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chosschick
Dec 12, 2003, 11:09 PM
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great thread J, thanx for the info!! :D :D
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sspssp
Dec 12, 2003, 11:38 PM
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In reply to: When you eat stuff that tastes good then you will eat more than you need to because you also get satisfaction from the taste and not just getting the nutrition you need. Take the Subway diets for instance. They're not losing weight because the sandwich is good for them. The reason why they lose weight is because they eat those things every day and every meal and so they get so sick of it that they are just eating what they need to and not eating extra for the taste.
I agree with this. I have, at times, had a very monotonous (sp?) diet and lost weight on it (and I wasn't even trying to lose weight).
The comment I make to people: if you could eat all the plain fruit (no canned fruit in syrup), veggies (no sugary/oily salad dressings), plain rice, and beans, and fish (no sauces, but a little bit of olive oil for fat intake) that you wanted to, but nothing else, you wouldn't starve, but I bet you wouldn't be very fat either.
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jds100
Dec 13, 2003, 8:33 PM
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Jay,
Is protein always a protein? I've read that soy and other vegetable proteins are not "complete" proteins, that animal protein is superior.
Regarding the Glycemic Index: I have experienced the energy "crash" after eating high GI foods (particularly potatoes, refined bread products, sugars). Other than the obvious negative effect on my energy level, and on the tendency to make the person "feel hungry" shortly afterward thus leading to more calorie consumption, are high GI foods inherently "bad"? It sounds like they're mainly just a poorer source of nutrients, along with some attendant negative side effects.
Regarding the Atkins Diet: I'm personally amazed that anyone still defends the efficacy of it. The one defense that I read in this thread sounds more like the person paid attention to the quality of what was consumed, and to the overall caloric intake, and that would be effective long-term irrespective of how the diet was begun. "Hear-hear" to the assertion that physicians do not get adequate training on nutrition, as a matter of course. If a medical professional recommended it, I would certainly ask for the basis of doing so. Just as any other medical recommendation should, suggesting the Atkins Diet should be based on sound research evidence, not on anecdotal evidence from People Magazine or your neighbor's second cousin. The peer-reviewed, un-biased, sound research to support Atkins just doesn't exist.
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styndall
Dec 13, 2003, 8:43 PM
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Some proteins are incomplete, but you can pair foods to end up with complete proteins. Brown rice and black-eyed peas, for instance, are both delicious together and make a complete protein.
I'm not sure about soy powder being complete or incomplete, but irrespective of my knowledge, it helped me get stronger more quickly. Also, whey powders tend to have lactose in them, which is a no-no for lots of the population (e.g. me) - lactose-free powders are more expensive, and it seems like soy is just the better choice.
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jt512
Dec 15, 2003, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: Jay, Is protein always a protein? I've read that soy and other vegetable proteins are not "complete" proteins, that animal protein is superior.
All proteins are "complete" in the sense that they contain all the essential amino acids. Animal foods tend to contain an efficient mix of amino acids, that is, one approximating what our bodies' need. Individual plant proteins are often short in one or two essential amino acids; however, vegetarians don't eat just one plant protein. In a normal, varied vegetarian diet, the mix of plant proteins consumed includes sufficient amounts of all the essential amino acids. Furthermore, the myth that vegetarian foods need to be eaten in certain combinations in order to provide "complete" or "complementary" proteins has no basis in fact.
-Jay
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jt512
Dec 15, 2003, 5:25 PM
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In reply to: Some proteins are incomplete, but you can pair foods to end up with complete proteins. Brown rice and black-eyed peas, for instance, are both delicious together and make a complete protein.
This commonly held belief is incorrect. See my post above.
-Jay
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xcire
Dec 15, 2003, 5:59 PM
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jay you think if you took in for protein you wouldn't be such a jerk? It sucks to have someone just fill your thread that you worked hard on with useless bashing. Ya should remember this before ya go bashing in everyone elses thread
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jt512
Dec 15, 2003, 6:13 PM
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In reply to: jay you think if you took in for protein you wouldn't be such a jerk? It sucks to have someone just fill your thread that you worked hard on with useless bashing. Ya should remember this before ya go bashing in everyone elses thread
The above post is an off-topic flame, and so I have moved it to Community.
Xcire, just because you work hard on a thread doesn't make it useful. You were stupid enough to have posted a TR about your obnoxous drunken behavior at J Tree, and I and others called you out on it. Your behavior and that of your friends was unacceptable, so what did you expect?
I have also come down hard on you for cluttering up the forums with inane questions; posting multiple, unrelated topics to a single thread; and being too lazy to seek out basic, published climbing information on your own.
When you learn to act like a responsible member of this online community and the larger climbing community, then you can expect to have my respect and that of other climbers. Until then, you won't.
-Jay
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camhead
Dec 15, 2003, 6:22 PM
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whoa.
the respect of other climbers is based upon one's conduct on this website? oh geez. uh oh. shit. SHIT!
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rrrADAM
Dec 15, 2003, 6:28 PM
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I think he is talking more about one's conduct while out at the crags. Read the TR.
Party and fun is good, but we as responsible climbers need to respect our relationship with other users of the parks, and realize that that if we do not, it will effect Access. We also must realize that if we make poor choices like "drunk bouldering", and get injured, it reflects badly on all climbers and can effect Access.
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tradpuppy
Dec 15, 2003, 7:36 PM
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That trip report and the resulting posts make me think of Roughster's thread "Secret Crags". Maybe this will make clear one of the MAIN reasons so many of these places are so jealously guarded, at least here. Thank god there are still many places around here that the gumby crowd either doesn't know about, or are so choked with briars and rhodo and heinous approaches that they wouldn't dare think of going. 10pm has always been pretty much the universal quiet time and until fairly recently, this has been honored and observed. Wonder what brought on the change? :roll:
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tucsonalex
Dec 15, 2003, 8:16 PM
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xcire flames jt512....
And is promptly squashed by Jay's vastly superior verbal skills. The poor kid never stood a chance.
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camhead
Dec 15, 2003, 8:20 PM
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okay, yeah, I read the TR. hehe.
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climbsomething
Dec 15, 2003, 8:29 PM
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In reply to: xcire flames jt512.... And is promptly squashed by Jay's vastly superior verbal skills. The poor kid never stood a chance. |
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xcire
Dec 15, 2003, 9:59 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: jay you think if you took in for protein you wouldn't be such a jerk? It sucks to have someone just fill your thread that you worked hard on with useless bashing. Ya should remember this before ya go bashing in everyone elses thread The above post is an off-topic flame, and so I have moved it to Community. Xcire, just because you work hard on a thread doesn't make it useful. You were stupid enough to have posted a TR about your obnoxious drunken behavior at J Tree, and I and others called you out on it. Your behavior and that of your friends was unacceptable, so what did you expect? I have also come down hard on you for cluttering up the forums with inane questions; posting multiple, unrelated topics to a single thread; and being too lazy to seek out basic, published climbing information on your own. When you learn to act like a responsible member of this online community and the larger climbing community, then you can expect to have my respect and that of other climbers. Until then, you won't. -Jay
No a bunch of people who were not even there just feed off of each other. You seem to just jump right in at any chance to to bash someone. I bet your single. Well i figured id clutter up your thread with a bunch of useless stuff like you seem to do to mine. Im not to worried about your respect. haven't meet anyone in person i haven't got along with and learned from. It just seems to be a few people on here with nothing better to do than bash. Even if you have a valid point the way you get it across is childish. i've never herd so many name calling from someone who is educated. How did my tr turn into a drunken tr? I posted some pics of our trip and if a remember corectly none of us drinking. As a matter of fact i dont remember much talk about drinking at all.
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djmeat
Dec 15, 2003, 10:01 PM
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In reply to: whoa. the respect of other climbers is based upon one's conduct on this website? oh geez. uh oh. s---. s---!
LAUNCH MISSLES!!!
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xcire
Dec 15, 2003, 10:12 PM
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I do want to apologize for ruining this thread for anyone else. I just am sick of people who feel they need to bash on others. From the first day i signed on here jay has found some way to bash me. At times it was probably warranted but the way it is done is unexceptable. @ weeks into climbing im asking typical newbie questions and reciveing comments like "you arogent ass look it up yourself". I have progressed and have tried to add information when possible. I even went and bought a book jay said every newbie should read. I spend 3 hours putting a trip report together about a fun well behaved trip. Ask the majority of people there, and he feels he needs to jump in. I only ask if you cant be an adult stay out of my threads. i am not always right but i refuse to answer to name calling and what does it really acomplish. just because you are a more experienced climber or self proclaimed "messenger of the climbing people" doesn't give you a right to disrespect others. Just my 2cents
and i still cant wait till we get a chance to climb together, maybe you'll meet someone before and give them a chance before jumping to conclusions.
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rrrADAM
Dec 15, 2003, 11:41 PM
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Just to clarrify...
Eric,
Your Trip Report is better than most, and I have read/scanned a bunch of them in my time. I realy like how you personalized it, and I really like your use of pics. It looks like you had a good time, and most importantly, that is what climbing is all about.
The issues Jay and others have, is the one's about the way you acted and your judgement about just a few things. Jay can be harsh at time, and I should know... He and I know each other, have tied in together, and he can even be harsh to me. Jay is just harsh sometimes. Don't personalize that, but look at what he is saying. Access is not too sensitive out at JTree, but our relationship with the Rangers is, and loud and boisterous behavior doesn't help. Jay cares about JTree, as that is one his home crags, just as it is mine, and many others on this site.
Are you a member of the Access Fund ??? If not, then may I suggest that you join, so you will get the newsletters and see just what the issues that effect access most are. It is the conduct of the climbers while at the crags we share with the public. If you cannot afford to join, let me pay 1 year's membership dues for you.
Fair enough ???
~Adam
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climbs4fun
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Dec 15, 2003, 11:59 PM
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Adam is right. Jay can be harsh at times, but a good guy none the less. I told him one night at dinner that he wasn't very warm and fuzzy. He just smiled and wore it like a badge of honor. But if there is one thing that Jay is, it's experienced and for the most part level headed. He's a person that you (and others) could learn a lot from.
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shakylegs
Dec 16, 2003, 12:36 AM
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Here's another view: ya, you've been targeted. Tough luck. You asked one newbie question after another, and jt called you on it.
You seem interested in learning, but you haven't gotten all the details down. One of them is camp etiquette.
J-Tree, for many, is a trip they can only do maybe once a year, and they have a tick list of climbs they want to do and have been training to do. If they get there and are kept up late for several nights in a row, well, it grates at them, and makes it less likely to flash/redpoint their chosen climb. Party loud one night, not a problem. Several nights in a row, you're asking for it.
You're lucky your tents weren't slashed.
Many, many years ago, we rented a sailboat and docked it the first night. We were kept awake by the sound of the lanyards whipping off the masts. We thought it was something with which we had to deal. We were informed, the next day, that if we didn't lash the lanyards, someone would come by and cut them.
Get the feel of your campsite. If you realise that, after a while, you're the only ones up, then head elsewhere.
BTW, really enjoyable TR. Good photos also.
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one900johnnyk
Dec 16, 2003, 12:42 AM
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In reply to: whoa. the respect of other climbers is based upon one's conduct on this website? oh geez. uh oh. s---. s---!
hahahahahaha. ... word.
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xcire
Dec 16, 2003, 3:39 AM
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In reply to: Just to clarrify... Eric, Your Trip Report is better than most, and I have read/scanned a bunch of them in my time. I realy like how you personalized it, and I really like your use of pics. It looks like you had a good time, and most importantly, that is what climbing is all about. The issues Jay and others have, is the one's about the way you acted and your judgement about just a few things. Jay can be harsh at time, and I should know... He and I know each other, have tied in together, and he can even be harsh to me. Jay is just harsh sometimes. Don't personalize that, but look at what he is saying. Access is not too sensitive out at JTree, but our relationship with the Rangers is, and loud and boisterous behavior doesn't help. Jay cares about JTree, as that is one his home crags, just as it is mine, and many others on this site. Are you a member of the Access Fund ??? If not, then may I suggest that you join, so you will get the newsletters and see just what the issues that effect access most are. It is the conduct of the climbers while at the crags we share with the public. If you cannot afford to join, let me pay 1 year's membership dues for you. Fair enough ??? ~Adam
Yes i am a member and thanks for your response. The thing that bothers me is that we were not loud at all. Our drunk boldering consisted of a 4 ft boulder 10 feet from the group campire. We were not screaming or throwing trash around. What bothers me is some one who thinks they can just talk trash. Everyone i have talked with that was there feels there was not a problem. This includes people who went to bed early. jay thinks he can post what ever he thinks without thinking about it. Im not to sure how a comment from someone who dindt have enoughf of a problem about it to ask people to be quite gives someone enough information to think we were being unappropriate. We could have been a little loud while walking past their tent but im not sure how that becomes an axcess issue. it doesnt take much to be talking to loud next to a tent. I spent extra time cleaning to make sure that i did my part and more. I take this serious and do care about our future rights with aspect to climbing. but from my little experience the way some people treat new people on here doesnt go far for adding to the climbers imiage. If some one is in the wrong tell them in an adult manner, yes im wrong at times but im not going to listen to some one calling me names
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curt
Dec 16, 2003, 3:48 AM
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xcire,
Sit down and shut the fukk up kid. OK, now that I have your attention, I want you to know that jt512 and I often argue about things on this website. However, we are friends and climb together occasionally. Jay is a good guy. What you need to realize is that the information he is passing along to you (abrasively perhaps) is for your own good. You would do well to listen instead of defending your past indiscretions. Just a word to the wise--so to speak.
Curt
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tradpuppy
Dec 16, 2003, 4:12 AM
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In reply to: xcire, Sit down and shut the fukk up kid. OK, now that I have your attention, I want you to know that jt512 and I often argue about things on this website. However, we are friends and climb together occasionally. Jay is a good guy. What you need to realize is that the information he is passing along to you (abrasively perhaps) is for your own good. You would do well to listen instead of defending your past indiscretions. Just a word to the wise--so to speak. Curt
YES. In this case, anyway.
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climbs4fun
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003, 5:25 AM
Post #100 of 417
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In reply to: In reply to: Just to clarrify... Eric, Your Trip Report is better than most, and I have read/scanned a bunch of them in my time. I realy like how you personalized it, and I really like your use of pics. It looks like you had a good time, and most importantly, that is what climbing is all about. The issues Jay and others have, is the one's about the way you acted and your judgement about just a few things. Jay can be harsh at time, and I should know... He and I know each other, have tied in together, and he can even be harsh to me. Jay is just harsh sometimes. Don't personalize that, but look at what he is saying. Access is not too sensitive out at JTree, but our relationship with the Rangers is, and loud and boisterous behavior doesn't help. Jay cares about JTree, as that is one his home crags, just as it is mine, and many others on this site. Are you a member of the Access Fund ??? If not, then may I suggest that you join, so you will get the newsletters and see just what the issues that effect access most are. It is the conduct of the climbers while at the crags we share with the public. If you cannot afford to join, let me pay 1 year's membership dues for you. Fair enough ??? ~Adam Yes i am a member and thanks for your response. The thing that bothers me is that we were not loud at all. Our drunk boldering consisted of a 4 ft boulder 10 feet from the group campire. We were not screaming or throwing trash around. What bothers me is some one who thinks they can just talk trash. Everyone i have talked with that was there feels there was not a problem. This includes people who went to bed early. jay thinks he can post what ever he thinks without thinking about it. Im not to sure how a comment from someone who dindt have enoughf of a problem about it to ask people to be quite gives someone enough information to think we were being unappropriate. We could have been a little loud while walking past their tent but im not sure how that becomes an axcess issue. it doesnt take much to be talking to loud next to a tent. I spent extra time cleaning to make sure that i did my part and more. I take this serious and do care about our future rights with aspect to climbing. but from my little experience the way some people treat new people on here doesnt go far for adding to the climbers imiage. If some one is in the wrong tell them in an adult manner, yes im wrong at times but im not going to listen to some one calling me names
I read your tr. I seem to remember somebody that WAS very much annoyed by the drunkeness of your group. And how they were tripping over his tent. What I'm getting at is that most drunk people don't think they are as annoying and intrusive as those around them that are sober think they are. You obviously aren't going to get the answer you want here as most of us are taking Jay's point of view on this one. Good luck. Personally, I think this thread is a waste of server space.
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