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davidnn5
Oct 2, 2010, 8:25 AM
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mr.tastycakes wrote: OK people, let's all take a deep breath. This thread actually has some good stuff in it despite it's lowly beginnings. Can we take the pissing contest with Jay elsewhere? Where would we take it exactly? Given he and cuGt infest every thread here? I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care. I don't begrudge Jay for not climbing if he's injured; I do begrudge anyone saying they know more than someone else because they climb higher grades. It's almost invariably untrue. The most knowledgeable guy I know is 65, climbs 5.6 and enjoys every damn moment, because he's had every finger cut off after the first knuckle and no toes and he's not DEAD despite having risked his life in real alpine terrain (not that I would). Arguably, climbing higher grades makes you more rock focused and less of a generalist - see http://www.prana.com/...es-wanderlust-video/ for an example. You get good at one thing at the expense of another. And frankly, even if my 65 year old friend didn't know everything there is to know about climbing, he'd be more fun to hang around with than Jay, because he doesn't give a crap about numbers. I climb 5.0 and love it, and that's all I will ever be able to climb - seriously. Spray on. I expect to hear from every V16 climber on the site. Swoopee - can we maek babies?
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curt
Oct 2, 2010, 4:54 PM
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davidnn5 wrote: ...I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care... I don't care...seriously. Curt
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jomagam
Oct 3, 2010, 2:45 PM
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In reply to: The thing is that there is an opportunity cost to working on those sorts of gymnastic exercises. If you don't have a good rock climbing gym available and can't build a decent home wall, then gymnastic exercises are likely to be useful, since, like climbing, they are body weight exercises. But, a well-structured climbing-gym based training program will likely be more effective because it is more sport specific. I could imagine a climbing specific training program that has days when you do not do any climbing. In my experience the bottleneck is your fingers and tendons: you want to rest them to avoid injury. Being a relatively new climber in my mid 30s that means climbing every other day unless I'm on a road trip. However that doesn't mean that you couldn't do core or balance or leg exercises on off days while your fingers are recuperating. But I wouldn't be surprised either if the best you could do was rest and relax on off days.
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jomagam
Oct 3, 2010, 2:47 PM
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In reply to: shoulder problems that could almost certainly have been avoided with just a bit of sensible barbell work What do you do to avoid shoulder problems ? Mine hurts from time to time.
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onceahardman
Oct 3, 2010, 9:40 PM
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jomagam wrote: In reply to: shoulder problems that could almost certainly have been avoided with just a bit of sensible barbell work What do you do to avoid shoulder problems ? Mine hurts from time to time. These are pretty good. They also give a sense of exercise progression. The only caveat is to use caution especially with the "abduction" exercise. If it causes pain, back off that one. http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/...or/rotatstrength.php
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karmiclimber
Oct 4, 2010, 5:37 PM
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jt512 wrote: bbowers wrote: First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs." Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.8–5.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear. Jay Jay. When are you going to learn that people around here don't ask questions like that with a desire for real truth. I can't read what you posted originally, because you deleted it, but there's a good chance I totally agree with you. I started weight lifting and doing pullups about a couple of months ago...I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. (I was too enthusiastic). Anyway, from my own personal experience (and I'm a female...keep that in mind) cardio (esp HIIT training) and climbing are the only types of training that have helped improve my climbing. I say that because cardio helps keep me skinnier, which makes climbing easier...which most guys might not even need for climbing. Depends.
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davidnn5
Oct 4, 2010, 7:29 PM
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curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: ...I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care... I don't care...seriously. Curt Shouldn't you be lurking Adatesman's new site, waiting for your opportunity to get that last, last, last word on an issue no one but you ever cared about?
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jbro_135
Oct 4, 2010, 7:35 PM
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davidnn5 wrote: curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: ...I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care... I don't care...seriously. Curt Shouldn't you be lurking Adatesman's new site, waiting for your opportunity to get that last, last, last word on an issue no one but you ever cared about? it's 5.8+ isn't it?
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curt
Oct 4, 2010, 8:41 PM
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davidnn5 wrote: curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: ...I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care... I don't care...seriously. Curt Shouldn't you be lurking Adatesman's new site, waiting for your opportunity to get that last, last, last word on an issue no one but you ever cared about? Shouldn't you be busy sending out more retarded PMs? Like this one you just sent me?
davidnn5 wrote: You're much more of a cunt than a Curt! Cheers dickrag. Keep up your hard work - you will always be respected for your efforts. Fucktard. Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Oct 4, 2010, 8:42 PM)
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Oct 4, 2010, 9:57 PM
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onceahardman wrote: jomagam wrote: In reply to: shoulder problems that could almost certainly have been avoided with just a bit of sensible barbell work What do you do to avoid shoulder problems ? Mine hurts from time to time. These are pretty good. They also give a sense of exercise progression. The only caveat is to use caution especially with the "abduction" exercise. If it causes pain, back off that one. http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/...or/rotatstrength.php Nice site, except for this photo: That black bra with that cut out? I haven't seen such bad cut outs since Linda Kozlowski's dress in th '80's. (I skipped over the whole Xenia cut out era, velour lycra is classy.)
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onceahardman
Oct 4, 2010, 11:37 PM
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I never even noticed the cut out. But, I always thought Linda Kozlowski was smoking hot, too.
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ceebo
Oct 4, 2010, 11:58 PM
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karmiclimber wrote: jt512 wrote: bbowers wrote: First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs." Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.8–5.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear. Jay Jay. When are you going to learn that people around here don't ask questions like that with a desire for real truth. I can't read what you posted originally, because you deleted it, but there's a good chance I totally agree with you. I started weight lifting and doing pullups about a couple of months ago...I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. (I was too enthusiastic). Anyway, from my own personal experience (and I'm a female...keep that in mind) cardio (esp HIIT training) and climbing are the only types of training that have helped improve my climbing. I say that because cardio helps keep me skinnier, which makes climbing easier...which most guys might not even need for climbing. Depends. Not sure how you can draw the conclusion weight training fails, simply because you personally fucked it up and got injured. Anybody could so easily go over enthusiasticly climb, regardless of sex... and wind up with the same injury or worse.
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davidnn5
Oct 5, 2010, 12:03 AM
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curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: ...I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care... I don't care...seriously. Curt Shouldn't you be lurking Adatesman's new site, waiting for your opportunity to get that last, last, last word on an issue no one but you ever cared about? Shouldn't you be busy sending out more retarded PMs? Like this one you just sent me? davidnn5 wrote: You're much more of a cunt than a Curt! Cheers dickrag. Keep up your hard work - you will always be respected for your efforts. Fucktard. Curt I sent it personally because I didn't feel like others need to be subjected to the animosity. However, if you want to fly to Aus and brawl, we can film it and make a true spectacle?
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ceebo
Oct 5, 2010, 12:11 AM
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davidnn5 wrote: curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: ...I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care... I don't care...seriously. Curt Shouldn't you be lurking Adatesman's new site, waiting for your opportunity to get that last, last, last word on an issue no one but you ever cared about? Shouldn't you be busy sending out more retarded PMs? Like this one you just sent me? davidnn5 wrote: You're much more of a cunt than a Curt! Cheers dickrag. Keep up your hard work - you will always be respected for your efforts. Fucktard. Curt I sent it personally because I didn't feel like others need to be subjected to the animosity. However, if you want to fly to Aus and brawl, we can film it and make a true spectacle? Why would you not go with the buthurt curt line?
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curt
Oct 5, 2010, 12:12 AM
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davidnn5 wrote: curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: curt wrote: davidnn5 wrote: ...I will happily say I'm back to climbing today after almost 2 months off for potential tendon injuries (turned out to be nerve impingements). I'm happy to climb any grade, and that may be from 5.0 to 5.15; you go ahead and guess, if you care... I don't care...seriously. Curt Shouldn't you be lurking Adatesman's new site, waiting for your opportunity to get that last, last, last word on an issue no one but you ever cared about? Shouldn't you be busy sending out more retarded PMs? Like this one you just sent me? davidnn5 wrote: You're much more of a cunt than a Curt! Cheers dickrag. Keep up your hard work - you will always be respected for your efforts. Fucktard. Curt I sent it personally because I didn't feel like others need to be subjected to the animosity my douchebaggery. Fixed. Curt
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karmiclimber
Oct 5, 2010, 1:40 AM
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ceebo wrote: karmiclimber wrote: jt512 wrote: bbowers wrote: First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs." Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.8–5.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear. Jay Jay. When are you going to learn that people around here don't ask questions like that with a desire for real truth. I can't read what you posted originally, because you deleted it, but there's a good chance I totally agree with you. I started weight lifting and doing pullups about a couple of months ago...I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. (I was too enthusiastic). Anyway, from my own personal experience (and I'm a female...keep that in mind) cardio (esp HIIT training) and climbing are the only types of training that have helped improve my climbing. I say that because cardio helps keep me skinnier, which makes climbing easier...which most guys might not even need for climbing. Depends. Not sure how you can draw the conclusion weight training fails, simply because you personally fucked it up and got injured. Anybody could so easily go over enthusiasticly climb, regardless of sex... and wind up with the same injury or worse. I didn't say that. You can injure yourself either way. Or neither way. I have golfers elbow and tennis elbow and I neither play golf nor tennis. Weight lifting doesn't help rockclimbing though. It only creates more muscle and muscle is heavy to pull. But the muscles created by rockclimbing are, obviously, the most efficent ones to use WHEN rockclimbing. Ps. I posted that I was a female, because when compared to males, our body fat percentage is higher on average. Thereby explaining why cardio helps me with climbing...it, in combination with the muscle climbing creates, helps keep body fat percentage lower.
(This post was edited by karmiclimber on Oct 5, 2010, 1:49 AM)
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onceahardman
Oct 5, 2010, 2:29 AM
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Karmi, you seem like a nice person, and I really hesitate to write anything. But, when you wrote above,
In reply to: I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. That implies you have two tendons in your forearm, which indicates a below average understanding of anatomy. It's so far off the mark as to be offensive to me. Secondly, you say,
In reply to: Weight lifting doesn't help rockclimbing though. It only creates more muscle and muscle is heavy to pull. Karmi, muscle is what actually does the pulling. No muscle, no pulling. Muscles don't push, they only pull. The kind of "insight" you have in this conversation is akin to a sprinter who refuses to train hamstrings, because he only wants to train the muscles that propel him forward, as fast as possible, or the martial artist who only wants to train muscles involved in punching. You need muscle that provides both major movement patterns of a joint, to be really strong. I'm sorry to be harsh, but if you got hurt in training, you probably either tried to wing it by yourself, or you trained with someone who doesn't know what he/she is doing.
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noahfor
Oct 5, 2010, 5:26 AM
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Weightlifting doesn't create muscle if you don't want it to. It is possible to get very strong without gaining any significant amount of muscle.
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quiteatingmysteak
Oct 5, 2010, 6:04 AM
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I started a 10 week cycle outlined in Mark Twights book, and was in the middle of it building power when I lost interest and just went to the climbing gym/In N Out. of course I could never climb all that great anyway, so take this with a grain of salt, but by not finishing the cycle I had lost some endurance for power. I've kept up with lat press and seated press along with my regular high-rep, high-set routine (more for muscular endurance than anything) more for injury prevention. I've seen drastic results, 5.7+ to 5.8-.
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ceebo
Oct 5, 2010, 11:46 AM
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karmiclimber wrote: ceebo wrote: karmiclimber wrote: jt512 wrote: bbowers wrote: First off I'm a climber, used to lift a long time ago. I'm still going to call bs You asked. I did you the courtesy of answering. And now you're "call[ing] bs." Fine. Pretend I never posted. I'll delete my responses, and you have fun climbing 5.10b. Experience shows that there are plenty of other 5.8–5.10 weight lifters who will be more than happy to tell you what you want to hear. Jay Jay. When are you going to learn that people around here don't ask questions like that with a desire for real truth. I can't read what you posted originally, because you deleted it, but there's a good chance I totally agree with you. I started weight lifting and doing pullups about a couple of months ago...I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. (I was too enthusiastic). Anyway, from my own personal experience (and I'm a female...keep that in mind) cardio (esp HIIT training) and climbing are the only types of training that have helped improve my climbing. I say that because cardio helps keep me skinnier, which makes climbing easier...which most guys might not even need for climbing. Depends. Not sure how you can draw the conclusion weight training fails, simply because you personally fucked it up and got injured. Anybody could so easily go over enthusiasticly climb, regardless of sex... and wind up with the same injury or worse. I didn't say that. You can injure yourself either way. Or neither way. I have golfers elbow and tennis elbow and I neither play golf nor tennis. Weight lifting doesn't help rockclimbing though. It only creates more muscle and muscle is heavy to pull. But the muscles created by rockclimbing are, obviously, the most efficent ones to use WHEN rockclimbing. Ps. I posted that I was a female, because when compared to males, our body fat percentage is higher on average. Thereby explaining why cardio helps me with climbing...it, in combination with the muscle climbing creates, helps keep body fat percentage lower. Na, i think most of us are at such a low climbing level we simply have too little to gain from weight training to justify it. But if theirs no wall available then its a different story. Anybody at are level trying to do a route at their ''reasonable'' max could easily complete that route in around 2 weeks with 4-6 good climbing sessions. Theirs just no need to weight train when your progressing so steady.
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karmiclimber
Oct 5, 2010, 2:24 PM
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onceahardman wrote: Karmi, you seem like a nice person, and I really hesitate to write anything. But, when you wrote above, In reply to: I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. That implies you have two tendons in your forearm, which indicates a below average understanding of anatomy. It's so far off the mark as to be offensive to me. Secondly, you say, In reply to: Weight lifting doesn't help rockclimbing though. It only creates more muscle and muscle is heavy to pull. Karmi, muscle is what actually does the pulling. No muscle, no pulling. Muscles don't push, they only pull. The kind of "insight" you have in this conversation is akin to a sprinter who refuses to train hamstrings, because he only wants to train the muscles that propel him forward, as fast as possible, or the martial artist who only wants to train muscles involved in punching. You need muscle that provides both major movement patterns of a joint, to be really strong. I'm sorry to be harsh, but if you got hurt in training, you probably either tried to wing it by yourself, or you trained with someone who doesn't know what he/she is doing. I didn't mean to offend you. That is what my Dr. told me. She said there was a tendon that runs along the top and the bottom (she may have been focusing on the ones that I injured, because I told her I had severe pain when I was turning the steering wheel). I got hurt in training because I was over enthusiastic with how much weight I was lifting...and probably had bad form as a result (I was doing the routine as outlined in the book "New Rules of Lifting for Women".) I don't claim to be any sort of expert. Edit to add...I re-read what you wrote. When I said "muscle is heavy to pull", I meant it weighs more...therefore it is heavier to pull up as you climb. If that makes sense.
(This post was edited by karmiclimber on Oct 5, 2010, 2:31 PM)
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aerili
Oct 5, 2010, 7:46 PM
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karmiclimber wrote: onceahardman wrote: Karmi, you seem like a nice person, and I really hesitate to write anything. But, when you wrote above, In reply to: I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. That implies you have two tendons in your forearm, which indicates a below average understanding of anatomy. It's so far off the mark as to be offensive to me. Secondly, you say, In reply to: Weight lifting doesn't help rockclimbing though. It only creates more muscle and muscle is heavy to pull. Karmi, muscle is what actually does the pulling. No muscle, no pulling. Muscles don't push, they only pull. The kind of "insight" you have in this conversation is akin to a sprinter who refuses to train hamstrings, because he only wants to train the muscles that propel him forward, as fast as possible, or the martial artist who only wants to train muscles involved in punching. You need muscle that provides both major movement patterns of a joint, to be really strong. I'm sorry to be harsh, but if you got hurt in training, you probably either tried to wing it by yourself, or you trained with someone who doesn't know what he/she is doing. I didn't mean to offend you. That is what my Dr. told me. She said there was a tendon that runs along the top and the bottom (she may have been focusing on the ones that I injured, because I told her I had severe pain when I was turning the steering wheel). I got hurt in training because I was over enthusiastic with how much weight I was lifting...and probably had bad form as a result (I was doing the routine as outlined in the book "New Rules of Lifting for Women".) I don't claim to be any sort of expert. Edit to add...I re-read what you wrote. When I said "muscle is heavy to pull", I meant it weighs more...therefore it is heavier to pull up as you climb. If that makes sense. Regardless of your clarification, it is still pretty much...wrong. Muscle may weigh more than fat per pound, but unlike fat, it is not inert mass you are just hefting around. Also, as someone else stated (and I have stated many times), lifting weights with the right kind of program does not guarantee shitloads of muscle mass will be built. ESPECIALLY for women.
(This post was edited by aerili on Oct 5, 2010, 7:48 PM)
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karmiclimber
Oct 5, 2010, 8:13 PM
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aerili wrote: karmiclimber wrote: onceahardman wrote: Karmi, you seem like a nice person, and I really hesitate to write anything. But, when you wrote above, In reply to: I ended up injuring my arm and both of the tendons in my right forearm. That implies you have two tendons in your forearm, which indicates a below average understanding of anatomy. It's so far off the mark as to be offensive to me. Secondly, you say, In reply to: Weight lifting doesn't help rockclimbing though. It only creates more muscle and muscle is heavy to pull. Karmi, muscle is what actually does the pulling. No muscle, no pulling. Muscles don't push, they only pull. The kind of "insight" you have in this conversation is akin to a sprinter who refuses to train hamstrings, because he only wants to train the muscles that propel him forward, as fast as possible, or the martial artist who only wants to train muscles involved in punching. You need muscle that provides both major movement patterns of a joint, to be really strong. I'm sorry to be harsh, but if you got hurt in training, you probably either tried to wing it by yourself, or you trained with someone who doesn't know what he/she is doing. I didn't mean to offend you. That is what my Dr. told me. She said there was a tendon that runs along the top and the bottom (she may have been focusing on the ones that I injured, because I told her I had severe pain when I was turning the steering wheel). I got hurt in training because I was over enthusiastic with how much weight I was lifting...and probably had bad form as a result (I was doing the routine as outlined in the book "New Rules of Lifting for Women".) I don't claim to be any sort of expert. Edit to add...I re-read what you wrote. When I said "muscle is heavy to pull", I meant it weighs more...therefore it is heavier to pull up as you climb. If that makes sense. Regardless of your clarification, it is still pretty much...wrong. Muscle may weigh more than fat per pound, but unlike fat, it is not inert mass you are just hefting around. Also, as someone else stated (and I have stated many times), lifting weights with the right kind of program does not guarantee shitloads of muscle mass will be built. ESPECIALLY for women. Wrong about what? That I don't think weightlifting will help climbing? I guess it depends on your perspective and you obviously know more about this than I do. I view it from the vantage point that climbing is my preferred source of strength training. Also, when I have taken complete newbs climbing, the 120 lb female can usually outclimb the 170lb. muscle bound dude. But, whatever, everyone is different.
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onceahardman
Oct 5, 2010, 9:30 PM
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In reply to: Wrong about what? That I don't think weightlifting will help climbing? I guess it depends on your perspective and you obviously know more about this than I do. I view it from the vantage point that climbing is my preferred source of strength training. Also, when I have taken complete newbs climbing, the 120 lb female can usually outclimb the 170lb. muscle bound dude. But, whatever, everyone is different. Let me provide an analogy. Muscle and tendon work togather in the same way a winch and a cable do. A stronger winch provides a larger force, capable of pulling harder. It cannot become so strong that it cannot pull itself. On a further note, when you say, "170 pound muscle boud dude"...what do ou mean? What does "muscle bound" mean? And, climbing is not usually "strength training", unless you are super conscientious about it. Out of all the newbs I've taken climbing, I'm not sure I've seen much difference in initial talent between 120# women, and 170# men, I have taken super fit 100# aerobics instructors who had no talent, and 225# linebacker types who knew where their feet were, and could dance up stuff.
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karmiclimber
Oct 5, 2010, 10:39 PM
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By "muscle bound" I meant buff guys who work out a lot and lift weights. How is it not strength training? Seriously curious. Personally, it makes my biceps, forarms, calves, hands and back stronger...
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