If you want people to join your organization dont be a cocksucker. The in particular i'm thinking about was at Pilot. I was talking with one of the rangers about a situation. She overheard, came out and physically pushed me away. Again fuck the CCC.

2. We did not retro fit "top-rope" anchors on trad routes at the New. We retro fitted top anchors. That some people will use those to top rope is inevitable, I suppose, but the intent is to preserve cliff-top habitat -- AND IT WORKS.

You sound like another member. I'm sorry if I am asking for the least bit of courtesy and respect from the CCC. The CCC can't even answer an email when sent to them. Why do they need me as a member when they're not even organized enough to keep up with email.

I am a member. And I am damn thankful that there are people willing to volunteer their time and effort to secure Carolina's climbing resources. I am also well aware that the CCC provides me with benefits that are far more valuable than my meager yearly contribution. Sorry you didn't have an email returned to you. But let's just remember that the CCC is a volunteer organization. The active members also have jobs, families, and they even like to climb on occasion. I highly doubt that anyone within the CCC has it in for you, or purposely ignored your "friend".

I am going to be honest here. I am the person who ignored his friend. I did it because I am part of the secret cabal of the CCC. There are actually two groups. One of them is the one that people like you can join. The second is secret and only known about by people who have proven their value. I will probably be excommunicated, but the truth had to be known. Ignoring emails is only one part of the CCC's notorious dealings. You have been warned.

the climbing at a given crag is the climbing at a given crag, and if you want to do something different, go climb someplace else.

My only argument is eventually that tree is gonna die eventually from use, or depending on how close to the edge it could fall after it gets too large and the soil will no longer support the weight of the tree.

If you're proficient at it, then it's just as easy and equally safe to belay from the top with a gear anchor. There's no reason that people who don't know how belay from a gear anchor shouldn't learn how.

It's not about adventure, it's about having a skill that is necessary for climbing. I don't understand what the big deal is about people placing a few pieces?

It's also about not permanately screwing up the rock. Bolts make a permanent scar. Climbing in some places you'll notice the weird little holes, why make them if they're not needed?

If your cragging is about mileage then why don't you go to a gym, it's loads safer and you'll get way more mileage without having to deal with the pesky gear, leading, guidebooks, bugs, trails, weather, etc.

You might not climb harder from building anchors but you'll be faster and more proficient at it with practice.

I'm a minimalist when it comes to bolts so I'll say it again. Why place the bolt if it's not necessary. It's a real easy ethical premise in which I can think of a few circumstances where it's necessary.

I think the most salient point in the whole thread was this one made by Clausti:


Unfortunately for her, It doesn't actually support Camhead's rant.

To wit, plenty of single pitch trad lines don't need bolts at the top, the locals don't want them, and they're more than popular enough without you on the climb. If socializing at the base of the climb is your priority, find something else to climb.

GO

It would be funny if, A. you were not apart of that secret CCC sect and B. I never asked for bolts on a route, just some fixed gear to rap off of.

Well, from what I've heard about the speed he and gmburns move at, this is not surprising.

at the New, specifically at bridge buttress, the tiny, concentrated clifftop environment was getting *creamed.* those anchors are a good thing.

Clausti, haven't seen you since Squamish, Up Among the Firs. Hope you are well. Was nice to running into you.

I think you may under estimate the impact of top-ropers and guided groups that still traipse around up there. The number of folks actually leading and cleaning routes at the bridge is smaller than the guided groups and the top ropers.

Last time I was there were 4 of us leading or cleaning. There were ~12 TRing.

Dude, this is such a dumb topic.

Ethics need to stand in their respective areas as they were developed.

If NC is about sparse gear and long runouts, and Boulder canyon is grid bolted, well, so be it.

Just let it be.

I think that there is no problem on single pitch trad routes for fixed anchors, it reduces tat and fixed gear, but if that is the local ethic, let it stand.

Cheers,
B-

Ah, but Boulder Canyon was not always grid bolted.

And changes in ethics get applied retroactively to routes that were good enough (or freaking fantastic) as they were previously. The thorn in my side is Linear Encounters. The problem route for Jay is Party. In Big Cottonwood, home of badass slick quartzite routes with finicky gear and occasionally scary runouts, routes are getting retrobolted as new sport lines. Same goes for Boulder Canyon. There's a discussion about it on Mountain Project.

These areas that are now sport havens often have history that goes unremembered and gets disrespected.