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billcoe_


Aug 17, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Re: [Rudmin] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
Reviews are in at Mountain Project: http://www.mountainproject.com/...ams_in_slc/106849780

From those first looks, just like the testers - I'll pass. ("I normally climb on Metolius and BD and will continue to do so for now.")

Price wrote:
Totem Cams Adam and I took these up in the quartzite of Big Cottonwood Canyon near Salt Lake City, Utah to test them out. First thing that hit me as I picked up the cams was, "These cams are really cool looking, but there's a lot too them." That thought came true as I racked them up. They definitely take up some room on the gear loops. At the same time, they look really cool, and in my book, that scores some points. As I looked at how the cams are engineered, I was even more impressed by the engineering. If I'm understanding it correctly, and I believe that I am, the trigger wires actually hold the fall. I was a little concerned at first that these might wear out rather quickly. The other concern that I had was that the trigger wires seems rather exposed, especially when the device is cammed past 75%. Despite these minor concerns, Adam and I took the attitude of, "Well, they're cams. No one makes cams that just don't work at all." and we headed up to the crag. We stuck them in cracks and compared them to our other gear. They seemed simple enough. The sizes wouldn't be too hard to get used to, and the 2 lobe placement claim seemed to make sense. I took the first run at them. We were on a steep 5.10 with a crack that varies from perfect fingerlocks to knobby fists. Perfect for fall testing cams. I place the green totem about 30 feet up, backed it up and climbed until it was 3 feet below my shoes. Sure enough, cams hold, and the cam held the short whipper just fine. I climbed back to where I was and then up past into some bigger placements. I found a nice place for the red cam, backed it up, climbed above and took a good 15 foot whip on it with a nice hard catch. Once again, the cam performed brilliantly. With how easy it was to place these cams, I was beginning to think that they were a pretty good product. I finished the pitch and lowered off to give Adam a go. He wasn't nearly so kind as I was. His first piece he placed perfectly and took a small whip on, but we were here to test. Most anything works in an ideal situation, but when you take it a little more extreme, that's when you see if there is any substance. Adam placed his next piece in an ideal spot, but with only 2 lobes engaged. He tugged on it and it seemed to hold. Then he took a short fall with the piece at waist level and it ripped right out. Unscathed, Adam climbed back up and place another marginal piece. I didn't see this placement, but I know he put it in with all 4 lobes engaged. The 12 foot whip he took on that piece pulled it as well. Either Adam didn't know how to place gear, or he was purposely making bad placements. Adam finished his pitch and I decided it was my turn to give the cams a good test. I really wanted to be fair, but also test the limits of the cams. I found a perfect spot: a spot in the main crack flaring straight down at approximately 35-40% (Think about the hands on your clock at 5:35 or so). I placed the green cam and backed it up. Sure enough, that cam (that I totally expected to blow) held a 15 footer with a hard catch. My kidneys were starting to feel the hard catches now, but i wanted to test a few more. I tried the purple in a slightly more flaring placement. Not only did I pull the Totem Cam, but I pulled what I thought was a bomber backup. Quite the surprise. After all the whipping was through, We carefully inspected the cams for damage. The wires held up fine and didn't seem to ever contact the rock. We didn't load them over any horizontals or anything, but I felt like we tested them fairly hard. I'd like to see how they end up loaded over an edge, but I didn't want to ruin them. The lobes definitely showed some wear, especially on the back sides of the lobes. Very interesting spots for deformation. The aluminum seemed pretty soft, and someone that falls on their gear a lot might end up with some mashed up lobes on their cams. I'm sure the specs speak better to the softness of the metal than I can. I'm impressed, but not ready to go out and drop $80/cam on these. I normally climb on Metolius and BD and will continue to do so for now. I didn't have any major complaints though, so try them out if you get a chance. Climb safe out there. Jason Price On a scale of 1-5: Look and feel: 4 Ease of placement: 5 Holding power: 5 Durability: 3 Size: 2 Price: 1.5

and in response to "What do you rate BD cams compaired to these guys?"

Price wrote:
I would rate bd as "different"

My go-to pieces are Metolius, followed closely by BD, but even those two are just different. Different cams work in different spots.

If I had to rate BD on the same scale that I used below my review:

Look and feel: 5
Ease of placement: 4.75
Holding power: 5
Durability: 4
Size: 4
Price(value): 4

Metolius:

L&F: 4
Ease of placement: 4.75
Holding power: 5+
Durability: 5
Size: 4.5
Price(value): 4.5


boadman


Aug 26, 2010, 3:58 PM
Post #127 of 140 (6544 views)
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Re: [billcoe_] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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Won't anybody on RC.com do a review? Mountain Project is dominating.


vegastradguy


Aug 26, 2010, 4:33 PM
Post #128 of 140 (6529 views)
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Re: [boadman] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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Sorry, brother, its too fucking hot to climb on gear right now in Vegas. I've used them once so far, but not enough to form an opinion on them.

My best guess is temps will back off toward the end of the month, so mid/late sept at the earliest for anything from me.

Bandycoot has a set and he should post up on his blog when he gets his review done.


patto


Aug 27, 2010, 2:17 PM
Post #129 of 140 (6444 views)
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Re: [vegastradguy] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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For those who want to get a little more geeky about cam and camming angles:

The maximum downward flaring angle for a cam is 2 x cam angle. For example, a cam with 14 degrees cam angle can theoretically hold in a downward flare up to 28 degrees. In a larger downward flaring angle, the cam lobes would walk over the rock faces as the cam lobes are forced to open. To understand this: imagine a cam with circle shaped cam lobes (no spiral lobes, just round like a wheel). This would be a 0 degrees cam angle (0 degrees logarithmic spiral is just a circle). If you perfectly fit this 0 degrees cam into a crack with parallel faces, the cam lobes would just rotate like the car wheels. In this case, it happens with 0 degrees cam in a 0 degrees downward flaring crack. Exactly the same would happen with 14 degrees cam into a 28 degrees downward flaring crack.

About holding power: the holding power (otherwise said, the minimum friction coefficient required to avoid slip) is not affected by a downward flare. In a downward flare, only the axle shear forces (and cam lobes over rock) are affected. Near the maximum downward flaring angle, the axle shear forces would be increased to the infinite. And when the maximum downward flare angle is reached the cam lobes rotate and do not work.

The Totem Cams performs better in downward flares because the cam angle is 20,35 degrees. The holding power of a Totem Cam, is like a SLCD with approximately 13 degrees cam angle.
I will show all this with drawings and mathematic demonstrations next week. This week I'm out of office.

By mapeze, mountainproject forums

A very good, but brief explanation. I was impressed and then i looked and realised the author was the totem cam designer, so of course he know all this! Smile


(This post was edited by patto on Aug 27, 2010, 2:18 PM)


mapeze


Sep 2, 2010, 4:50 PM
Post #130 of 140 (6314 views)
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Re: [patto] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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The comment about holding power of cams in a flare is not correct at all. It's true for all regular cams but not for Totem Cams.
For Totem Cams the equivalent cam angle (we would use simply "cam angle" for regular cams) is about 13 degrees in a parallel crack, and it grows until 20.35 degrees when the flare is 40.7 degrees.
I have uploaded a paper to our web site showing some mathematics of regular cams and Totem Cams in parallel and flared cracks.
http://www.totemcams.com/...es/IndarEbazpena.pdf


(This post was edited by mapeze on Sep 2, 2010, 4:52 PM)


wolfdog


Aug 1, 2011, 9:32 PM
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Re: [mapeze] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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You don't need to know all the mathematics to know that these cams rock in both parallel and flared placements. I used them side by side with my rack of BD's and Aliens, and they just seem to grab better and place way more easily. Very impressive, and what I plan on adding to my rack.


naitch


Aug 1, 2011, 11:10 PM
Post #132 of 140 (5947 views)
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Re: [wolfdog] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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They're now $69 instead of $80 mentioned up-thread


billcoe_


Aug 4, 2011, 8:09 PM
Post #133 of 140 (5834 views)
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totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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boadman wrote:
I just want to know the basics:

1. Are they easy to place? Are they too flexible/flexible enough?
2. Are they easy to clean?
3. Do they fit in the same spot that you know your green & yellow aliens dominate?
4. Are you actually willing to fall on them with only two lobes in?
5. Do they work well in flared cracks where we needed off-sets previously?
6. Are they really heavy?

Somewhere in there since my last post my hands started shakin' and I ran out and got 6 of them. Love them. It took some mileage to feel the love, the more I climbed on them the more I felt it. Everyone I have climbed with seems to go through this process as well. They start out looking at them with disdain, but eventually start insisting that they get put on the rack when we go out.


Range: better than a Camalot.
Holding power: about on a par as a hybrid Alien. Bette than a Camalot.
Ease of placement: great
Head Width: about as good as anything.
Ease of cleaning: better than most.


These work great in pods and horizontal seams (think Red Rocks...Jtree) and in Granite pin scars.


Partner j_ung


Aug 5, 2011, 11:44 AM
Post #134 of 140 (5776 views)
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Re: [billcoe_] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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billcoe_ wrote:
boadman wrote:
I just want to know the basics:

1. Are they easy to place? Are they too flexible/flexible enough?
2. Are they easy to clean?
3. Do they fit in the same spot that you know your green & yellow aliens dominate?
4. Are you actually willing to fall on them with only two lobes in?
5. Do they work well in flared cracks where we needed off-sets previously?
6. Are they really heavy?

Somewhere in there since my last post my hands started shakin' and I ran out and got 6 of them. Love them. It took some mileage to feel the love, the more I climbed on them the more I felt it. Everyone I have climbed with seems to go through this process as well. They start out looking at them with disdain, but eventually start insisting that they get put on the rack when we go out.


Range: better than a Camalot.
Holding power: about on a par as a hybrid Alien. Bette than a Camalot.
Ease of placement: great
Head Width: about as good as anything.
Ease of cleaning: better than most.


These work great in pods and horizontal seams (think Red Rocks...Jtree) and in Granite pin scars.

I think it's already been said, but IMO, their biggest asset is their otherworldly flexibility. I do a lot of climbing on shallow-ish horizontals and Totems really excel in that environment.


Partner rgold


Aug 5, 2011, 8:28 PM
Post #135 of 140 (5728 views)
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Re: [j_ung] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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I have the purple and really like it. For places like the Gunks, head width really makes a difference and the purple has a head width comparable to a red alien. It fits in all kinds of places its Camalot brother won't go. The flexibility is also fantastic; I've seen no walking at all.

At least in theory, Totem Cams have higher holding power than regular cams, meaning that they will hold in placements whose coefficient of friction is not adequate for an ordinary cam. The buzz from Europe already is that they are the thing for iimestone, presumably because of this.

The reason for the increased holding power is that the geometry is essentially different. The model for a regular cam is two sticks (angled down), connected with a pivot, and a stem at the pivot transmitting the load. If, instead of having the pivot at the very end of the sticks, one constructs instead a scissor configuration, and then loads the endpoints of the handles of the scissors, then a moment arm is introduced that is not present in the regular cam, with the net result (basic algebra and trig required here) of reducing the critical coefficient of friction below which the cam will slip. (This is an oversimpification of the actual Totem cam geometry, which has a logarithmic spiral on the cable loading end as well as on the rock contact end, with the result that the "stick" is not actually straight.)

The geometry also accounts for the ability to hold in higher flares. (In this regard, note that Rudmin's "argument" is fallacious; protestations to the contrary, it assumes the ordinary cam geometry when it bases its conclusion on "metal slipping at 14 degrees.")

Note, however, that the geometry does not avoid the fact that there is no upper bound on the possible pivot shear load as the flare angle approaches the log spiral cam angle. Placing cams in flares and then applying high loads may very well destroy the cam, and this is not a design flaw but rather a fact of iife.

Everyone who uses these cams, after an initial scepticism, seems to like them. It is true that they are bulkier on your rack. The cams themselves are also a little narrower than Camalots, which might be an issue in soft rock. But the biggest question mark is durability, especially for Gunks climbers who are continually placing these things in horizontals, with the consequent loading of all those wires and springs. Time will tell, I guess; for me it is too soon to offer any conclusions, and I wouldn't hold your breath, since I am very easy on my gear.

The price with postage now seems to be $70, which makes them reasonably competitive if still on the pricey side.


Partner climboard


Aug 9, 2011, 7:22 PM
Post #136 of 140 (5600 views)
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Re: [rgold] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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Has anyone had a chance to check out their version of Aliens?

Totem Basic Cams


boadman


Aug 9, 2011, 7:33 PM
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Re: [climboard] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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Sick!


cellige


Aug 10, 2011, 4:58 AM
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Re: [rgold] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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Question for anyone who has a totem cam on a behavior that seems to be a bit tricky to just imagine.

If you place the totem cam, and then put some hand tension on the carabiner clipped to it, and then try to change that direction of pull a little bit, does the direct loading of the two lobes that are walking provide extra force beyond what the springs are providing to resist the walk?

Without measuring or just visually seeing them not move, the only way I can imagine to test is to stick another 4 lobed unit in the same spot, apply the same tension and try to walk and observe the exent..

Thanks !


JAB


Aug 10, 2011, 5:45 AM
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Re: [climboard] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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climboard wrote:
Has anyone had a chance to check out their version of Aliens?

Totem Basic Cams

Wow! They look exactly like aliens, but hopefully without the production problems!


patto


Nov 5, 2011, 3:38 AM
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Re: [JAB] totem cams now available? [In reply to]
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Great review of Totem Cams in aiding.
http://davidallfrey.blogspot.com/2011/09/totem-cams-aid-review.html

Good pics of two lobe placements too!





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