What the hell is an "African American"? What if he wasnt born in Africa or speak any of its dialects? Would that still count?

What if he has really light skin because he is a descendant of European colonists but his family has lived in Africa for hundreds of years?

And what difference does it make where his family is from or what color his skin is?

Or are you trying to point out that there is a difference and thats its somehow harder for him to climb because of any of the above reasons?




You should be asking yourself.. why would someone ask a dumb fucking question like this in the first place.

hobgoblin11,

I'm so sorrY I offended you. There was none intended.

maldaly

What the hell is ...this in the first place.

Why does it matter? Is it harder for a black guy to climb a mountain than a white guy?

And what difference does it make where his family is from or what color his skin is?

Or are you trying to point out that there is a difference and thats its somehow harder for him to climb because of any of the above reasons?

As to why it matters it's important for us to realize in that same year millions of African-Americans couldn't even vote in this country and less than a decade earlier several National Parks were racially segregated. At a time when people of color in the U.S. seldom ventured out into wilderness areas for fear racially motivated violence few could have dreamed of ever scaling to the highest summit in North America. Crenchaw's climb marked a seminal point history when for the first time a black person in this country had the leisure time, financial resources, the social connections, skills and the inclination to exercise the right many of us take for granted today, the right to do what ever the hell we want to.

You should be asking yourself.. why would someone askobject to a dumb fucking question like this in the first place.

I came into the climbing community expecting this to be the LAST place Id see this race-card bullshit being played out. Thats why I object to the question.

It sure is a good thing all you "well-intentioned" folks are watching out for these "african-americans".. whatever that is and any other oppressed hyphenated-americans.

Im sure ALL your roads are paved with gold.

All these idiotic hyphenated-american terms and questions like the OPs do is guarantee fodder for racist jackasses who look for differences because of skin color.

Nice job to all you for not only dragging the problem on further but justifying why it IS a stupid question.

and to the OP.. there will ALWAYS be racists of every color.. in every country. Rock climbing is probably one of the most individualistic sports out there and would more than likely be one of the least racist clique's a climber of any color would find. I will say this.. I think you'd be better off with real, in your face racists.. at least you know where you stand.. vs these closet racists who come running to defend you and think you need their "help". (and you notice how quickly they came).

A lot of white men have trouble believing that racism, sexism, and overall oppression are problems. That's because, well, they are white men and have never been confronted with it.

Josh

Justice Roberts got it wrong.

Ignoring an extremely negative history only perpetuates the effects of that history. Acknowledging the history (and thereby endeavoring to remedy its effects) requires acknowledging that racial injustice was a huge factor present during the formation of and maintenance of our nation, institutionalized as a matter of law until very recently (for over 300 years, with institutional changes occurring only within the last 50 years).

It is both naive and callous for a society to say to its oppressed minorities, after over 300 years of systematic and institutional oppression, rape, murder, and deprivation, including over 200 years of forced bondage, that "we no longer care about race, so let's no-one talk about it now."

As to Black climbers, I myself rarely see another at the gym or crag. It is without dispute that climbing is historically a White man's game, so to speak, and it is also true that people in general are more likely to try something new when others with whom they can identify in some way are participating in that thing.

In my opinion, the reason that Black and other non-White climbers may be under-represented is not as much because of a cultural difference, but because climbing is a historically White predominated sport, and because potential climbers see only White people climbing, and aren't as attracted to it as they otherwise might be; given the social history of our nation, I'm sure that you can understand this phenomenon.

Also, consider this; there are plenty of non-White climbers out there; how often do you see them depicted in the climbing media?

So brave.

Sorry.. i didnt grow up in the US. I simply fail to comprehend the fascination with racism or with all these white people trying to help out blacks every time they perceive an injustice. They treat blacks like fucking children.. come running to their aid. "uh oh.. white guy and black guy arguing.. must be some racism going on.. better call the 'help the black folk police' "

Im pretty sure blacks are completely capable of defending their own positions.

Ive been a lot of places on this planet most of these assclowns have no idea what real racism is.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread again, but it keeps getting bumped...


I of course concede this point; just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That said, I believe most people would notice if racism/sexism were popular, rampant, or institutionalized in today's society whether they were the target of it or not. Racism is still around yeah, but it's on its way out.



I'm not for a second saying we should ignore that history, or trying diminish its significance; racism is an awful, horrible thing that unfortunately has had a huge role in this country's history. My view: The worst possible solution to the all problems caused by racism, is more racism. Discrimination based on race, gender, or any other trait that people have no control over, for any reason, is fundamentally evil in every sense of the word, and the practice cannot be eradicated from this planet quickly enough. By drawing distinctions between different groups of people, you drive those people apart and gain nothing in return. If you believe that a group of people require special treatment, by definition you don't consider them to be equals.

I have a huge problem with looking at people in groups rather than as individuals, and shockabu's post about sickle cell anemia is a perfect example of why. You either have sickle cell or you don't; if you climb a mountain with the condition you deserve recognition for that fact, if you don't then you don't. There are blacks who are privileged and whites who aren't; if someone comes from a poor family and goes on to do great things, they deserve recognition for that, regardless of ethnicity. If you look at people in groups it's easy to turn tendencies into absolutes, which unfairly skews your perception of every individual in that group.

Wow. You're kind of a jerk.

Josh

Secondly, discrimination still exists, but is often more subtle. There usually isn't a burning cross on someone's lawn anymore.

Josh

I don't think you quite understand.

I understand perfectly, I simply disagree. Should we keep track of the first summits by gingers as well?

I understand perfectly, I simply disagree. Should we keep track of the first summits by gingers as well?

My view celebrates differences more than yours-- I see an individual, you see a "straight middle class african-american male".

I understand perfectly, I simply disagree. Should we keep track of the first summits by gingers as well?

My view celebrates differences more than yours-- I see an individual, you see a "straight middle class african-american male".

... Racism is still around yeah, but it's on its way out.