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madbolter
May 16, 2002, 12:24 AM
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I don't know why the system was dismissed by JL/JM. There is a re-learning curve.
freezerfrost issues a few challenges, some of which I can try to address (but I won't claim to be an expert on them just quite yet...)
Can the aid-triers be used as long slings? Sure. Tie a fig 8 on a bight or overhand OAB in the bottom, (no way that even with slippery Spectra that the bottom ring is going to pull thru) clip to the top. Voila. Bomber long sling. Same length as a 5 step aider. OTOH, neither manufacturer would recommend using their product this way. But in a pinch, you do what you have to do and accept a certain amount of risk.
Clipping something heavy at the belay? The rings are Titanium fer dog's sake. Triple bar tacks. Spectra webbing. People bounce test the rig to loads heavier than anything you can haul to clip into it. They're bomber.
You're on a slab and want to stand in hero loops? Fine. Clip a small sling to a biner and leave it. Sure beats having to reach that far down to retrieve your conventional aiders--especially if you're launching out into freeclimbing.
The Russian system is nice in that it changes the pivot point of your bodyweight from your feet to just below your knees.
It wraps around your thigh with a padded sling that I think would be hard to replicate in the field.
Sorry freezerfrost, you are 0-3.
[ This Message was edited by: madbolter on 2002-05-15 17:35 ]
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krustyklimber
May 16, 2002, 4:26 AM
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Hey this new guy Madbolter is RAD!!!
Sorry I fell behind and missed your welcoming, Welcome! It is good to have someone around to clearly make these points. I agree with what you say above about the re-learning curve. Being older myself, you'd think I'd be a victim of it, far from it! I know a good honest answer, and "the better way" when I hear/see it!
Everything else, for the most part, JM & JL have written is outdated and unfortunatly they are letting themselves become some as well!
"We try and try to keep things the same. They call it progress"
Andrew Firpo (a very good friend of mine I miss a lot I've used this quote before, as it applies to stagnated thinking)
Jeff
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bigwalling
May 16, 2002, 4:33 AM
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Madbolter does rock! His site is my favorite personal climbing site. So many topos on it. And some cool trip reports.
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krustyklimber
May 16, 2002, 4:56 AM
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His sight? I missed it, do tell us again, where?
Jeff
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bigwalling
May 16, 2002, 5:03 AM
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Bigwall.com it rules! Everyone check it out if you want to see topos for zion and other areas.
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krustyklimber
May 16, 2002, 5:14 AM
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Thanks Jake!!!
Jeff
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crap
May 16, 2002, 8:13 PM
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I won the Ebay auction! YES! These are the grapes of VICTORY!
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madbolter
May 17, 2002, 5:14 PM
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Velcome to de Party, Comrade.
Interesting to see that they went for just over $130 (essentially the same as what Trango was charging).
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krustyklimber
Jun 2, 2002, 6:14 AM
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Two more pairs/sets have surfaced, I saw them at Feathered Friends retail store! They go for 130 bucks I don't care if they make me fly like Peter Pan, I'm not payin' $130 for aiders!
So I thought I'd pass the word along here!
Jeff
P.S. Let me know who buys them!
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crap
Jun 4, 2002, 8:23 PM
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$130 is a lot, but when you compare them to 4 Yates aiders its actualy cheaper.
Of course its all for nothing if the person you buy them from on Ebay never mails them. What gives, I'm still waiting?
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krustyklimber
Jun 4, 2002, 10:59 PM
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That's probably why I don't own four Yates aiders either!
Sorry to haer about your shipping troubles!
Jeff
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johnhenry
Jun 6, 2002, 12:46 AM
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I GOT A SET!!!!!!!!
Thanks to Jeffs watchful eye and a sweet, five foot tall, Japanese girl [with a credit card], I was able to score what may well be the last set in the retail market.
Rex, Pete, et. al., if you have a line on a manufacturer who can make extra aid-tiers, put me down for a set.
Thanks for the help!!!
Rock on,
John
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passthepitonspete
Jun 7, 2002, 6:31 AM
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After having just climbed the West Face of the Leaning Tower, and then Excalibur on El Cap, I can say without reservation or equivocation that the Trango Russian Aider system is emphatically The Shit.
In fact, I have only offered this endorsement once before (for the Metolius adjustable daisies)
BUT...
Dr. Piton hereby awards the
Wee-Wee the Big Wall Crab Seal of Endorsement
to the Trango Russian Aider system.
Get this - you can topstep on those mothers like there is no tomorrow!
I'm not exactly tall (5' 9") but on Excalibur I made a placement that was five and a half feet above the one on which I was topstepping!
C'mon, eh? How high can YOU topstep? Four feet? Maybe on a good day?
Topstepping is the RULE with the Russian Aiders! It's so damn EASY, it seems like CHEATING! Virtually EVERY placement you make is a topstep - it's like working out of your second steps all the time. You just get used to seeing the fifi pointing down.
And when you really need to make the reach, then just put the hook right into the piece.
Truly amazing. Feels like cheating.
[Note: Dr. Piton applauds the concept of "cheating" whenever possible - he is, after all, an aid climber...]
As far as Dr. Piton is concerned, the traditional system of aiders is completely obsolete.
Mark my words - I will NEVER go back to the Traditional system.
I'm sold for good.
Now....
someone get me a pair of these damn things that I can actually OWN. The ones I'm using are borrowed, and I have to [regretfully] give them back.
Sheesh.
Is Fish going to make these things???
Someone please find out!
I'm off to send Shortest Straw.
Feels like cheating.
Perfect.
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feelio
Jun 7, 2002, 4:54 PM
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I WANT TO CHECK THESE OUT SO BAD!!! I am 6'4 and i want even more reach!!!!!
Everyone who is even remotely interested should send Russ a mail at Fish Products!.
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rocknpowda
Jun 7, 2002, 5:16 PM
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I haven't tried them but I hear they are also good for making free moves between aiding because the system as a whole is less bulky. I'd love to try them sometime.
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theamish
Jun 7, 2002, 6:06 PM
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I don't want to get your hopes up but the following site lists them and when I called them they said they were out at the moment but knew where they could get some more:
http://knradventuregear.com/miscclimbgear/trango_aiders/trangoaider.htm
Good luck
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russwalling
Jun 12, 2002, 6:59 PM
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Russian Update:
Got some samples.
Got some hardware, (thanks Trango)
Got some input.
Looked them over.
Need the hook part..... any ideas?
Need time to make them.
adios,
Russ
FishProducts.com
(first post ever! Glad to be here.)
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tim
Jun 12, 2002, 7:35 PM
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dsfanda:
Tom is a huge stud. He's the guy who enlightened me to the possibilities of a 70m rope on trad routes... if the Russian Aiders are so good that he swears by them, I may have to sell my Wall Ladders (assuming Fish starts making the Russian Aiders, and assuming that I can sucker^H^H^H^H^H^Hentice some partners into doing stuff on Looking Glass or Table Rock (SC) this summer).
Do you live in Marin or just run into him in the Valley or Needles or thereabouts?
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wigglestick
Jun 12, 2002, 7:48 PM
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It is about time the man, the myth, the legend, The Fish poked his head into Rockclimbing.com. I have noticed a number of notable climbers joining the site lately. John Gill, Steven Jeffery, and now Russ Walling. Wow. For all of you that don't know. Russ is the man. He knows his shit. And he hooked me up with a killer deal on a Double Whammy Ledge awhile back. Really nice guy. Welcome to the site. If Fish Products starts to make these russian dohickeys sign me up for a pair.
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feelio
Jun 12, 2002, 7:52 PM
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Yo russ, would modified cliffhangers work? Surely you could get a machinist or someone to do 'em. Look at all these posts of folks that want 'em!! Money just waiting to be put in your hands for some Fish Commie aiders, Or call them Rooskies, or Reds, Or glasnost Aiders cause it's easy to go free, or some Fish Vladimeers, or Fish Stalins.......ok, man I am fookin bored. At any rate, I have CASH IN HAND!!!!!!!!
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madbolter
Jun 13, 2002, 3:33 PM
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Russ, for the hooks, why not enlist crazy ol' Ed Leeper? Or Forrest Gardiner (Vermin). They make good ones. The hooks don't have to be Titanium. Nor do the rings. I've seen some good steel 1.5" ones at my local rigging store for cheap.
Some modifications to Trango's design would be welcome. More padding around the calf, especially where Trango has none. Get rid of the jingus velcro strap. I replaced mine with some belts I salvaged from old Grammici shorts. (Essentially your basic cam lock buckle on flat webbing) Works far better and doesn't need to be duct taped shut.
Welcome to yet another place to waste your time. Cheers!
[ This Message was edited by: madbolter on 2002-06-13 08:34 ]
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passthepitonspete
Jun 26, 2002, 11:21 PM
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I concur. Improvements required:
Better "chicken loop" - the velcro strap that goes round the foot. The velcro is insufficient to hold them in place. The pair I borrowed had one of the velcro pads on the wrong side, requiring the strap be twisted ninety degrees. Not good - mobius strips do not occur in nature.
More padding on the calf.
Better buckle system for both calf and foot which doesn't slip, and doesn't require "tying off" to prevent slippage.
Burlier strap beneath the foot less prone to abrasion.
Lower cost.
Suggestions:
Rappel rings instead of titanium to reduce cost
Possibly a Leeper hook on the calf, or something slightly smaller than a regular Chouinard
Another option would be the little hooks that Petzl sells. I do not know if they are the manufacturer or not.
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punk
Jun 26, 2002, 11:43 PM
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If I may add,
Instead the straps think more of a gaiter with hill cap, and not strap. it will facilitate standing straight making the max out of top stepping and the hook should have flat contact surface making the contact point less wobbly
STUBAI's CLIFFHAGER ROUND
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justsendingits
Jun 27, 2002, 5:23 AM
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can't wait to get my hands,er, feet in a pair,hope I can get some before I leave for Yosemite6/29---I could have them shipped gen Del.----Anybody know where to get them?
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philbox
Moderator
Jul 5, 2002, 4:01 AM
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I just "discovered" some of my pics of the Russian Aid system which put to good use recently down at Frog Buttress.
Go to this site for lots more pics of the system at work.
http://www.pbase.com/phil_box/aid_climbing_frog_buttress&page=4
...Phil...
[ This Message was edited by: philbox on 2002-07-05 03:48 ]
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