Its like this: If you are barely seizuring your way up a .13c, it might feel good when you get to the top, but when you think back on it you know its not fully mastered. Onsighting or casually redpoitning a .13a with grace shows alot more climbing skill IMO.
Its like this: If you are barely seizuring your way up a .13c, it might feel good when you get to the top, but when you think back on it you know its not fully mastered. Onsighting or casually redpoitning a .13a with grace shows alot more climbing skill IMO.
It only shows that climber not climibng at his limit, which doesn;t mean he's gonna do any better on the 13.c
lena_chita wrote:I am not sure what you mean by 'barely making it".
If by barely making it you mean hang everywhere, grab draws, step on bolts, and get help from rope tension -- then no, I would rather send an easier climb with style, without any questions or allegations abour whether I really climbed it cleanly. There have been couple climbs that I was happy to just get to the anchors on, but they aren't something to be proud of-- unless I eventually go back and send cleanly.
If by barely making it you mean that it took forever to redpoint, you were not at all certain you could do it, and you sent it finally on a day where the conditions, and your climbing shape, were just right, and still only managed to do it by the skin of your teeth, but are not at all sure you would be able to repeat it once more... then sure, count me in that category, I would be WAAAYY more proud of that barely-able-to-do-it send than of sending an easier climb.
I don't mean grabbing draws or having to hike the rope or even taking...I mean barely making it as in, it felt a little desperate and just out of your comfort zone. You may not have fallen, but it was more due to luck that you didn't fall. So you could claim onsight if you wanted. As opposed to climbing a slightly easier climb that you send with confidence and style...it feels more natural to you. I know I didn't bring all the different types of rock into play...overhung, crack, slab, arete, etc into play with the poll, but we can if you want to, also.
I'm kind of disappointed. I thought this would be like....Would you Rather....Eat a live spider......or a dead cockroach.
But, anyways...Generally, I like to send stuff in good style. But what inspires me more than anything is the quality and aesthetics of the climb, whether it's harder or not. I would rather hangdog a stellar line than send a choss pile.
I don't mean grabbing draws or having to hike the rope or even taking...I mean barely making it as in, it felt a little desperate and just out of your comfort zone. You may not have fallen, but it was more due to luck that you didn't fall. So you could claim onsight if you wanted. As opposed to climbing a slightly easier climb that you send with confidence and style...it feels more natural to you.
Oh, in that case, I would rather just barely make it. A send is a send. There is something cool about being able to do something that you are not sure you could repeat. Whether it was the perfect combination of strength, rest, alertness, nutrition, attitude, luck, and the stars were aligned just so? You just sit back and revel in what may never happen again. That's pretty cool.
So we need clarification from Karmi as to what she meant in the OP!
Really? Perhaps because English is not my first language, but it seems very clear to me that "barely making it" means exactly that: to be able to make it, but not by a large margin. What you interpreted in your previous post - hanging, tension, falling, etc - is NOT making it (barely or otherwise).
(This post was edited by yokese on Feb 1, 2010, 8:41 PM)
So we need clarification from Karmi as to what she meant in the OP!
Really? Perhaps because English is not my first language, but it seems very clear to me that "barely making it" means exactly that: to be able to make it, but not by a large margin. What you interpreted in your previous post - hanging, tension, falling, etc - is NOT making it (barely or otherwise).
I agree! But myself and at least one other would have chosen "barely" had we known what she intended. Instead we chose "easier." (I didn't actually cast a vote in the poll though). I think some others might have made a similar choice.
And now this poor poll doesn't offer a choice for the person who WOULD rather grovel their way - any way they can - to the top.
I'm kind of disappointed. I thought this would be like....Would you Rather....Eat a live spider......or a dead cockroach.
But, anyways...Generally, I like to send stuff in good style. But what inspires me more than anything is the quality and aesthetics of the climb, whether it's harder or not. I would rather hangdog a stellar line than send a choss pile.
I am a male. Dead Cockroach.
Josh
I know an old lady who swallowed a fly. I don't know why she swallowed a fly. I guess she'll die.
Just curious as to how important "doing it right" as opposed to "getting it done" is. Please include your gender and why you picked your answer. Thanks!
I'd really like to have honest answers too...we will all assume 5.13 C is the hard grade and 5.13 a is the easier grade. Which is more meaningful...the grade or the style?
Well each has its merits for sure. But, if I could climb 13a let alone 13c, wow, that would be something. Gender: "Dude"
'Getting it done' climbs are fun in a very addicting way. These are usually the climbs where' I've 'almost' fallen, stayed on only by that involuntary body clench of fear, and scared out of my socks - it's invigorating! At the time, I'm a little 'erk' but when I get to the top, I'm pointing and laughing...'did you see me almost loose it?' or 'I almost lost my lunch!' I haven't gotten enough of that exhilaration yet.
'Doing it right climbs' ARE generally easier for me, but I love them because I can give a little style (jazz hands!), with amusing(and perhaps slightly dirty) comments as I go up. Have a little fun without completely concentrating on survival. Plus these opportunities give me chance to try new ideas, body positions, etc in a mentally safer situation. While making amusing commentary of course. I DO usually laugh a touch more and wimper a lot less on these climbs.
So really, I just like it all! I think it depends on my mood, like so much.
So we need clarification from Karmi as to what she meant in the OP!
Really? Perhaps because English is not my first language, but it seems very clear to me that "barely making it" means exactly that: to be able to make it, but not by a large margin. What you interpreted in your previous post - hanging, tension, falling, etc - is NOT making it (barely or otherwise).
Did the person who hung, pulled, dogged their way up, not make it to the top? She didn't clarify what she meant by "make it". You are putting arbitrary words in her mouth. Not so long ago, there was great pride in making it to the top, no matter what tactics were used.
I don't mean grabbing draws or having to hike the rope or even taking...I mean barely making it as in, it felt a little desperate and just out of your comfort zone. You may not have fallen, but it was more due to luck that you didn't fall. So you could claim onsight if you wanted. As opposed to climbing a slightly easier climb that you send with confidence and style...it feels more natural to you. I know I didn't bring all the different types of rock into play...overhung, crack, slab, arete, etc into play with the poll, but we can if you want to, also.
I assumed you meant redpoint...
'a little out of comfort zone and a little desperate' for an ONSIGHT counts in my book. And sure, I would be proud of it. I am not sure why you consider it to be "bad style." maybe you need to clarify your definition of good style now...
But I would be even MORE proud of onsighting something that I was a lot more than a little desperate on. In fact, I'd say almost every time my onsight or flash level bumped up a grade, it was something that was out of my comfort zone, it was something i wasn't sure I could onsight/flash, and it took extra something to hang on and work though that voice in the back of your head that was saying:"I've never onsighted this grade, I don't think I can do it, I am not sure what the next section is bringing, it looks hard, and I am pumped, and it would be a big fall... I wasted a lot of energy when I screwed up the sequence down low, I might be screwing the sequence right now, too, I am not sure if that next hold is good, it seems too far, I won't be able to reverse this move... it would be safer to just ask for a "take" right now. No big deal... no one would think bad of me if I do... I could send it on the next try... I'll be just as happy if I get it on the next try..."
To work through that and still send-- I think that is a special high that you will never know if you tell yourself you'd rather climb easy stuff within your comfort zone, and console yourself with doing it in good "style".
And since you brought up 5.13a vs 5.13c in your initial example, I'd like to add that IMO noone gets to climbing those grades without ever pushing themselves and getting out of their comfort zone. Sure, some get it easier than others, but still, at some point in grade progression you face that feeling of being out of your comfort zone, and you learn to work though it in order to improve further. Or you don't.
So we need clarification from Karmi as to what she meant in the OP!
Really? Perhaps because English is not my first language, but it seems very clear to me that "barely making it" means exactly that: to be able to make it, but not by a large margin. What you interpreted in your previous post - hanging, tension, falling, etc - is NOT making it (barely or otherwise).
Did the person who hung, pulled, dogged their way up, not make it to the top? She didn't clarify what she meant by "make it". You are putting arbitrary words in her mouth. Not so long ago, there was great pride in making it to the top, no matter what tactics were used.
Really?
If someone claims that she has made a 5.13c, do you REALLY need clarification to know if she has gotten to the top PULLING the rope or the pro?. And I'm well aware about the time when an ascent resting on the pro was considered a valid ascent, but that was long ago. And even then, pulling was considered A0 (or french-free, whatever you prefer). I thought that nowadays any climber would understand, in the provided context of 5.13a vs 5.13c, what the OP meant. But apparently some climbers need further clarification. I stand corrected.
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