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drfelatio
Dec 6, 2004, 11:18 PM
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ATC definately. Its a simple, effective, and versatile device. If you need the extra friction, by all means get the ATC-XP or a Jaws. If you're worried he's going to drop you by all means get a different belayer. You don't want to climb and constantly think about whether or not you trust the person on the other end of the rope.
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p_grandbois
Dec 6, 2004, 11:22 PM
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Depends on his technique, ATC XP has the same lowering ease as a gri gri but a gri gri is safer on the top rope. I myself don't really use my gri gri for anything because I am always leading and prefer a good old ATC cause of the feel. If you are comfortable with his skills I say give him an ATC but if you are questioning it at all give him a gri gri and make sure he knows how to lower you.
Cheers
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jpdreamer
Dec 7, 2004, 12:35 AM
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Several people have posted that the Gri-Gri is a sport climber device. I havn't used one myself, but I recall hearing from some aid climbers who prefer to use the Gri-Gri while aid belaying since progress is so much slower.
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melodicllama
Dec 7, 2004, 12:53 AM
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i agree with the numerous people that have mentioned the ATC-XP. it greatly increases friction. it is my device of choice for belaying the more hefty of our climbing community :wink:
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wingnut
Dec 19, 2004, 6:40 PM
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ATC-XP definetly. Jaws would work good too.
____________________
I refuse to accept your reality, and substitute my own.
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gunksgoer
Dec 19, 2004, 7:12 PM
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id say the ATC-XP, as it provides good friction while still being basic. One device i would advise u to stay away from is the reverso. Although it is probably my favorite device to use for trad, i wouldnt reccomend it for just regular toproping, as its friction seems to be slightly less then the regular atc, nothing really to worry about tho, its just not what u would want.
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napoleon_in_rags
Dec 19, 2004, 7:33 PM
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ATC. You should learn on an ATC and later use a Gri-Gri. Go for the hard way before you go for the easy way.
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saskrock
Dec 19, 2004, 8:15 PM
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Shouldn't matter especially at that age, more of a trust issue.
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kman
Dec 19, 2004, 10:17 PM
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In reply to: ...who may be an idiot. A grigri might offer some increase in safety
Sorry...but a gri-gri does not offer an increase in safety when it comes to idiots belaying.
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omeier
Dec 19, 2004, 10:22 PM
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I would say get the atc. I bought a gri-gri a while back for some lazy friends of mine who i was teaching to climb;however i rarely use it. sometimes i get it out for belaying a leader but i usually forget i have it or leave it at home. Atleast for me it seems to make me a lazy belayer, i just put tension on the line and wait for it to go slack, rather than watching the climber. with an atc or similar device its easier to feed and pull out slack fast and it can force you to be semi attentive.
hope that helps
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grimpiperx
Dec 19, 2004, 10:41 PM
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In reply to: ATC. You should learn on an ATC and later use a Gri-Gri. Go for the hard way before you go for the easy way.
I agree completely. Use the ATC until he can belay in his sleep, then he can be lazy and use a Gri-Gri.
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moondog
Dec 24, 2004, 7:07 PM
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In reply to: Anyway - the question is should I invest in a Gri-gri ? Just wondering if this would be a safer option than the atc.
One should think of the Grigri as a laborsaving device instead of a security upgrade as it's not inherently safer than any other device. The Grigri makes belay duty easier by reducing the effort required to catch and hold falls, a real advantage in sport climbing.
Some gyms probably use the Grigri thinking it provides a "back up" of sorts for inexperienced belayers. Determining the validty of such thinking is difficult as meaningful statistics are sadly lacking. Durability/value is another factor in gym use as the primary friction elements are made of stainless steel and will thus far outlast any traditional device/biner setup.
Using the Grigri properly (unsupervised) requires knowledge and experience that is best gained with traditional techniques and devices. Better to learn how to belay and develop the proper reflexes before trying a more complex device such as the Grigri.
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kreate
Dec 24, 2004, 9:15 PM
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personaly i would buy him an atc. reason being> i think one is better off learning to proficently use the most basic of equipment first. the whole walik before crawl thing. when learning to lead trad my mentor only let me use hexes and stopers. i lead for a year before placing my first friend and benifited greatly. aside from my rantings i think that you have more controll of the rope (more feel if you will) with an atc. its also easier to lead belay with an atc. but if your worried about catching get a grigri.
either way
-later days
kreate
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chalkfree
Dec 27, 2004, 5:49 AM
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From another climbing wall staff person.... Who weighs 120 soaking wet, and who's friends are massive.
The rules at most walls are different, but I'd put a half twist in the line, use the floor anchor, and definitely an ATC or equivilant, (I prefer the reverso, but my preferance is to be familiar with somethings it does in lead climbing). The ideas about increasing friction are all pretty solid, double biners is cool, the half twist is fine for the rope.
As far as the Grigri goes I'd never let someone I was the least bit worried about use one, it's just too iffy. I'd much rather see a beginer struggle to set up a belay with an atc, and have a third back them up then see a newbie with a grigri. The potential panic reaction is just too pervasive.
Maybe a munter hitch if your wall staff will have it, I know I'd let it go after some observation. That'll definitely get you some added friction. Just don't have too much.
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bouldrinsoill
Dec 27, 2004, 7:48 AM
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He's 18 for Christs sake!!! Don't insult him by making him belay with a GriGri....
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kathy
Dec 27, 2004, 8:43 AM
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In reply to: If you already own a standard ATC, just add a second biner right next to the first. This will create a little more friction for him.
do you mean when clipping the ATC into the belay loop?
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kbanks
Feb 4, 2005, 12:36 AM
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Registered: Dec 25, 2004
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In reply to: Shouldn't matter especially at that age, more of a trust issue.
kbanks
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speedyz2
Feb 4, 2005, 3:16 AM
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I'm going to have to say the Reverso...seems tow ork pretty well. used like and atc but can still have the effect of a Gri-Gri with more friction, etc.
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