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markc
May 17, 2004, 8:17 PM
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In reply to: Euro, you are just trying to sh*t disturb here. I am sure that after this entire thread, your opinion means very little. You should have just let it die. Thread is over, we all have our opinions. Some of us are THIEFS some aren't, some have ETHICS, some don't Cheers, :shock:
I love it when kids yell that a thread is over. Funny as hell. As long as folks still want to post (and the thread isn't locked) it's still open season. I've even seen folks complain about being quoted. Not misquoted, but quoted. You should be willing to stand behind your words. Otherwise, what's the point of saying/writing them?
Anywho, col_sanderz brings up a fine point. Those willing to put the effort in where others aren't get the spoils. Most climbers I know will have mercy and return gear to the proper owners if given the chance. Some go so far as to post signs, which is certainly generous of them. The only things I wouldn't personally do is booty someone's gear right in front of them, or booty gear where a party retreated due to an accident.
If someone leaves gear, they are demonstrating that the value of the gear is less than the value of their life, time, etc. It is abandoned. It can't be stolen, as it was willingly left. It can only be claimed, either by the original owner or a new one. For the love of god, quit crying thief.
2¢,
mark
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p_grandbois
May 17, 2004, 9:14 PM
Post #77 of 87
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Markc, you have no idea what you are talking about....and also, who is the kid, great assumption. You should have just played along, but as usual,,,,,go for personal attacks
You are just as bad as someone trying to end a thread it seems. Plus I was just trying to let the guy save face, cause it seems the core of people who were involved in the Thread have moved on, so maybe the thread isn't over Technically, but it is over. The opinions have been brought up, the dust settled and everyone has gone back to doing what they do.
No climber is going to change how they go about things cause of an internet thread, we all have too big of egos for that.
It's Over, well for me at least and the other 10 people who had some good points.
Cheers
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markc
May 18, 2004, 1:36 PM
Post #78 of 87
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In reply to: Markc, you have no idea what you are talking about....and also, who is the kid, great assumption. You should have just played along, but as usual,,,,,go for personal attacks Cheers
I knew the kid comment would get a rise. If my arguments are all straw men, you should have no trouble in refuting them. Have at. As your definitions of abandoned property versus theft vary so considerably from my own, I'd be interested in hearing them.
I've had gear bootied, and I've had it returned. I've returned property to other folks, and kept it when I couldn't return it. It's all a part of climbing. Being opportunistic is not the same as being a thief. Your opinion on that is obviously different.
Best,
mark
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p_grandbois
May 18, 2004, 1:54 PM
Post #79 of 87
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Mark, The truth of the matter is that I don't want to share my opinions with you, I already have. If you are that interested, read them. I don't feel like escalating another "flame" war. Make whatever assumption you want to about my age, truth is, again I don't care. I hope that in your senseless trolling of this site you get someone to bite. I hear candy works on little kids, try that. Your probing is annoying.
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lockie
May 18, 2004, 8:25 PM
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Registered: May 11, 2004
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How about it someone left gear in because it got dark?
That was my situation one time last year. Fair enough, enthusiasm led to an ill-advised late climb that ended with me half-way up, at the crux, in the dark. I knew it was dumb, so I got back there first thing the next day, before the park opened, and finished/cleaned the route, but knowing it was my fault wouldn't have meant I was less pissed if I returned to find someone had walked around after dark to check for gear on bailed routes. It seems like a similar situation, because had it been raining, I would have been similarly sketched out and inclined to bail. But if I'd heard of vultures checking for gear after dark, I would have been tempted to risk injury to save my new gear, that I'd worked no less hard for than veteran climbers who could top out the route in the dark.
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woffles
May 19, 2004, 6:24 AM
Post #81 of 87
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Registered: May 10, 2004
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I'm new to climbing so I don't know the "rules" to booty yet. I understand some things though. If I run my car into a ditch and can't get it out at the time and have to return the next day with a tow truck and you pull it out before I return and keep it you have just committed a crime.
If my boat breaks down at sea and I request a tow from someone, my boat does not become salvage and their property.
If I was climbing and got in trouble and had to bail and had the intention of coming back for my gear and you had taken it I would hope you had the moral standards to return it if possible. I would. I have ethics and live by them. It isn't hard and I sleep well at night.
Everybody has to make their own choices. I can't make them for you nor dictate them to you. All I can say is choose well and don't fall.
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camoaero
May 19, 2004, 8:50 AM
Post #82 of 87
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Registered: Jun 2, 2002
Posts: 48
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ahhh :cry: .....
.....are you guys done?.....don't stop now...
.....quick!.....someone insult philly.....
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euroford
May 19, 2004, 12:38 PM
Post #83 of 87
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engine trouble isn't exacly an excuse that works for cams. and stop compairing modes of transportation to climbing gear. don't you realize how dumb that sounds??
cars and boats will become abandoned property if you leave them long enough. it just takes a bit longer for the abandoned part to happen on such large expensive stuff.
leaving gear becouse of darkness is not an acceptable excuse, you should have brought a headlamp.
and i thought i said this thread was over??
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woffles
May 19, 2004, 2:22 PM
Post #84 of 87
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Registered: May 10, 2004
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It just comes down to your ethics, nothing else. Peace.
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rckjck12a
May 19, 2004, 9:42 PM
Post #85 of 87
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Registered: Mar 11, 2004
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You are a THEIF. Waiting around to collect left gear is a theif. Period!!!
If you wanted the gear so bad, why didnt you come back the next day and at least give the people a chance to collect there gear. They bailed for whatever reason, and maybee were going to come back and get it that day or the next. I hope that they left bad gear and it fails on you. It will clean out the theif gene pool.
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valeberga
May 19, 2004, 9:47 PM
Post #86 of 87
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Registered: Feb 2, 2003
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In reply to: You are a THEIF. Waiting around to collect left gear is a theif. Period!!! If you wanted the gear so bad, why didnt you come back the next day and at least give the people a chance to collect there gear. They bailed for whatever reason, and maybee were going to come back and get it that day or the next. I hope that they left bad gear and it fails on you. It will clean out the theif gene pool.
Word. :twisted:
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bsignorelli
May 19, 2004, 10:16 PM
Post #87 of 87
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Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 415
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Awesome man...any litter/gear left in a climbing area is free to be picked up by anyone.
Maybe next time don't brag so loudly though :)
Bryan
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