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dreday3000
Dec 31, 2009, 6:37 PM
Post #26 of 76
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hansundfritz wrote: I also thought that the photography was pretty lame for such a photogenic place. And am I correct that they used a fish-eye lens to shoot Madmen, making it look steeper than it really is?
Actually I thought the photography was pretty good. Certainly not the best shots I've Seneca I've seen, but they were pretty good on the whole.
And Madmen is fairly steep. Not cave steep, but steep enough.
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hansundfritz
Dec 31, 2009, 6:41 PM
Post #27 of 76
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The photos were okay, I guess. But like I said, it's so photogenic and so easy, really, to photograph. The pictures didn't capture the real magic of the place, in my opinion.
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indy_md
Dec 31, 2009, 6:55 PM
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camhead wrote: olderic wrote: camhead wrote: IsayAutumn wrote: camhead wrote: Heh. I still have not checked out Seneca since I moved east, and part of the reason I have not yet is because I have gotten the impression that it is a gumby-fest riddled with falling rocks and idiots. I haven't looked at the article yet. I heard it was because you were scared. Yes, fat traddies yarding on choss does scare the hell out of me. Absolutely. Definitely better for you to stay in grade inflated e-climbing land where you and yours can spray to your heart's content - you know - stick to what you are good at. Damn. I guess I'll have to make a trip out to Seneca just to piss you guys off.  
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stan
Dec 31, 2009, 9:59 PM
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Well, well, well....I guess that I have an advantage in that I have climbed at Seneca for 30 years.
Also the Gunks for 53 years. To say Seneca has a lot of Gumbies is accurate, but the reason that not many venture on to the hard stuff is that it is hard and steep. Let's see you hot shots get on some of the Eddie Begoon climbs! As for the cave....it's a good place to get out of the rain. Seneca, and West Va. always seems like home for me with none of the spray and BS that I have found at other crags.
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rockandlice
Dec 31, 2009, 11:51 PM
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wanderlustmd wrote: However, the idea that no one climbs Castor, Pollux, Orangeaid, Nip and Tuck, etc. is wrong. I've seen plenty of people on those climbs. The whole, "we were being watched closely by locals because we were on 5.10s" bit was kind of lame. The article published back in '98 was better.
My thoughts as well. I 'bout puked in my mouth when I read the 'being watched closely' and "The next morning word was out & everyone wanted to ask us about the 5.10s." comments.
Yeah buddy, your ascents were the talk of the town. 
There is a reason people like this asshat aren't regulars at Seneca.
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dreday3000
Jan 1, 2010, 4:55 PM
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stan wrote: Let's see you hot shots get on some of the Eddie Begoon climbs! .
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hyhuu
Jan 4, 2010, 4:29 PM
Post #33 of 76
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dreday3000 wrote: stan wrote: Let's see you hot shots get on some of the Eddie Begoon climbs! . Begoon routes are great. That guy could crimp! Routes by by Begoon, Prothro, Swoager, and Shull always stand out.
Back then when I was breaking into leading 5.10s at Seneca, one day I managed to struggle and huff my way up Mongoose. A few days latter while chatting with Tony Barnes, I mentioned to him that I felt Mongoose was really hard for a 5.10a comparing to other 5.10a. He bursted out laughing and said "Do you know who put up that route? It's Eddie Begoon. He doesn't know what a 5.10a is".
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j_ung
Jan 6, 2010, 2:03 AM
Post #34 of 76
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zxcv wrote: What's a gumby? I always thought a "noobie" was a new and potentially dangerous leader, so is a gumby a safe but mid-level leader? If so, I'm fine being a gumby.
Confused about the definition of "gumby?" Let's go a little old-school RC.com...
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...iew_flat;post=627369
Edit: Cue flashback music!
(This post was edited by j_ung on Jan 6, 2010, 2:04 AM)
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cclarke
Jan 6, 2010, 4:04 PM
Post #35 of 76
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"hyhuu wrote: Back then when I was breaking into leading 5.10s at Seneca, one day I managed to struggle and huff my way up Mongoose. A few days latter while chatting with Tony Barnes, I mentioned to him that I felt Mongoose was really hard for a 5.10a comparing to other 5.10a. He bursted out laughing and said "Do you know who put up that route? It's Eddie Begoon. He doesn't know what a 5.10a is".
For about a decade after most of the old 5.9s were upgraded, I thought Mongoose was the biggest sandbag left at Seneca. I think it is now called 10d which is probably about right.
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guangzhou
Jan 7, 2010, 1:32 AM
Post #36 of 76
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I just read the article. I had already seen this thread when I read it and what stuck me was that the writer never really ventured beyond the 5.9 to low end 5.10 range either.
I've climbed all over the U.S. and I can honestly say, in most trad climbing areas, if you climb 5.10 or 5.11, you rarely have to stand in line. It's not a grade most people reach when climbing trad.
My two cents
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camhead
Jan 7, 2010, 2:01 AM
Post #37 of 76
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guangzhou wrote: I've climbed all over the U.S. and I can honestly say, in most trad climbing areas, if you climb 5.10 or 5.11, you rarely have to stand in line. It's not a grade most people reach when climbing trad. My two cents
True. And, another reason that Indian Creek is not a "trad area."
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andersjr
Jan 7, 2010, 8:52 PM
Post #38 of 76
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I have made a few trips to Seneca (very limited experience). I have done Castor, Polluk and Crack of Fear. It is such a unique rock to anything I have ever seen. I am afraid to push my limits because of the rocks sharpness as well as how polished it is (still haven't weighted gear there yet. . .). One bad move and you could be going for a long ride. It is a place that tests your mental as well as your physical. I can't wait for the season to start again.
This guys article is a joke. He thought he was the talk of the camp, but he was probably just the douche of the camp.
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miklaw
Jan 12, 2010, 1:40 AM
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I thought the Seneca article was a bit light. I don’t think the article really conveyed what a sandbag of a place Seneca is, I’d say it’s undergraded a full number grade in many cases. I’ve backed off 10b’s there and onsighted 12b’s the next day at The New. The area ethos isn’t “what’s the highest we can grade this?” but “What is the lowest grade we can put on this without bursting out laughing”.
Part of the weird grading there is just history, many routes were full of pitons when they went free. Forty years later the pitons have mostly fallen out and some climbs can be a lot harder to protect, and do. The dudes probably attracted attention because they weren’t locals, not because they were doing a bunch of the better protected 5.10s. BTW I think Ambush is really at The New if you know what I mean; easy and well protected). If they’d done routes left of Madmen Only they might have attracted some attention.
Yes, you'd get many 10 and 11 leaders at The New, for example, but if they came to Seneca, they'd be on the 8's and having a great time. Different styles of climbing.
In fairness if I had to write an article about somewhere I didn’t know and climbed a bunch of easy classics, I wouldn’t do a great job either. I think R&I prefers to use journos (who can write and spell) rather than locals (who know the area). Pity.
(This post was edited by miklaw on Jan 13, 2010, 1:57 AM)
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stredna
Jan 14, 2010, 4:49 PM
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cclarke wrote: It's an article written by someone who hasn't spent much time at Seneca so it's hardly surprising that it's superficial and somewhat misleading. It's also Rock and Ice so what do you expect? Edit: It's not really a bad article but it's kind of silly to think anyone will notice or care if you climb 5.10-5.11 there. Nice to see Hunt and Ray get some play.
The writing is trash. Rock & Ice should look for authors who dont bash "gumbies" or colloquially known as people having fun in the moment. I'm glad the author lives west of the mississippi, cause he would be to big for his britches on this side.
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hyhuu
Jan 14, 2010, 5:24 PM
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If the author had left out a few of those "self-important" sentences, it would have been a fairly decent article. It's too bad because those lines don't any values to the article and more of a distraction. One surprise thing was they didn't do any climbs at the "Face of a thousand pitons" but instead spending time at the Southern Pillar and lower slab. BTW, Ambush could prob qualify as a high ball boulder problem elsewhere.
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dreday3000
Jan 14, 2010, 6:32 PM
Post #43 of 76
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Has anyone ever done Ambush?
I've never even seen it but the photos make it look pretty cool.....its not that thing that comes out to the left of the cave is it? The start to muscle beach?
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scrapedape
Jan 14, 2010, 6:59 PM
Post #44 of 76
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hyhuu wrote: One surprise thing was they didn't do any climbs at the "Face of a thousand pitons" but instead spending time at the Southern Pillar and lower slab.
Agreed. The "awed locals" were probably more curious over where they had chosen to climb than what they had chosen to climb.
There are certainly plenty of parts of Seneca that see relatively little traffic, e.g. the North Peak, especially on its West Face. I suspect this is as much due to the additional approach as to climbing difficulty. I've rarely been to Seneca and not seen folks on the likes of Castor and Pollux.
Never seen anyone on p2 of Totem, however.
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hyhuu
Jan 14, 2010, 7:20 PM
Post #45 of 76
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dreday3000 wrote: Has anyone ever done Ambush? I've never even seen it but the photos make it look pretty cool.....its not that thing that comes out to the left of the cave is it? The start to muscle beach?
I've done it a couple times. The climb is on the Southern Pillar (not the South End) and just to the left of Blocky Party. It's very short and needs no more than 3 pieces of gears.
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cclarke
Jan 14, 2010, 7:49 PM
Post #46 of 76
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dreday3000 wrote: Has anyone ever done Ambush?
Ambush is ok. If you go over there, you could check out Daytripper Direct which is a very nice and fairly challenging 5.11. Daytripper itself is often a little damp and not that exciting but the direct continuation of the regular route is worthy.
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dreday3000
Jan 14, 2010, 11:12 PM
Post #47 of 76
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cclarke wrote: dreday3000 wrote: Has anyone ever done Ambush? Ambush is ok. If you go over there, you could check out Daytripper Direct which is a very nice and fairly challenging 5.11. Daytripper itself is often a little damp and not that exciting but the direct continuation of the regular route is worthy.
Good to know, I don't get over to the Southern Pillar much. I only know a handful of good 11s at Seneca so its always nice to find something else to check out. You recommend anything else?
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cclarke
Jan 15, 2010, 5:02 AM
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dreday3000 wrote: Good to know, I don't get over to the Southern Pillar much. I only know a handful of good 11s at Seneca so its always nice to find something else to check out. You recommend anything else?
In the same area, you can do Judgment Seat which is one of the better 5.10s at Seneca and, from the Judgment Seat itself at the end of the first pitch, exit the alcove to the right and follow a sweet stemming/edging corner past some fixed pro and nuts/cams at moderate 5.11. It's not in the guidebook but it is good.
For you, I would also recommend the Samurai Wall. Really great thin quartzite face/crack routes. Each route is real 5.12. It's on the West Face below Front C. Easy to check out on toprope first.
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wallmonkey35
Jan 15, 2010, 7:19 AM
Post #49 of 76
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For me, this article was a slap in the face to many Seneca climbers. Besides all of the obvious points that were already mentioned (author did not climb enough routes, too much ego-boosting, odd route selections to write about) a few other things really struck me.
First off, Ambush, while being rated 5.11 is by far the easiest and least committing 5.11 at Seneca. While it is still a great, fun, and challenging route, it is a one move wonder and only needs 3 pieces of gear to protect the entire route! If you really want to get a taste of a true Seneca .11 go and hop on terraferma homesick blues. Now that's a route!
Also, of course a majority of the classic 5.10s routes would be crowd-free when you went to climb them. It was MIDWEEK. Has anyone every been to Seneca midweek? NO routes have a line for them, not just the 5.10s.
Last, it just so happened that the during the same time the author was at Seneca, a "local" climber actually came and flashed a .12, The Bell. A VERY impressive feat. Why wasn't this gentleman the "talk of the town" that week? I know, because unlike the author, this person (as most Seneca climbers would) did not feel the need to spew about his latest send. Having a sizable ego does not make up for a lacking in size somewhere else.
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johnwesely
Jan 15, 2010, 1:28 PM
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For what it is worth, my climbing partner said the article made him really want to go to Seneca. I have not read it.
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