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bigevilgrape
Sep 18, 2002, 8:20 PM
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ive only used my state of girlyness as an excuse to try harder. all any one has to do is say "look the chick cant do it" and i become super motivated to do it.
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likethegoddess
Sep 18, 2002, 9:04 PM
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I've never used my gender as an excuse, but I have used my size as an excuse for not getting reachy holds. Now, I'm working on my dynos.
Strangely enough, I feel like I push myself hardest when I boulder alone. Well, not all along, but working a problem on my own. I push myself too, when I'm being supported and getting good beta, etc. I push myself less when I'm working a problem with someone else and they send it first. Some latent competitive urge comes up and I sort of shrink for going full-out. Weird, huh?
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nikegirl
Sep 18, 2002, 9:20 PM
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no not weird...I understand that completly. Bouldering is challenging and fun that way. Challenging and motivating. I don't shrink...as much as I tend to try harder...after watching the moves, and try them too...may never get it, and frustrated as hell...but, that exausts me, and I feel like I've tried hard...and feel good for not giveing up.
I don't get enough outdoors bouldering.
seems vertical is the majority vote...
about here, in my circle. Gym, though (bouldering) is all I do..I go alone, meet up or not with others. But, I am more motivated with beta, and working them with others guidance. I tend to hit the harder problems then.
T
[ This Message was edited by: nikegirl on 2002-09-18 14:24 ]
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likethegoddess
Sep 21, 2002, 5:25 AM
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Oh, nike, I mean weird that I'd shrink back like that. But when I think about it, that makes sense. I'm really not competitive that way. I do best when I'm challenging myself or getting supported by others, but when it's anything remotely competitive I lose confidence. Hmmm, something to work on.
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indigo_nite
Sep 24, 2002, 12:18 AM
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i think the flip side of under-rating your climbing abilities when climbing with men (like relying on their leading) could be expecting men to be more able than you (generally). sometimes i feel like i expect more climbing knowledge (physical technique and skills) out of guys but realize this is skewed.
we're kind of conditioned to think maybe men will solve the problems or get women out of a difficult fix. i wonder if women can develop climbing confidence by getting mentored by other women or being in an environment that encourages more risk-taking. (versus being around guys, you might kind of relinquish the risk-taking role b/c they step up more quickly) no hard facts, just hypotheses...
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climberchic
Sep 24, 2002, 1:02 AM
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indigo~
Very good call. That is one of the many reasons behind this forum. To get support from each other. Like I said earlier, I tend to underperform when I'm climbing with men and get embarassed when I have to wuss out in front of women. I climb with all guys ALL the time. I really am interested in seeing what an all women's climb would be like.
I forgot what organization hosts this, but there is an annual "Chicks with Picks" climb in Colorado. I actually thought about trying ice climbing just to see what it would be like to climb with all women.
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russmanswife
Sep 24, 2002, 3:31 PM
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i have never used the fact that i am a woman as an excuse for not doing something, i can keep up with my hubby in whatever he is doing if i can't do something it is mostly because i don't have the experience yet although there have been times where my size comes into play and i just can't physically do it at those times i just remember i gave birth to an 8lb 6oz baby what man can say that. i was raised never to expect less from myself than what i am capable of and i am capable of doing just about anything. my mother told me i can do whatever i wanted to and i still believe that.
bobbi
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kcrag
Sep 27, 2002, 11:22 PM
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Gotta love being a girl! It means we have the CHOICE of using our femininity as an excuse. Not my excuse, however, because I'm always motivated to push as hard as I can, regardless of my assumed gender "weakness". Love climbing with the guys, especially when I can match their strength/skill.
ALTHOUGH... nothing beats a gentleman who opens a door for a lady...
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spider-woman
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Oct 4, 2002, 12:00 AM
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I don't really think of my feminity as an excuse to be weak. In fact I get angry about it. When my friends (boys) and I go climbing and they have to say let's do an easy one next for her, I get upset, but the truth is I am a girl and a weak one. Maybe I should remember that fact when I can't complete a climb and not get so upset about it.
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rockbabe
Oct 5, 2002, 12:13 AM
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"ALTHOUGH... nothing beats a gentleman who opens a door for a lady... "
I couldn't agree more!
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amsam
Oct 5, 2002, 10:58 PM
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I'm sure I've used it as an excuse before, but I definately try not to.
But something that seriously pisses me off is when guys just assume that because I'm a girl, I'm weaker and they won't even let me try to do something.
Earlier this week I was at work stocking shelves and stuff. It was getting close to closing time and we had a few tables of stuff that were outside in front of the store and my manager told me that they needed to be carried in.
Now these were big tables and it usually takes 2 people to carry them. But in the past I've been asked to carry them around and I've managed to do it by my self.
Anyway, just as I was heading outside to get them, my manager called me back to ask what I thought I was doing. She told me that she wanted the guy that was working up front at the register, Rob, to help her carry them in and that I was supposed to watch the register for him while they did that.
When I asked her why she said that it wasn't a job for a girl to do. Now that would have been bad enough even if it was a really buff guy. But Rob has got to be one of the laziest, unhealthiest guys I've ever met, and he has trouble just carrying around 10lbs.
It tool both of them struggling just to drag the tables inside, and I'm able to do it on my own!
Okay, I feel better now after being able to vent. Has that ever happened to anyone else?
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nikegirl
Oct 6, 2002, 9:00 PM
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heheh
yep all the time
today, moving a dishwasher..
today, getting a utility/appliance dolly outta the back of the truck. I met a friend to help me(key word ME) Not me HIM.
lol
I got help from a friend, who thinks along the line as: women are weak, and made for birthing ***
OMG!!!
I am a relativly open person...so, I don't throw my beleifs onto anyone. I don't debate..or get political.
but, I did...
take the dolly from his hands, and took it to the back and loaded it...as he yapped on...I do beleive he was testing me to see if I would "puss" out...
for his wife, is the epitomy of "girly"
Not I.
I basically needed his strength to lift it into the back. That was all.
*but, I do have to have my lipstick.
just is an is...
that's as girly as I get
T
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krustyklimber
Oct 6, 2002, 10:28 PM
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Umm OK ~T~
And the lipstick thing... don't even get me started!
You did seem to let me "play the man" when you were pukin' on my shoes... thanks Not so tough then were ya?
No really, ~T~ is a tough girl, she was so sick I really felt bad for her, she used and needed no excuses on me... She is the epitome of "girls kick ass!"
Jeff
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nikegirl
Oct 6, 2002, 11:25 PM
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hehe
Yep!!
Now KRUSTY was awesome!!!
I was soooooooo sick...
and? That was a time of need.
Not remotely livin' on my gender.
plain ol sick. Hurling!!
Jeff, rocked!!!
I couldn't even think, let alone "Parent my child" I was GONE. Ick.
Jeff? YOU so saved my ass!!! He set up my tent...fed my child...took Brody onto a walk, let me sleep off a little of my sick.
I was in total NEED!!
Miserable, and Jeff stepped up to the plate.
um....jeff???
But, I do remind you??
I did get up in the middle of the night...
still sick, and TRIED and ATTEMPTED to take Brody to the Bathroom...?????
GODDESS!!! That was Comical!!!
*and "who...WHO kept his ass in his tent, laughing???*
hrmf???LOL!!!
I can't thank you MORE!! You are a true Gentleman!!
how are those shoes, BTW???
LOL!!!
T
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aelita
Oct 20, 2002, 3:57 AM
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femininity as an excuse? when my guy friends tell me - you are such a girl - I usually say - you know, last time I checked, that was correct. In fact, I AM a girl, if you haven't noticed! I try not to pay attention to people who say - don't do this, let me help you with that - just cause I am a girl. Hey, if they want to carry this heavy thing, well I'll let them. It doesn't mean I can't do it, but I won't if they are so willing to do it for me.
And yes, sometimes I use being a female to my advantage, I'll smile to get the parking guy not to give me a ticket (like that EVER works... sigh) and I will accept a free drink from a guy who tells me I am cute. I don't see a reason not to.
In general, I find that people who think - oh, she is just a girl - tend to underestimate me and that often gives me an advantage. I push myself to my limits, to how far I feel I can or am willing to go. It has nothing to do with the fact that I am female, just that I am me.
Sure, I think I climb better when I am with someone who has higher expectations from me. Its a subconscious thing actually, and, as a trained behavioral scientist, I can actually list references to literature explaining such phenomena.
So I don't quite understand what you guys mean by - using femininity as an excuse? Excuse me I can't do it 'cause I'll break my nail? I wonder if that's what you mean by femininity? To me, that's purely personal choice, wrapped in a shiny "girly excuse" wrapper.
My cousin's wife, four days before their wedding took it "easy" mountain-biking. Her excuse - "if I fall, it won't heal before my wedding anymore!" (In Russian we tend to say, when a child falls and hurts themselves - don't cry, it will heal before your wedding). Would you say she was using her femininity as an excuse for not going all out that day? I wouldn't. She had her reasons, and to her, that day, they were valid. It had nothing to do with her being female, just with her being worried about a big day in her life.
I've seen men make similar choices and push themselves less sometimes. Or more, and then say it was because a female was present. Would you say then, when men are pushing themselves really hard in the presence of a female, they are using their masculinity as an excuse?
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caligurl4evr78
Oct 20, 2002, 7:09 AM
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I am new to climbing but whenever I participate in a challenging sport I'm not ashamed of knowing my limits or what I feel comfortable pushing myself to...and if guys have less expectations of me it just makes it easier to set my own limits. Besides, Im always the one who needs MORE limits not LESS so a so a little chauvinism (not justified but deff effective b/c I'd rather give in and enjoy the day than get on everyone's bad side) probly helps me not get too crazy. Anyone relate? Or am I totally off base? I think if you are confident in your own person then guys being disrespectful are just a minor annoyance and not a huge source of frustration.
-Ann
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missedyno
Oct 22, 2002, 7:34 PM
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LOL... i took auto mechanics too. it was fun when a bunch of guys wouldn't let me play and they tried to jack the car up on the OILPAN!!! lol lol i had to show them where the transmission case was, and they dented the oilpan. so funny!
they let me play along after that...
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russmanswife
Oct 22, 2002, 8:09 PM
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just an afterthought i used to work in sawmill long long time ago only female in the whole building (there were only two of us total) the only thing worse than the guys not letting you do things because you are a girl is being coddled like you don't have the physical ability to do it. i worked just as hard as them if not harder most of the time. my hubby does it to me too. instead of teaching me the right way to lead and set up the anchor he had me do it another way with quickdraws and then he had to go up and clean it for me, yes i got on his case. i can do it if you let me i will let you know if i can't why is that so hard for men to understand?
bobbi
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missedyno
Oct 22, 2002, 9:49 PM
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bah, let's not generalize, or it'll become a heated debate and then all of our posts will disapear...
sure we say we are flattered if the person we are with opens the door for us, but i also like to do that for my partner, it's a respect thing. i'm not old fashioned, i'm not 100% "feminazi".
i have to admit sometimes that it's okay to have stuff done for ya... but russmanswife is right, you have to catch yourself doing it and say "hey i need to know how to do that" in this case, it could mean our safety.
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