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irregularpanda
Jul 9, 2009, 8:22 PM
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losinghand wrote: Hey all - I'm a regular rc.com reader, and I was also one of the climbers who hung the banner on Rushmore today. I was sort of curious when someone would bring it up on one of the forums.... ;) Sadly, no, we weren't ground-up. There are existing bolts placed all over the monument, used by the parks rope-access team for cleaning the monument. That said, we did use a number of pieces of trad gear for anchoring our lines, and anchoring the banner. And as you can see from the video - it was insanely windy. We had a rough go of it - but safely deployed the banner, with no damage to the monument, or injuries to any of the climb team. There's a newly edited video up at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A9_xj77rcQ Good for you man. This sort of action makes me proud. America was founded on a history of organized civil (sometimes uncivil) disobedience. We should maintain this tradition by criticising the world around us, and by standing up for the rights we feel are important.
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bigdclimber
Jul 9, 2009, 8:28 PM
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Personally I think this is epic idea and event that wont be forgotten. Rock on and Climb on to all of those who participated. You guys are crazy and awesome.
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DexterRutecki
Jul 9, 2009, 9:16 PM
Post #53 of 271
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losinghand wrote: Hey all - I'm a regular rc.com reader, and I was also one of the climbers who hung the banner on Rushmore today. I was sort of curious when someone would bring it up on one of the forums.... ;) Sadly, no, we weren't ground-up. There are existing bolts placed all over the monument, used by the parks rope-access team for cleaning the monument. That said, we did use a number of pieces of trad gear for anchoring our lines, and anchoring the banner. And as you can see from the video - it was insanely windy. We had a rough go of it - but safely deployed the banner, with no damage to the monument, or injuries to any of the climb team. There's a newly edited video up at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A9_xj77rcQ I'm not reading past page 1 to post this reply, but I'm glad you're on here so I can say: You, and your organization, are a bunch of a**holes that do no good for your cause with your extreme, illegal tactics. There is "civil disobedience", and then there is trespassing on a federal monument and putting a giant banner up for your own interest. What if every interest group in this country acted the way you did? Should the NRA get some petzl equipment and put a big banner of Charleston Heston with an AK-47 up next to the site of your shennanigans? Standing up for the environment is good, Greanpace...not so much.
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xtrmecat
Jul 9, 2009, 9:54 PM
Post #54 of 271
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Eco terrorists. That's what they are. Giving the worst first impression to the world, time and time again. And they are not climbers. No self respecting climbers I know would try to impact the sport as negatively as they did. Thanks for nothing assholes. It will take 100,000 good acts to wipe this shit off all our records, so to speak. Bob
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camhead
Jul 9, 2009, 10:12 PM
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Just another post here to say way to go Greenpeace. that's awl. there is way too much stupid in this thread for me to even begin any more shit talking.
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builttospill
Jul 9, 2009, 10:16 PM
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I don't get into some of the talking points that Greenpeace is all about--i.e. I don't care nearly as much as they do about some of their issues. However, I agree with irregularpanda that civil disobedience is a small part of what makes this country great. So.....go for it. I mean, they got cited/arrested/whatever, so the law is still being applied to them, but you got your point across. I think Thoreau would be proud.
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kriso9tails
Jul 9, 2009, 10:23 PM
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xtrmecat wrote: Eco terrorists. Oh shit, here comes Greenpeace and they looked pissed. No, no! God no! Not the banners! Please, anything but the bann... AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRHHHHGGGGGGGgggggg... ... ... ...</dies in agony and horror>
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james481
Jul 9, 2009, 10:54 PM
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I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about someone hanging a banner on Rushmore, and I think that some of the evidence that humans are causing global warming (and what consequences that might have) is dubious at best, but that's neither here nor there. It always fascinates me how caring and eco-conscious climbers generally make themselves out to be. I mean, let's be real with ourselves here: We often drive hundreds of miles in our gas burning cars, camp in pristine wilderness, strap on shoes (made from petroleum and leather and shipped from China), tie in to a nylon rope (also made from petroleum, and probably shipped from China), and load ourselves down with all manner of aluminum biners and pro (all of which uses massive amounts of electricity to produce and then is shipped overseas) so that we can feel good by not killing ourselves doing something that the vast majority of people would say is a downright silly pastime. Then we turn around and say "damn all you people who are destroying the planet for no reason!" In other words, if it's something we want to do (and don't get me wrong, I love me some climbing), then it's perfectly justifiable, but everyone else are just irresponsible assholes because they throw out their junk mail instead of recycling it. Hypocrisy, anyone?
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builttospill
Jul 9, 2009, 11:06 PM
Post #60 of 271
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james481 wrote: I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about someone hanging a banner on Rushmore, and I think that some of the evidence that humans are causing global warming (and what consequences that might have) is dubious at best, but that's neither here nor there. It always fascinates me how caring and eco-conscious climbers generally make themselves out to be. I mean, let's be real with ourselves here: We often drive hundreds of miles in our gas burning cars, camp in pristine wilderness, strap on shoes (made from petroleum and leather and shipped from China), tie in to a nylon rope (also made from petroleum, and probably shipped from China), and load ourselves down with all manner of aluminum biners and pro (all of which uses massive amounts of electricity to produce and then is shipped overseas) so that we can feel good by not killing ourselves doing something that the vast majority of people would say is a downright silly pastime. Then we turn around and say "damn all you people who are destroying the planet for no reason!" In other words, if it's something we want to do (and don't get me wrong, I love me some climbing), then it's perfectly justifiable, but everyone else are just irresponsible assholes because they throw out their junk mail instead of recycling it. Hypocrisy, anyone? That's how it is with almost any activity. Whenever a climber dies or has to be rescued, the local newspaper website is full of comments from non-climbers about how stupid and dangerous it is. And then these same people hunt, hike, scuba dive, ride 4 wheelers, drive way too quickly, smoke, do drugs, consume alcohol, eat unhealthy food, are overweight and otherwise try to kill themselves in every way imaginable. And on this website people bitch about fat people, and other stupid things people do, and yet we take "senseless" risks ourselves. Everyone likes to complain about other people and make fun of the stuff they do, without realizing that they are quite similar in their behaviors (as you pointed out).
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kriso9tails
Jul 9, 2009, 11:23 PM
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james481 wrote: Hypocrisy, anyone? Possibly, but not necessarily. If everyone practiced a bit of moderation, certain people probably wouldn't feel the need to push their environmentalism to such an extreme. I'm not perfect in every aspect of my life with regard to environmental issues, but I do take a lot of measures to reduce my footprint. I don't expect other people to be perfect either, but I do expect them to make some effort to moderate their consumption and impact.
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moose_droppings
Jul 9, 2009, 11:54 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: I'm not going to start an argument about how important global warming is or is not, but I think it was a cool idea and wish there were more people in this country with that kind of passion, even if it were about issues I don't support. I don't, however, think that the banner should "stay," no matter how they put it up. Do you really think it should stay up forever? If I did a ground up FA of a new route in Arches NP or even just Yosemite, would you want the banner that I put up to stay forever? Your taking the 'banner should stay' a bit to seriously. Other than that your right, it was a great idea. If you want to get national exposure to your agenda, Mt Rushmore screams, "do it here". On the plus side, its shown some holes in their security that will now get plugged. On the negative side, they could widen the perimeter around the monument that restricts access to some great climbing such as the Washington Wall on the backside. I really don't see them doing that though. Area climbers and the Rushmore administrators have had a very close and mutually respectful friendship for years. I'm pretty sure it would take more than a one time stunt from some non-locals to raise their hackles. So far, no harm, no foul. Good job GreenPeace.
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james481
Jul 10, 2009, 12:43 AM
Post #65 of 271
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kriso9tails wrote: james481 wrote: Hypocrisy, anyone? Possibly, but not necessarily. If everyone practiced a bit of moderation, certain people probably wouldn't feel the need to push their environmentalism to such an extreme. Well, I agree that a dose of moderation is probably not a bad thing, but I somehow doubt many of the most extreme environmentalist types will ever really be happy, no matter what the general population does to reduce our impact.
In reply to: I'm not perfect in every aspect of my life with regard to environmental issues, but I do take a lot of measures to reduce my footprint. I don't expect other people to be perfect either, but I do expect them to make some effort to moderate their consumption and impact. Well, no one is perfect, and I'm certainly far from it. I was just pointing out the absurdity that many climbers (and many other people) fall into when they bitch and moan about things like people driving their "gas guzzling SUVs" to work, right after returning from hundreds or thousands of miles of driving or flying to go climb a rock.
(This post was edited by james481 on Jul 10, 2009, 12:44 AM)
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mikeboomer12
Jul 10, 2009, 1:36 AM
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What would you suggest is more important...?
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therat
Jul 10, 2009, 2:33 AM
Post #67 of 271
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knieveltech wrote: dingus wrote: asellers98 wrote: As far as impact? What kind of climbing backlash will result from this? What kind of change is going to come from this politically? From now on climbing on Rushmore shall be illegal. There's your backlash. Sheesh. DMT I thought it was already illegal. Rushmore looks like choss anyway. I've read through this entire thread three times now... and although many posts are loaded with left wing spew, this one just seems to jump out at me. Doesn't anyone care about access issues anymore? Choss or not (this dumb ass obviously knows nothing about the area), this incredibly stupid act could have negatively affected Uncle Sam's view toward climber access. Go ahead... care about your own local area... and just shit all over someone else's. In the mean time, I'll just turn the clock back to the first half of the 20th Century when ethics meant something... and "Global Warming" wasn't an issue. Wait... weren't there more Class V Hurricanes in the first half of the Century than the second? Then maybe I'll head back to the "Stone Age"... and pray that "Dinosaur Emissions" don't set off another Ice Age...
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knieveltech
Jul 10, 2009, 2:42 AM
Post #68 of 271
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happiegrrrl wrote: xtrmecat wrote: ...No self respecting climbers I know would try to impact the sport as negatively as they did. I have quite a bit of self-respect, and I would have joined with that project in a second. Hell, I'da done it just to get a chance to kite surf a giant banner of the prez's head up the face of Mt. Rushmore. Who needs a cause?
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knieveltech
Jul 10, 2009, 2:54 AM
Post #69 of 271
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therat wrote: knieveltech wrote: dingus wrote: asellers98 wrote: As far as impact? What kind of climbing backlash will result from this? What kind of change is going to come from this politically? From now on climbing on Rushmore shall be illegal. There's your backlash. Sheesh. DMT I thought it was already illegal. Rushmore looks like choss anyway. I've read through this entire thread three times now... and although many posts are loaded with left wing spew, this one just seems to jump out at me. Doesn't anyone care about access issues anymore? Choss or not (this dumb ass obviously knows nothing about the area), ...blah blah blah What, you've climbed Rushmore and are here to tell us that despite all appearances in photos and video it actually isn't choss? Actually, I know a few things about the area: 1. it's in the middle of bum fuck South Dakota 2. it's off limits to climbing 3. it looks like complete choss Given these three points I see no compelling reason to drive to South Dakota, and while I'm being REALLY frank I could give a fuck if it collapsed into a pile of rubble and am endlessly amused that all of this is pissing people off, especially you. Go organize an adopt-a-crag or something.
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curt
Jul 10, 2009, 3:23 AM
Post #70 of 271
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knieveltech wrote: Actually, I know a few things about the area: 1. it's in the middle of bum fuck South Dakota 2. it's off limits to climbing 3. it looks like complete choss Given these three points I see no compelling reason to drive to South Dakota, and while I'm being REALLY frank I could give a fuck if it collapsed into a pile of rubble and am endlessly amused that all of this is pissing people off... I can help clarify: 1) Some of the finest and most historic rock climbing in the United States is in the Needles, Cathedral Spires and Rushmore areas of South Dakota. 2) Only Rushmore itself (and the very immediate area) is, so far, off limits to climbing--and hopefully it will stay that way. 3) You're a fucking idiot. Were your parents much closer than first cousins? Curt
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therat
Jul 10, 2009, 3:28 AM
Post #71 of 271
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knieveltech wrote: therat wrote: knieveltech wrote: dingus wrote: asellers98 wrote: As far as impact? What kind of climbing backlash will result from this? What kind of change is going to come from this politically? From now on climbing on Rushmore shall be illegal. There's your backlash. Sheesh. DMT I thought it was already illegal. Rushmore looks like choss anyway. I've read through this entire thread three times now... and although many posts are loaded with left wing spew, this one just seems to jump out at me. Doesn't anyone care about access issues anymore? Choss or not (this dumb ass obviously knows nothing about the area), ...blah blah blah What, you've climbed Rushmore and are here to tell us that despite all appearances in photos and video it actually isn't choss? Actually, I know a few things about the area: 1. it's in the middle of bum fuck South Dakota 2. it's off limits to climbing 3. it looks like complete choss Given these three points I see no compelling reason to drive to South Dakota, and while I'm being REALLY frank I could give a fuck if it collapsed into a pile of rubble and am endlessly amused that all of this is pissing people off, especially you. Go organize an adopt-a-crag or something. 1. Western bum fuck South Dakota 2. Pick up a guide book (if you have a job), read it (if you can) and educate yourself on the area (even though you don't give a shit) 3. Pristine routes like "Baba Cool"... "Weird Water"... and the impeccable "Gossamer" (which has a big hole in it that bears a striking resemblance to Knieveltech's Ass Hole...) may be too difficult for your ability. But the pictures sure look nice...
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veganclimber
Jul 10, 2009, 3:38 AM
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dynosore wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: dynosore wrote: The gov. has found a new way to tax us, period. Considering that our government seems to be dragging it's feet, kicking and screaming, over reduction of emissions and such, I'd be interested to read just what new taxes you are referring to. Please - take your time and outline well. Educate me; I'm just a simple person who got lost in HS Algebra while I was out sick for a few days. http://online.wsj.com/...733423766063691.html How's 1.3-1.9 TRILLION in new taxes sound to ya? This is a tax on energy producers. Some of the money will fund alternative energy, most of it will be used to tax cuts to those who need them. "A White House official wouldn't confirm Mr. Furman's comments, but said excess revenues from any cap and trade bill that passes Congress will be used to compensate vulnerable families, communities and businesses."
In reply to: Whether you like my point or not, it's a fact that most people have never looked at any of the data or models themselves, Most people are incapable of doing so.
In reply to: but buy manmade GW because the media rammed it down their gullible throats. Listening to the National Academy of Sciences makes you gullible? How about listening to Nobel Prize winning scientists?
In reply to: I prefer to not be a sheep and I dig into things to find the truth. I know that's not popular in our spoon fed nanny society. Oh well. And what did you come up with in your search for the truth? What do you know that all these scientists studying global warming don't?
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moose_droppings
Jul 10, 2009, 3:54 AM
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Black Hills granite is choss???????? FAIL
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veganclimber
Jul 10, 2009, 3:56 AM
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I'm noticing a pattern here:
dynosore wrote: All that man-made GW hysteria proves is that if you tell non-thinking people something often enough they'll believe it.
dynosore wrote: Whether you like my point or not, it's a fact that most people have never looked at any of the data or models themselves, but buy manmade GW because the media rammed it down their gullible throats. I prefer to not be a sheep and I dig into things to find the truth. I know that's not popular in our spoon fed nanny society. Oh well.
dynosore wrote: I'll say it again: I'm not a Republican, and I'm for reducing fossil fuel usage. But the GW scare, and cap and trade legislation, are for those who lack understanding.
dynosore wrote: I have a feeling that if the media had been railing on about the imminent alien invasion for the last 5 years like they have about GW, people would be watching the heavens waiting for death from above. Lots of talk about how gullible everybody else is for believing in what the majority of scientists are telling them, no arguments to dispute the actual science.
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irregularpanda
Jul 10, 2009, 4:01 AM
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knieveltech wrote: Awesome! I appreciate your efforts at subversion regardless of my own personal cause. So out of curiosity what kind of charges are the climb team looking at? Trespassing surely. Vandalism? Defacing a national monument? I fixed that for you. This debate is like abortion, certain sides will never truly agree, because it's the fundamental principles that drive us apart. What this kid should be applauded for is actually standing up for what he believes in. It's people like that who gave us women's right to vote, and de-segregation of blacks and whites. It's people like that who care enough for a cause to hold their leaders to a higher standard, and demand that their voices be heard. We heard your opinion already. Put down the whiskey and read what you typed tomorrow.
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