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kobaz
Oct 14, 2004, 10:29 PM
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I wonder who it was that put that bolt up so high on that island, and only one?
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sarcat
Oct 14, 2004, 10:55 PM
Post #102 of 131
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and left the keg way up there unattended by itself....
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climbsomething
Oct 14, 2004, 11:07 PM
Post #103 of 131
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In reply to: and left the keg way up there unattended by itself.... |
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caughtinside
Oct 14, 2004, 11:19 PM
Post #104 of 131
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Kate,
Thank you for bringing into sharp focus just how REAL and IMPORTANT these considerations are.
Oh, and is my island bound companion blonde or brunette?
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holdplease2
Oct 15, 2004, 6:56 AM
Post #105 of 131
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Dirt - Of course she cant climb up there with you...shes a boulderer...
Caughtinside - She is...hmmm...well, she looks blonde, but it could be a dye-job. You'll have to let us know when you find out.
;)
-Kate.
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micon
Oct 15, 2004, 3:04 PM
Post #106 of 131
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Is there any bamboo on this Island. Because I think it would be a good idea to rig up a beer bong down to the hottie. Plus she'd get drunk faster, and I wouldn't have to waste any time talking to her.
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glowering
Oct 15, 2004, 3:38 PM
Post #107 of 131
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In reply to: Now, there is an excellent example of where backclipping actually could be an issue, because a single carabiner can potentially bind tightly against a fixed pin or a bolt hanger. Curt
Its funny how you say I am right but you are still arguing with me about backclipping. Hilarious really. :lol:
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tradman
Oct 15, 2004, 4:42 PM
Post #108 of 131
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I think we should vote for a new addition to the Beginners' Forum FAQ:
"Please be very careful when reading or replying to posts from Curt and alpnclmbr1 in this forum or any other.
When reading, bear in mind that their purpose in posting is not to inform or educate, but to boast shamelessly and verbally abuse newcomers in order to make themselves feel better. You will not see them create and post diagrams or explanations, you will only see them belittle and abuse.
When replying, be aware that contradicting them will only whip them into a fury of self-righteous shrieking peppered with numerious references to ho long they've been climbing and how much better at it than you they are."
:lol: :lol: :lol:
PS: belatedly - I have actually seen a real live backclipping incident. Twice actually, the second time nearly resulting in a high fall and death.
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ebelay
Oct 15, 2004, 5:12 PM
Post #109 of 131
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How entertaining it is to peruse almost a week's worth of pontification and meaningless drivel from the "Lords of the Board". It's really amazing that Curt is such a nice guy in person as he really comes off as a jerk here.
Back-clipped or not. Climb on.
Eric
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curt
Oct 15, 2004, 5:14 PM
Post #110 of 131
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In reply to: I think we should vote for a new addition to the Beginners' Forum FAQ: "Please be very careful when reading or replying to posts from Curt and alpnclmbr1 in this forum or any other. When reading, bear in mind that their purpose in posting is not to inform or educate, but to boast shamelessly and verbally abuse newcomers in order to make themselves feel better. You will not see them create and post diagrams or explanations, you will only see them belittle and abuse. When replying, be aware that contradicting them will only whip them into a fury of self-righteous shrieking peppered with numerious references to ho long they've been climbing and how much better at it than you they are." :lol: :lol: :lol: PS: belatedly - I have actually seen a real live backclipping incident. Twice actually, the second time nearly resulting in a high fall and death.
Perhaps a better rule would be that no one can post anonymously at RC.com, in any forum where actual climbing knowledge is required. This would help prevent people from posting utter nonsense like your post above. Randy Vogel thinks back-clipping is a non-issue and so do I. Jay Tanzman, although on the other side of the issue, has also never seen or heard of anyone coming unclipped from a rope in his 20+ years of climbing from a back-clipped carabiner. Together, we have over 75 years of frequent and regular climbing experience. I call BS on you claiming to have seen this twice yourself. Go back to posting in Community where at least your false and misleading posts are harmless.
Curt
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dirtineye
Oct 15, 2004, 5:21 PM
Post #111 of 131
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In reply to: Dirt - Of course she cant climb up there with you...shes a boulderer... Caughtinside - She is...hmmm...well, she looks blonde, but it could be a dye-job. You'll have to let us know when you find out. ;) -Kate.
kate, sounds like you know this girl pretty well, tell us more. How hard does she boulder?
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curt
Oct 15, 2004, 5:31 PM
Post #112 of 131
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In reply to: In reply to: Now, there is an excellent example of where backclipping actually could be an issue, because a single carabiner can potentially bind tightly against a fixed pin or a bolt hanger. Curt Its funny how you say I am right but you are still arguing with me about backclipping. Hilarious really. :lol:
Finding the only exception to the rule (after I point it out to you) hardly makes you right.
Curt
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dirtineye
Oct 15, 2004, 5:37 PM
Post #113 of 131
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In reply to: In reply to: I think we should vote for a new addition to the Beginners' Forum FAQ: "Please be very careful when reading or replying to posts from Curt and alpnclmbr1 in this forum or any other. When reading, bear in mind that their purpose in posting is not to inform or educate, but to boast shamelessly and verbally abuse newcomers in order to make themselves feel better. You will not see them create and post diagrams or explanations, you will only see them belittle and abuse. When replying, be aware that contradicting them will only whip them into a fury of self-righteous shrieking peppered with numerious references to ho long they've been climbing and how much better at it than you they are." :lol: :lol: :lol: PS: belatedly - I have actually seen a real live backclipping incident. Twice actually, the second time nearly resulting in a high fall and death. Perhaps a better rule would be that no one can post anonymously at RC.com, in any forum where actual climbing knowledge is required. This would help prevent people from posting utter nonsense like your post above. Randy Vogel thinks back-clipping is a non-issue and so do I. Jay Tanzman, although on the other side of the issue, has also never seen or heard of anyone coming unclipped from a rope in his 20+ years of climbing from a back-clipped carabiner. Together, we have over 75 years of frequent and regular climbing experience. I call BS on you claiming to have seen this twice yourself. Go back to posting in Community where at least your false and misleading posts are harmless. Curt
Well I've seen a rope come unclipped on a trad sling, thank god nobody was falling on it at the time. I have no idea if the thing was back clipped or not, because once the rope is unclipped you can't tell how it happened. It was under an overhang, so maybe the climber moved around the rope and wrapped it around the biner or something.
As far as proof positive of a back clip, you'd have to be looking right at the biner and notice that the ropes was back clipped and see it unclip to know for sure, and that just is not going to happen.
But back clipping is so easy to avoid, why is it even an issue?
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axewielder
Oct 15, 2004, 6:17 PM
Post #114 of 131
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Registered: Dec 23, 2003
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Just...try not to back-clip...
What else is there really to say?
Potentially, something bad could happen, and I don't think there's a situation where back-clipping is necessary, so...just...try not to back-clip.
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fredbob
Oct 15, 2004, 6:35 PM
Post #115 of 131
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Registered: Mar 7, 2003
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In reply to: In reply to: Perhaps a better rule would be that no one can post anonymously at RC.com, in any forum where actual climbing knowledge is required. This would help prevent people from posting utter nonsense like your post above. Randy Vogel thinks back-clipping is a non-issue and so do I. Jay Tanzman, although on the other side of the issue, has also never seen or heard of anyone coming unclipped from a rope in his 20+ years of climbing from a back-clipped carabiner. Well I've seen a rope come unclipped on a trad sling, thank god nobody was falling on it at the time. I have no idea if the thing was back clipped or not, because once the rope is unclipped you can't tell how it happened. It was under an overhang, so maybe the climber moved around the rope and wrapped it around the biner or something.
Since I seem to have been drawn more deeply into the fray, perhaps I should clarify my position:
1. On Sport Routes, backclipping is something to avoid and has the potential (though in my view a pretty darn small potential) to cause the rope to become uncliped in a fall.
2. On Trad Routes, backclipping is not [IMO] really an issue. [And wasn't that what all the "back and forth" has really been about - back-clipping on a trad route?]
I highlighted the "in a fall" statement because the potential for a backclipping "accident" really relates to falling past the draw coupled with the falling end of the rope running across the gate and opening the biner. [see the nice illustration previously posted] The observation cited by dirtineye wasn't a fall and thus not a result of the classic back-clipping "danger."
I too have seen ropes do some pretty bizarre things (including coming unclipped from all sorts of things) over the years. There were a variety of explainations of why this happened (just as there is one for dirtineye's experience). But let us not confuse matters here (they seem confused enough.) Back-clipping had nothing to do with what dirtineye saw happen.
The potential for a back-clipping incident on a sport route requires very precise circumstances which include: (1) proper angle (steepness) of the rock, (2) proper angle of climber above last draw, and (3) proper tension on the rope. The coincidence of all these factors is rare, but certainly possible.
So, if you are sport climbing, you may want to have the "back-clipping" avoidence thing dialed. And it is true many gyms seem particularly attuned to climbers who back clip. [At my gym, I seem to be a regular and hopeless offender.]
For trad, forget worrying about it, you should have more serious things on your mind.
[minor edit for clarity]
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glowering
Oct 15, 2004, 7:58 PM
Post #116 of 131
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Registered: Oct 13, 2002
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In reply to: Finding the only exception to the rule (after I point it out to you) hardly makes you right. Curt
It's not the only exception to the 'rule', I've pointed out others which you haven't addressed.
You didn't point it out to me, I pointed it out to you previously, perhaps you missed it.
In reply to: What about a bolt or pin on a trad route clipped with a quick draw or just a biner? Posted: 13 Oct 2004 14:13
In reply to: Its funny how you say I am right but you are still arguing with me about backclipping. Hilarious really.
Those are your words I just cut and pasted from a previous post.
You used them when I argeed with you that there needs to be resistance on the biner for backclipping to lead to unclipping. I wasn't agreeing with your original statement but you tried to make it seem that way.
But your statement DOES make me right. You said don't have to worry about back-clipping on trad climbs, but then admitted there is at least one circumstance when you do, which is my point.
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curt
Oct 15, 2004, 8:44 PM
Post #117 of 131
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In reply to: But your statement DOES make me right. You said don't have to worry about back-clipping on trad climbs, but then admitted there is at least one circumstance when you do, which is my point.
But, you have to create an artificial circumstance for your statement to be true. Since nobody does clip into a bolt or piton with just a single carabiner (or shouldn't anyway) I still maintain you do not have to worry about back-clipping when trad climbing--at all. You can go on thinking you are right though, if you like. :roll:
Curt
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glowering
Oct 15, 2004, 8:54 PM
Post #118 of 131
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In reply to: But, you have to create an artificial circumstance for your statement to be true. Since nobody does clip into a bolt or piton with just a single carabiner (or shouldn't anyway) I still maintain you do not have to worry about back-clipping when trad climbing--at all. You can go on thinking you are right though, if you like. :roll: Curt
If you consider aid is trad I do this all the time. Or if you are running low on biners. I also mentioned other circumstances in trad when IMO you should not backclip.
You can go on never admitting when you are wrong though.
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glowering
Oct 15, 2004, 9:07 PM
Post #119 of 131
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In reply to: But, you have to create an artificial circumstance for your statement to be true. Since nobody does clip into a bolt or piton with just a single carabiner (or shouldn't anyway) I still maintain you do not have to worry about back-clipping when trad climbing--at all. You can go on thinking you are right though, if you like. :roll: Curt
If you consider aid is trad I do this all the time. Or if you are running low on biners. I also mentioned other circumstances in trad when IMO you should not backclip.
You can go on never admitting when you are wrong though.
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curt
Oct 15, 2004, 9:12 PM
Post #120 of 131
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You must have really meant that, since you posted it twice. Haha.
Curt
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glowering
Oct 15, 2004, 9:17 PM
Post #121 of 131
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I guess it's that filter thing 'cause I'm not seeing either one.
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glowering
Oct 15, 2004, 9:30 PM
Post #122 of 131
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Yup, now I realize why page 8 kept saying no posts exist for this topic. :oops:
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curt
Oct 15, 2004, 9:39 PM
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In reply to: You can go on never admitting when you are wrong though.
And you can go on impersonating someone who knows what they are talking about. :D Its pretty clear to me that neither of us is going to change their position on this, so we should probably just agree to disagree on this one.
Curt
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kpalsson
Oct 16, 2004, 3:15 PM
Post #124 of 131
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Registered: Jan 16, 2004
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for more fuel, Boone Speed has gone on record saying backclipping is not something to stress about to much. Not that it was not important, just that there were many other things to be worried about that were more important.
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 16, 2004, 4:29 PM
Post #125 of 131
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Registered: Dec 10, 2002
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Only gumbies backclip on a sport climb.
Only foolish gumbies climb above a backclipped draw.
Only paranoid gumbies would give up an on-sight in order to fix a backclipped draw. (If it is really dangerous, fix it and screw the OS.)
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