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jimbop
Nov 18, 2007, 11:09 PM
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Hi all,
I am conducting research at the Warwick Centre for the Study of Sport in Society, looking at aspects of communication in mountain sports. I have created a quick questionnaire, just 17 multiple choice questions, which I would be very grateful to you all for filling in. Warwick has strong connections with industry and this research is likely to be used as a basis for new sports specific communication aids.
The questionnaire comes in 2 parts (due to formatting restrictions). Please follow the links to each part (surveymonkey.com is a web based questionnaire service).
Part 1)
http://www.surveymonkey.com/...9rs1mPg6Myfhrg_3d_3d
Part 2)
http://www.surveymonkey.com/...onfiuQKBh9uCqA_3d_3d
I thank you in advance for your valuable contribution to this research. Please email any queries to j.e.m.bennett@warwick.ac.uk.
Kind regards
James
(University of Warwick)
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andypro
Nov 19, 2007, 12:07 AM
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That was pleasantly short and to the point. No extraneous demographic questions that just annoy you and make you not want to complete it.
Is there a way we can see the compiled results? I'm curious as to what your findings will be.
--Andy P
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jimbop
Nov 19, 2007, 12:25 AM
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Thanks andypro. The questionnaire will be running for a few months to acquire as much data as possible. I will post a full analysis of the results when it's complete but will try to give an update a bit sooner - need lots more people to complete it first though!
Thanks very much for your input :)
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themadmilkman
Nov 19, 2007, 5:13 PM
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Not to nitpick, but you really should ask the demographic questions last, not first. I don't remember the source, but I do remember reading fairly convincing studies showing that asking demographic questions first can skew the results of a survey.
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healyje
Nov 19, 2007, 6:00 PM
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Lately I've been seeing climbers use cell phones to communicate "off belay" - now that's progress.
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mcfoley
Nov 19, 2007, 11:14 PM
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just completed the survey.
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rmsusa
Nov 19, 2007, 11:33 PM
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andypro wrote: healyje wrote: Lately I've been seeing climbers use cell phones to communicate "off belay" - now that's progress. That's disturbing, actually. Almost disgusting  --Andy P
I find it novel and interesting. Maybe I'll text my partner next time the belay is out of sight (VBG). IMHO people should learn rope signals, but whatever works. Disturbing???
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oldsalt
Nov 19, 2007, 11:52 PM
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I agree that it is disturbing. Many of the places I climb have no cell service at the base. We don't depend on cells or radios, largely because voice and rope signals don't require the combination of manual and visual interaction required to operate a handset.
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shockabuku
Nov 20, 2007, 12:45 AM
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Dude, put some monetary equivalents in the second part, I don't off-hand know the conversion from pounds to dollars.
And now I do. More useless trivia taking up storage space in my head.
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Nov 20, 2007, 12:48 AM)
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pwscottiv
Nov 20, 2007, 8:36 AM
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On long routes where I might not have a direct view of my partner or if it's windy we carry 5-watt Motorola business-band radios. However, most of the time it's not required, so we don't bring them.
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norushnomore
Nov 20, 2007, 10:00 AM
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Is there nothing more useful to research?
Best communication is to shut up and climb
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pwscottiv
Nov 20, 2007, 10:36 AM
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norushnomore wrote: Is there nothing more useful to research? Best communication is to shut up and climb
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jimbop
Nov 20, 2007, 12:01 PM
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Many thanks to all who have contributed so far. I have added an approximate conversion of £s to $s in the question but can do no more because of formatting limitations.
With regard to the mobile phones, I know that if I was the climber, I would want to be told something BEFORE my belayer took their hands off the belay! However, you should already have called "safe" before they call back "off belay"! I know that on a busy crag, "safe" calls can be coming from anywhere and it can be difficult to tell if it's from the person you are belaying or not. Although I have not witnessed a sever accident, the questionnaire so far shows that a significant proportion of accidents have been severe.
As said in the post, this research will form a basis for developing new communication aids - although this has issues with mountaineering ethics, as some have mentioned, it could also save lives!!
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healyje
Nov 20, 2007, 2:31 PM
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jimbop wrote: As said in the post, this research will form a basis for developing new communication aids - although this has issues with mountaineering ethics, as some have mentioned, it could also save lives!!
This would fall under the category of 'learn how to climb'. No further 'communication aids' are necessary. If folks need additional 'communication aids' they either they shouldn't be climbing whatever caused them to need such devices until they have the requisite skills to do so competently without them or shouldn't be climbing period.
This is another symptom of the desire to drive risk out of climbing and make it 'safe'. That turns climbing from 'climbing' to just another risk-free entertainment form. The odds are good such long-term trends will simply result in the dumbing-down of climbers from the perspective of their technical knowledge, capabilities on-route, and ability to 'natively' compensate for adversity.
In a word - people get hurt and die climbing - they will still get hurt and die climbing even with 'communication aids'. Their use will just as likely only shift the causal category of accidents as opposed to eliminating them.
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norushnomore
Nov 21, 2007, 2:29 AM
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pwscottiv wrote: norushnomore wrote: Is there nothing more useful to research? Best communication is to shut up and climb I agree... YOU should shut up.
Wow, what do we have here? Looks like you got offended by me making fun of your 30lb rack and your struggling partner that was sherping your crap for you.
Whatever dude, if you don't like my opinion then just move on or don't ask for one (I did not ask for backpack help nor did I solicit a communications feedback).
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pwscottiv
Nov 21, 2007, 4:52 AM
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norushnomore wrote: pwscottiv wrote: norushnomore wrote: Is there nothing more useful to research? Best communication is to shut up and climb I agree... YOU should shut up. Wow, what do we have here? Looks like you got offended by me making fun of your 30lb rack and your struggling partner that was sherping your crap for you. Whatever dude, if you don't like my opinion then just move on or don't ask for one (I did not ask for backpack help nor did I solicit a communications feedback).
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JohnCook
Nov 21, 2007, 5:03 AM
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There used to be ropes available with comm wires built in. They were supposed to be the next big thing in Alpine climbing. This was in the eighties. I will try to remember who made them if it will help. I expect they failed commercially, as the wires broke when they were fall tested.
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moose_droppings
Nov 21, 2007, 5:55 AM
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A study to figure out the best way to communicate? Thats what we've been reduced to?
Why not just WIFI all of amerika and take our puters up the route.
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pwscottiv
Nov 21, 2007, 6:21 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: A study to figure out the best way to communicate? Thats what we've been reduced to? Why not just WIFI all of amerika and take our puters up the route.
(This post was edited by pwscottiv on Nov 21, 2007, 6:24 AM)
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flint
Nov 21, 2007, 6:24 AM
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What ever happened to rope communications, two pulls means building anchor... three means come on up to get a beer... kind of things? I guess climbing with a well known partner cuts a great deal of that out as well.
Anyway, hope your study goes well, and for design, try to keep it practicul, no cell phone service should be needed.
j-
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healyje
Nov 21, 2007, 6:28 AM
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pwscottiv wrote: Using radios on routes where you know regular communication is going to be strained or impossible is an EXCELLENT option. If you're disagreeing with that, then you've personally never needed it or have never tried it.
You're right, in 33 years of climbing I've never needed electronics of any kind to climb. Do a long wandering pitch with sport draws on a high wind day and I bet you would like to have radios. Don't do it - sling appropriately or climb with half ropes. If drag is so bad you can't communicate through the ropes its too bad to climb with it as well. Avoiding such situations and circumstances is simply part of the craft.
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pwscottiv
Nov 21, 2007, 6:45 AM
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healyje wrote: pwscottiv wrote: Using radios on routes where you know regular communication is going to be strained or impossible is an EXCELLENT option. If you're disagreeing with that, then you've personally never needed it or have never tried it. You're right, in 33 years of climbing I've never needed electronics of any kind to climb. Do a long wandering pitch with sport draws on a high wind day and I bet you would like to have radios. Don't do it - sling appropriately or climb with half ropes. If drag is so bad you can't communicate through the ropes its too bad to climb with it as well. Avoiding such situations and circumstances is simply part of the craft.
(This post was edited by pwscottiv on Nov 21, 2007, 6:47 AM)
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norushnomore
Nov 21, 2007, 11:31 AM
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pwscottiv wrote: ...If you don't know about the topic in question then you probably shouldn't be responding at all. Get a life. ...I've been climbing for about 22 years now, originally learning how to climb through the Yosemite Climbing School when I was 10 and eventually even climbing as a guide for a while. I think I know my shit by now... ...I'm also an engineer, so that helps...
Looks like Majid got a competition for himself, new expert is in town.
So, what else do you carry with you on your climbs?
Please share for the benefit of all the noobs here.
So far you have mentioned:
1. Communication devices (a must have)
2. Approach shoes and rap cord (I guess you never know if you are going to top out or will have to bail  )
3. Camelback (at least two: one for you and one for her)
4. Route book (Xerox is for losers)
5. Her stuff (I am afraid to ask)
6. 30 pounds of gear (three "sets" of chocks organized by size, …)
7. Flashlight, shell
8. 8-plate (to backup my ATC and to rap)
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pwscottiv
Nov 21, 2007, 1:27 PM
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When I said "Get a life" I didn't mean for you to make me the center of it. So I'll be a bit more specific... Get your OWN life. I'm sure everyone on here already knows you're the resident climbing guru... Sorry if I stepped on your toes. I know you already know everything and your way is the best, er, ONLY way.
Maybe we should stop hijacking this guy's thread... I bet there's plenty more useful nuggets of information you can clog my thread up with. It's all yours climbing guru dude!
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