So this weekend I dropped my petzl reverso and attache about 60ish feet. Not sure how it happened, I'm guessing part of my shirt got caught in the gate when I clipped it to my harness because when I reached up to unlock a different biner, i heard it unclip and fall.
Bassically, it slid down a slabby face and then dropped off the vertical face. My partner down below saw it happen and tried to catch it. It bounced off of his palm and landed in the dirt at his feet.

It didn't land directly on rock or anything just in the dirt.
I am convinced it is totally safe in that it didn't impact any rock at the base of the climb. My partner on the other hand is skeptical.
I just wanted to get some other opinions.

Thanks

Have a look at the gate, does it close properly? Yes? Good to go.

The OP is asking about the belay device, not the biner, as evidenced by the subject of: "Dropped belay device still safe?"
Do you even bother to read before you post a reply?

The OP is asking about the belay device, not the biner, as evidenced by the subject of: "Dropped belay device still safe?"
Do you even bother to read before you post a reply?

...so what is your life worth?

many years ago, one of the hardware mfgs dropped 100 hardware and did an extensive testing after each drop and discovered that almost 90+% of the dropped gear were fine but then you got the few which did not.

Aluminum is not a metal that you can easily detect internal cracks or signs of stress by visual inspection. To be able to see stress factors, you must use an x-ray or do other test such as ultrasonic which YOU do not have at home so what is your life worth?

so what is your partner's life worth?

many years ago, one of the hardware mfgs dropped 100 hardware and did an extensive testing after each drop and discovered that almost 90+% of the dropped gear were fine but then you got the few which did not.

Aluminum is not a metal that you can easily detect internal cracks or signs of stress by visual inspection. To be able to see stress factors, you must use an x-ray or do other test such as ultrasonic which YOU do not have at home so what is your life worth?

Really... Hmmm. See I to read the same article but the actual results was 100% of the devices were safe. And it was REI that did the test. And it was on carabiners. REI found that all of their carabiners they dropped failed above their rating.

The OP is asking about the belay device, not the biner, as evidenced by the subject of: "Dropped belay device still safe?"
Do you even bother to read before you post a reply?

many years ago, one of the hardware mfgs dropped 100 hardware and did an extensive testing after each drop and discovered that almost 90+% of the dropped gear were fine but then you got the few which did not.

Aluminum is not a metal that you can easily detect internal cracks or signs of stress by visual inspection. To be able to see stress factors, you must use an x-ray or do other test such as ultrasonic which YOU do not have at home so what is your life worth?

many years ago, one of the hardware mfgs dropped 100 hardware and did an extensive testing after each drop and discovered that almost 90+% of the dropped gear were fine but then you got the few which did not.

Aluminum is not a metal that you can easily detect internal cracks or signs of stress by visual inspection. To be able to see stress factors, you must use an x-ray or do other test such as ultrasonic which YOU do not have at home so what is your life worth?

i dropped my reverso - hit the talus from about 200' up. didn't even bother lookin for it. but that's me

I'm calling BS as well. But what else is new?
Reference please...

I'm calling BS as well. But what else is new?
Reference please...

You call it BS cause you are Pendejo and can tell the difference between sh*t and burrito . Here smoke this (+==) chingon and come back when you feel like you know something.

majid is absolutely right, you won't be able to see internal fractures in aluminum like in most other materials except glass.

There's the majid I know...

So this weekend I dropped my petzl reverso and attache about 60ish feet. Not sure how it happened, I'm guessing part of my shirt got caught in the gate when I clipped it to my harness because when I reached up to unlock a different biner, i heard it unclip and fall.

Apparently you weren't climbing hard enough, or the shirt would have been a non-issue.

There's the majid I know...

careful trenchdigger - the majid i know will make you his women

My partner down below saw it happen and tried to catch it. It bounced off of his palm and landed in the dirt at his feet.

many years ago, one of the hardware mfgs dropped 100 hardware and did an extensive testing after each drop and discovered that almost 90+% of the dropped gear were fine but then you got the few which did not.

Aluminum is not a metal that you can easily detect internal cracks or signs of stress by visual inspection. To be able to see stress factors, you must use an x-ray or do other test such as ultrasonic which YOU do not have at home so what is your life worth?

This was in no way, shape, or form a definitive test.

Sure sounds like you're speaking from personal experience....

Is there a report, ever, of a tube style belay device breaking? Under any conditions?

So this weekend I dropped my petzl reverso and attache about 60ish feet. Not sure how it happened, I'm guessing part of my shirt got caught in the gate when I clipped it to my harness because when I reached up to unlock a different biner, i heard it unclip and fall.
Bassically, it slid down a slabby face and then dropped off the vertical face. My partner down below saw it happen and tried to catch it. It bounced off of his palm and landed in the dirt at his feet.

It didn't land directly on rock or anything just in the dirt.
I am convinced it is totally safe in that it didn't impact any rock at the base of the climb. My partner on the other hand is skeptical.
I just wanted to get some other opinions.

Thanks

This is exactly what I've been thinking while reading this thread. All your belay device does is provide friction in the setup. If you take a moment to think about the actual forces induced upon it, common sense says that even if if did have a visible crack in it, it'd probably still not "break" during use.

Oh, if it's got a visible crack in the main body, I bet it'd break no problem from a hard fall. adatesman - I've got more old ATCs than I know what to do with, wanna flex one til you can get it to crack, then destroy it in a slow pull test on a rope through it to see how much force it takes to explode it?

GO

PS microfractures in dropped gear are a myth.

Oh, if it's got a visible crack in the main body, I bet it'd break no problem from a hard fall. adatesman - I've got more old ATCs than I know what to do with, wanna flex one til you can get it to crack, then destroy it in a slow pull test on a rope through it to see how much force it takes to explode it?

GO

PS microfractures in dropped gear are a myth.

In what scenario is this even a possibility? An atc or reverso "flexing" to metal fatigue? When does this happen?

"Exploding" belay devices? Jesus Christ, can't we use some common sense for a minute?

Bash the shit out of your atc with a hammer for a couple of minutes and then send it to ad. If he can still get one through the holes, I bet any rope breaks every single time before the device fails.

even if if did have a visible crack in it, it'd probably still not "break" during use.

Tell you what - I'm climbing tonight. If I have my extra atc with me, I will hit it a couple of times with a hammer, drive my car over it, and drop a small boulder on top of it if I can find one. That's at least as bad as dropping it 60 feet into the dirt, doncha think? I'll inspect it, and if it looks good, I'll have someone belay me with it. If it looks like it's been compromised, I'll send it to adatesman along with a piece of rope for testing.

...
Consider this. Black Diamond themselves specifically state that dropped carabiners are likely safe to use if the gate action is good and there is no visible damage to the carabiner on their website.

if you can drop a carabiner from such a height as to damage the one on the website, i'll go over there and create a multpitch crag on hawaii for you!!

Never. Duh. The question wasn't "how could you get a visible crack in your device by dropping it?" Because you couldn't. You could drop it off El Cap, the device doesn't have enough mass to hit with enough impact to hurt itself that much. But again, that wasn't the point.

Is there a report, ever, of a tube style belay device breaking? Under any conditions?

think of it this way. how much is your life worth? and your partners life? go out and buy another one.

This is exactly what I've been thinking while reading this thread. All your belay device does is provide friction in the setup. If you take a moment to think about the actual forces induced upon it, common sense says that even if if did have a visible crack in it, it'd probably still not "break" during use.

If the OP dropped the carabiner 60 feet and it hit his partner’s hand and landed in the dirt its ultra likely that its fine.

I thought about it a moment and think that the force on a belay device locally might be around 1.3 times the tension in the rope. I don't think I'd trust a cracked belay device.

Jay

Never. Duh. The question wasn't "how could you get a visible crack in your device by dropping it?" Because you couldn't. You could drop it off El Cap, the device doesn't have enough mass to hit with enough impact to hurt itself that much. But again, that wasn't the point.


Well, I think it would at least make a loud "ping" sound when it broke at the crack. "Exploding" is a relative term.


That's not the question. Bash it with a hammer and all you're going to do is flatten it. In order to get a visible crack, you'll have to stress it until it cracks. This was your hypothesis - I didn't come up with it. You said:

In reply to:

even if if did have a visible crack in it, it'd probably still not "break" during use.

Again, irrelevant. I think I stated my experiment pretty clearly, and I think it would prove or disprove your statment perfectly well. Apparently rather than stand behind your statement, you feel the need to obfuscate it.

GO

I thought about it a moment and think that the force on a belay device locally might be around 1.3 times the tension in the rope. I don't think I'd trust a cracked belay device.

While I wasn't concerned about "microfractures", the bouncing off the rock created some sharp burrs on the outside. Not a structural issue, but I was concerned about the burrs slicing the sheath if the rope ran over it under pressure, like on rap. I wanted an ATC Guide anyway so I retired it.

Since then I've filed away the burrs (so as not to scratch any of the books on the shelf where I put it). I could probably grind away the rough spots as well; if I didn't buy the Guide I'd still be using it.

Hey JustRoberto, you're right, I confused you with bigjonnyc. He's the one that's (probably) wrong, you're just the one foaming at the mouth at the thought of me and adatesman having a little fun while destroying a device.

Angry - I'm still waiting to hear back from adatesman. If he's willing to do the test I proposed (I'm even willing to take the time to put the crack in the device before I send it to him) then I'll mail him one of my ATCs.

GO

Does anyone remember that scene from "Scanners" when that dude's head exploded? Thats how I feel right now.

application of 420 or 600 grit aluminum oxide sandpaper, and you've got yourself a spare.

I thought about it a moment and think that the force on a belay device locally might be around 1.3 times the tension in the rope. I don't think I'd trust a cracked belay device.

Jay