominantly trad cliff in the eastern US.

Even more ironically, a week after said first ascent, it came to light that the line of bolts squeezed a pre-existing trad line up a dirty chimney that I didn't know had been climbed previously. Another week later, I and the guy who FA-ed the chimney met up, went climbing, talked the situation over like adults and I removed every bolt myself and patched the holes. We decided mutually to leave the anchor and now both routes go on gear, although the chimney is still really dirty and the other route next to it is very much R rated.

But hey, "Jay Young sells first ascents," is so much easier to pass along.

How could a climbers personal safety be less important than the way people approach an ethical debate?

I think arguments about climbing ethics are completely frivolous compared to the value of one persons life. That is why I generally take the sport/safer/more bolts placed on rappel side of most ethical arguments.

I go out and climb on the cliffs to amuse myself and engage in a fun, fulfilling activity. I will never understand the "trad ego", boldness, ground-up, elitist mentality. I think it is born out of insecurity.

you didn't realize there was a protectable line just next to it?

yah, you made a mistake, but this sounds recent, & you seem to be an experienced climber that should not make those type of mistakes?

maybe not though..

well, in the eyes of hardcore trad ethics, I would have to say it can never be 'fixed'...

only patched.

in my own ethics, leaving the bolts there is better then chopping them.

its like a lot of things in life.. sometimes its better to just let your mistakes be mistakes and not try to fix them.

Sure, sometimes it's better to avoid making an even bigger mess of things. In this case, I felt -- and still feel -- that correcting the error (as best as possible) was the best thing for everybody involved. Leaving the bolts would have been the bigger mess of things.

this sh*t has NO BUISNESS being on the internet. I am soo tired of Fayettevegas locals wanting to spray on the web. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! This is our buisness, not fodder for your f*ing rc.com ego-inflation. the boys that perpetrated this "crime" are salt of the earth. you don't know the story, you would'nt understand the motives, so keep your comments to yourself. i consider these guys friends, people who slander my friends get hurt. i look forward to meeting some of you and visiting those of you i know. " i'm essentially a pacificist, but ever once in a while people need a quick shot to the mouth" ed.

still, since when did the goverment regulate bolting of climbing..

first off, climb at your own risk.. your OWN RISK..

its like this ; if you get on a trad route, and the guide says there is a bomber placement after a runout section, and it is less then bomber, is the guidebook writers fault, or the rock's fault?

who's fault is it if a 'fixed' peice fails ?

yes, what they did was reckless, incompetent and stupid. but if you clipped into a 'glued' on hanger, you have some issues.. plus you should read a guide beforehand and look where bolt placements are or climb with someone who knows the climb.

i'm sure the people who did this had no intention of injuring anyone. they wanted to play a joke and it backfired...

you get no respect....

Crimes committed on federal land (such as NPS lands) are... federal crimes.

Neither do you.

Sure, sometimes it's better to avoid making an even bigger mess of things. In this case, I felt -- and still feel -- that correcting the error (as best as possible) was the best thing for everybody involved. Leaving the bolts would have been the bigger mess of things.

A guide from New River Mountain Guides noticed the bolts and raised the awareness of them to the Authroities, A very responsible thing to do.