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angry
Mar 22, 2004, 10:36 PM
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Got in this discussion in the desert this weekend. I like the corners, my partner however states emphatically that they are all gay. His arguement is that corners are a good bit easier laying the sucka back, if you climb it straight in, it's harder. To have 2 rating for a route in his opinion is gay, but to give it the lieback rating means that it would be sandbagged if you climbed it straight in.
I can name many examples of routes where this is the case, I climb everything straight in unless I absoletely have to. I don't really care how someone else climbs it and if they want to place all their gear off a layback, well that is fine by me. It doesn't make the route gay.
I'm convinced that my partner hates climbing and is coming up with excuses to just go do the same 5 routes over and over again.
Discuss.
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keinangst
Mar 22, 2004, 10:38 PM
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In reply to: Got in this discussion in the desert this weekend. I like the corners, my partner however states emphatically that they are all gay.
Well, I was jamming up a cracked dihedral the other day, and sure enough, it grabbed a hold of my caulk and wouldn't let go.
Therefore, I have to agree with your friend. Or at least they're bi-curious.
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slablizard
Mar 22, 2004, 10:40 PM
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LOL!
The stuff you guys smoke must be way better than mine.
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chupa
Mar 22, 2004, 10:41 PM
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Yeah,
If you lieback the Bachar-Yerian that would be harder too. I guess that needs 2 grades.
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atg200
Mar 22, 2004, 10:56 PM
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if you want to lead those desert corners as a lieback, go ahead and downgrade it. but, by his insane rational rattly finger cracks are gay because they are sweet hand cracks for pixie-like girls and rattly fists are gay because they are big hands for a dude like peter croft that has huge mitts.
ratings on desert racks are decorations - no more.
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slavetogravity
Mar 22, 2004, 10:57 PM
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Based on your description of your friend I would say that anyone who finds lay backing up a corner crack easier then jamming it is a no talent hack, who couldn’t climb there way out of a cardboard box. If he was a wicked crack jamming all star, like me, I'm sure he'd find desert corners much more enjoyable. As for things that ARE gay, I'd say climbing the same 5 routes day after day fits the bill quite nicely.
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angry
Mar 22, 2004, 11:35 PM
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Well to defend my partner, he climbs everything straight in. He couldn't do a layback if his life depended on it. If it's a numbers game, the guy is tougher than 90% of the people who frequent southern utah. His problem is how picky he is, climbing is fun because climbing is fun, that is what he struggles with. Evan after doing some perfect crack that he totally enjoyed, he still says how it could have been better.
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rrrADAM
Mar 22, 2004, 11:41 PM
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Climbers who frown or look down on another form, style, or type of climbing are gay.
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dirtineye
Mar 23, 2004, 12:03 AM
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You and your partner need to get a room. He is not only gay, as gay as the gayest dihedral, of which by the way some are actually Trisexual, since some can be stemmed, jammed or laid back, but he is a perfectionist and a route snob as well. Get away fast before you are permanently damaged. Oh wait, I forgot, from your picture you have already died, so it does not matter. The dead need not worry about sexuality. Or being corrupted by perfectionist route snobs. Or anything, actually. That's because they are dead. I think.
Trade you some of yours for some of mine.
But seriously, maybe you can convince him that climbing in the most efficient way is not the same way for every climber, and that he should just chill.
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kalcario
Mar 23, 2004, 12:46 AM
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Doing corners straight in is gayer than laybacking. First of all, you can't go straight in because the sidewall of the dihedral is in the way, which means you end up scumming your shoulder against the wall and practically getting no hands rests. We used to refer to this technique as "pillow-biting" back when single pitch trad climbing was still relevant and non-boring. Like 25 years ago. Secondly, any technique which renders bone wedging..ah, excuse me, crack climbing, any easier than it already is, is an admission that even this most basic of climbing techniques is over one's head-sort of like using a calculator at the 99 cent discount store. If your partner, or you, are looking for a way to make climbing more strenuous, try those scuba diving weight belts. Or sport climbing.
Hope this helps.
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atg200
Mar 23, 2004, 12:53 AM
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not really asshole. go glue some chossy limestone together and pose.
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 12:55 AM
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In reply to: not really asshole. go glue some chossy limestone together and pose.
But how do you really feel?
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atg200
Mar 23, 2004, 12:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: not really asshole. go glue some chossy limestone together and pose. But how do you really feel?
i just get so sick of this pretentious ass sniping at crack climbers in every crack technique thread and indian creek picture on the whole damn site. i suppose i should killfile him, but i like his photography.
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kalcario
Mar 23, 2004, 1:02 AM
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*not really asshole. go glue some chossy limestone together and pose.*
ah...thank you Clarice...thank you...
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 1:04 AM
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In reply to: i just get so sick of this pretentious ass sniping at crack climbers in every crack technique thread and indian creek picture on the whole damn site. i suppose i should killfile him, but i like his photography.
It's tough being a hetorosexual in a sport climber's world and it's messing with his psyche. At one point he actually did plenty of trad but then some biker dude with backless chaps taught him the wonders of clipping bolts and well, you can see what's happened.... :D
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atg200
Mar 23, 2004, 1:06 AM
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it was worth reading his post just for that mreardon. thanks for the laugh.
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kalcario
Mar 23, 2004, 6:13 AM
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*It's tough being a hetorosexual in a sport climber's world and it's messing with his psyche.*
Don't pick on me because you took the easy road and joined all the other closeted gay men in the trad world...er, wait, you've been bouldering a lot lately, right? Congrats on finally coming out!
just kiddin mike
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drkodos
Mar 23, 2004, 7:47 AM
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In reply to: Climbers who frown or look down on another form, style, or type of climbing are gay.
No one is gayer then me.
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traddad
Mar 23, 2004, 1:47 PM
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OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”?
Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil.
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roughster
Mar 23, 2004, 2:07 PM
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In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil.
I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys.
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chizelz
Mar 23, 2004, 2:16 PM
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hats off to you traddad, well said! surely these articulate climbers can find a better word in their vocabulary. There should be a little smiley taking his hat off here X.
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fitzontherocks
Mar 23, 2004, 2:39 PM
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Props for Traddad (and btw: in your photo, would you call that a lieback or straight in?).
And referring to mreardon's signature about minorities climbing, how many gay climbers are out there? Is it the familiar 10%? I figure if you climb, you're cool. If you climb and you're out and proud, you're even cooler. Anyone care to venture a guess?
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rockprodigy
Mar 23, 2004, 2:50 PM
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How about a thread on cheese-dick homophobic punter crack climbers? Keep that $hit out of here!
The fact that you introduced this thread suggests to me that you're stuck in 5.10 and still think the leader should never fall.
I had to layback portions of Ruby's Cafe during my redpoint, am I "gay"?
If you want to be a bigot, and hang out with other bigots, go to church, not the crags.
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traddad
Mar 23, 2004, 2:55 PM
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It's a an off-hands splitter that I wish I could lay back.
And as to your other question, it probably reflects general demographics. More of an assumption than a guess.
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taualum23
Mar 23, 2004, 2:57 PM
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Nice traddad! "Desert corners are so Jewish." LOL. I know you were making a serious point, and one that I cannot possibly agree with more.
Really, when one uses the term "gay" to be a deragotory remark removed from the realm of actually referring to a person's sexual orientation, it shows them to be a trogloditic playground reject, not neccesarily a bigot.
Peace.
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oldsalt
Mar 23, 2004, 3:17 PM
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Some of my best friends are climbers. :wink:
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taualum23
Mar 23, 2004, 3:19 PM
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I'm a climber, but I'm very normal-acting.
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camhead
Mar 23, 2004, 3:24 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil. I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys.
yeah, and on the same subject, we should change the name of "Black Corner" at Battle of the Bulge. Way offensive. Anyway, all desert corners are ghey, don't climb them, just go crowd up kalcario's crags in California and you will be all right. Utah is not worth your precious time, don't go there.
Oh, and rockprodigy, isn't Ruby's Cafe like a 5.8 if you lay it back?
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taualum23
Mar 23, 2004, 3:27 PM
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cam head...the obvious problem with your (I hope sarcastic) response is that Black corner is, in reality, a black corner. I have never seen any desert corners of the same gender having sexual realtions.
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traddad
Mar 23, 2004, 3:36 PM
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To defuse this issue before it becomes a name calling contest, let me tell a story:
On my high school freshman track team there was a black sprinter by the name of Shadrack who was my relay partner and was quickly becoming a fast friend. Being young, unobservant and willfully ignorant, I went along with the fashion of the time and called all my male friends “boy” as a term of teasing derision. One day while practicing hand offs I called Shadrack “boy” and he immediately became quietly angry and walked to the other side of the track. A friend grabbed me and explained in no uncertain terms what I had just done. I was mortified. I was just kidding around. I didn’t mean to offend him. I jogged over and apologized immediately, but we never really had a chance to become good friends after that.
I screwed up and I still kick myself in the ass 33 years later. It’s not about being PC. It wasn’t about intent. It was all about me not thinking.
Intent should always be considered and some people just WANT to be offended, but if your intention is to not offend, then choose your words carefully.
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murf
Mar 23, 2004, 3:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil. I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys.
Yeah - "hate speech" is gay.
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 4:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil. I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys. Yeah - "hate speech" is gay.
You're gay for even saying that hate speech is gay.
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gunked
Mar 23, 2004, 4:31 PM
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Okay it's getting a little too "South Park" in here. :wink:
-Jason :lol:
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dirtineye
Mar 23, 2004, 4:53 PM
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In reply to: To defuse this issue before it becomes a name calling contest, let me tell a story: On my high school freshman track team there was a black sprinter by the name of Shadrack who was my relay partner and was quickly becoming a fast friend. Being young, unobservant and willfully ignorant, I went along with the fashion of the time and called all my male friends ?boy? as a term of teasing derision. One day while practicing hand offs I called Shadrack ?boy? and he immediately became quietly angry and walked to the other side of the track. A friend grabbed me and explained in no uncertain terms what I had just done. I was mortified. I was just kidding around. I didn?t mean to offend him. I jogged over and apologized immediately, but we never really had a chance to become good friends after that. I screwed up and I still kick myself in the ass 33 years later. It?s not about being PC. It wasn?t about intent. It was all about me not thinking. Intent should always be considered and some people just WANT to be offended, but if your intention is to not offend, then choose your words carefully.
YOu know, his reaction is more a reflection on him than on you man. I had the same sort of conversation wirh a bunch of black friends I used to play chess with, only the word was son. THey explained that they didn;t like that term, adn I explained that all my friend s at the time called each other son, or even boy, the way foghorn leghorn did, as in, "No NO NO boy you got that all wrong!" , adn, " Boy makes about as much sense as a chinese newspaper." My friends all understood it. Of course we were a bit older than highschool, adn the fact taht none of us tolerated racism from either side when directed at our little mixed race group played a part in the outcome.
taking PC BS to the extreme is jsut stupid and counter produtive, unless you go around looking and wanting to be offended, then it really helps, haha.
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murf
Mar 23, 2004, 6:09 PM
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In reply to: To defuse this issue before it becomes a name calling contest, let me tell a story: On my high school freshman track team there was a black sprinter by the name of Shadrack who was my relay partner and was quickly becoming a fast friend. Being young, unobservant and willfully ignorant, I went along with the fashion of the time and called all my male friends “boy” as a term of teasing derision. One day while practicing hand offs I called Shadrack “boy” and he immediately became quietly angry and walked to the other side of the track. A friend grabbed me and explained in no uncertain terms what I had just done. I was mortified. I was just kidding around. I didn’t mean to offend him. I jogged over and apologized immediately, but we never really had a chance to become good friends after that. I screwed up and I still kick myself in the ass 33 years later. It’s not about being PC. It wasn’t about intent. It was all about me not thinking. Intent should always be considered and some people just WANT to be offended, but if your intention is to not offend, then choose your words carefully.
The only thing gay-er than "My best friend is black" stories are "My best friend *could* have been black" stories.
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stellanole
Mar 23, 2004, 6:11 PM
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are you kidding me???
may i? thanks...
i opened this thread hoping to find an explanation for a new climbing term i was unaware of. no such luck. instead i find someone wanting to strike up a conversation about desert corners, using the word 'gay' obviously intended to express some degree of negativity.
man. how dissapointing. do we not have enough words in the english language that you have chosen one that could POTENTIALLY offend?
and please, lets not turn this into a PC debate...thats just a 'LAME' (hey now theres a GOOD WORD!) attempt to dodge the issue.
you obviously posted and used the word especially in your subject heading knowing you would stir the pot. good job! the fish are BITING!!!
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bellatoris
Mar 23, 2004, 6:43 PM
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if you lieback while he is jamming it in your are both gay..
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camhead
Mar 23, 2004, 6:43 PM
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hey, how many of the people arguing about terminology actually CLIMB desert corners?
speak up, bizzatchezzz.
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crotch
Mar 23, 2004, 6:46 PM
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In reply to: and please, lets not turn this into a PC debate...thats just a 'LAME' (hey now theres a GOOD WORD!) attempt to dodge the issue.
Great, now we're making fun of the infirm.
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vertical_reality
Mar 23, 2004, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: if you lieback while he is jamming it in your are both gay..
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Now thats funny.
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 7:29 PM
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In reply to: if you lieback while he is jamming it in your are both gay..
:D
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traddad
Mar 23, 2004, 7:33 PM
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You know….I’m just NOT going to feel bad about disliking the use of race/national origin/sexual orientation as terms of derision. I think such usage is reprehensible and is evidence of a shallow thought process and the lack of evolution of character. Call me PC, call me a SNAG, call me a bleeding heart liberal….I’m all of those, and proud of it. Just don’t expect me to let it go by without comment.
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artofclimbing
Mar 23, 2004, 8:24 PM
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i am very offended that you people are using the word 'gay' as an insult. i just dont believe that is right.
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Mar 23, 2004, 10:03 PM
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this website is gay, not that there's anything wrong with that
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reno
Mar 23, 2004, 10:17 PM
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Lest we all forget, the first definition of "gay" in the dictionary (well, in my Webster's, anyway) is "happy or joyful."
Now, in a contextual sense, I agree with those that have expressed dissent: using the term "gay" to be derogatory as associated with homosexuality, is just plain wrong.
There are millions of words in the English language, several of which would have conveyed the same inteded meaning as the original post, but not nearly as offensive to people.
Enhance your vocabulary. It will do wonders for your future.
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tomchaps
Mar 23, 2004, 10:25 PM
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Reading over the first post, that started all this:
"His arguement is that corners are a good bit easier laying the sucka back, if you climb it straight in, it's harder. To have 2 rating for a route in his opinion is gay, but to give it the lieback rating means that it would be sandbagged if you climbed it straight in."
I love this idea, and think we should all adopt it. Imagine, that nice 5.10 hand crack is also a 5.13, if you're not using hand jams. I can just hear it now, at the crags...
"What's that guy on?"
"It's a 5.10, but his footwork sucks, so we figure it's 5.12 at least."
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mreardon
Mar 23, 2004, 11:12 PM
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In reply to: Lest we all forget, the first definition of "gay" in the dictionary (well, in my Webster's, anyway) is "happy or joyful." Now, in a contextual sense, I agree with those that have expressed dissent: using the term "gay" to be derogatory as associated with homosexuality, is just plain wrong. There are millions of words in the English language, several of which would have conveyed the same inteded meaning as the original post, but not nearly as offensive to people. Enhance your vocabulary. It will do wonders for your future.
Definitions are gay. :D
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angry
Mar 23, 2004, 11:43 PM
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Kalcario, where do you live? If it is in CO, UT or somewhere near it, PM me and we'll climb cracks. I need you to show me how easy they are. I got a feeling you are a pretty worthless "bone wedger". Yes I am calling YOU out. Talk about those mired in 5.10
To all you PC nerds, I posted the word gay simply because that was the word used in the conversation. He never used the word lame, retarded, jewish, black, mormon, carpet-muncher, midget, or dentist. Had he used these terms, that is what I would have posted.
I suggest all you dweebs get over it. Me and my hetero climbing partner were laughing hysterically during most of this "arguement". Is this something that really should be discussed when sober? I think not.
My sig applies to everyone - read it, learn it, know it, believe it.
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bellatoris
Mar 24, 2004, 12:06 AM
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"My sig applies to everyone - read it, learn it, know it, believe it.
_________________
I am cooler than you, and I can prove it!!!"
so you are saying that gay people are cooler than non gays.....i guess i am pretty warm....not that i have a problem with cool people like you.
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kalcario
Mar 24, 2004, 12:22 AM
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*Kalcario, where do you live? If it is in CO, UT or somewhere near it, PM me and we'll climb cracks. I need you to show me how easy they are. I got a feeling you are a pretty worthless "bone wedger". Yes I am calling YOU out. Talk about those mired in 5.10*
Sorry-I got nothing to prove. My bone wedging tolerance was better back in the 80's when I lived and worked in YoValley. Used to do stuff like Astroman and the Rostrum, and show up for work the same day at 4:00, and wonder why I felt like I had'nt done anything. Now I know. Because that stuff is LIGHT. It takes less than zero effort to hang off a hand jam. There is no such thing as a 5.11 handcrack. You get a hand jam or a fingerlock on a sport climb and it knocks like 2 letter grades off the rating. It's the closest thing to a no-hands rest without actually letting go. A hands-off double kneebar burns more calories than a 2" hand jam. A 2" hand jam, you could pass out, go into a coma-and weeks later you would still be hanging there from your wedged appendage like a human fixed nut. They'd have to cut your hand off to rescue you, like Fingon did to Maedhros on the walls of Thangorodrim. Oh, uh, whoops...wrong user group.
Not that I'm denigrating crack climbing itself, mind you. I would'nt trade all the experiences I had in Yosemite for anything. It's just that compared to sport climbing IT SUCKS ASS.
I remember reading an interview with desert crack master Steve Hong in R&I years ago. He basically said that the climbing he had to do on his hard FA's at Indian Creek was "trivial" compared to the stuff he was doing in Rifle at the time. The bottom line is, it's just not steep enough, the movement is repetitive and monotonous, and you feel silly dicking around wiggling in pieces of metal when you could be actually pulling.
I will admit though that few things in the climbing world are as inspiring as a crack that just happens to be the same size as your hands and feet soaring up an otherwise blank wall. The aesthetics are definitely there.
It just hurts more than jug hauling.
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timstich
Mar 24, 2004, 2:29 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: OK, I’ll step up. The use of the word gay as a derogatory term just bugs the heck out of me. Would any of you say “desert corners are so Jewish” or “sport climbers are a bunch of spicks”? Hey, even if you believe that sexual orientations other than hetero are wrong, you should be at least civil. I'd agree with that. Lets watch the "hate speech" guys. Yeah - "hate speech" is gay. You're gay for even saying that hate speech is gay.
G is gay. Gay gie goo
Gay gie giggy go gee gie goo
Giggy gie go gee giggy gie giggy gee gie goo.
-Forbidden Zone
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tahoe_rock_master
Mar 24, 2004, 2:32 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Got in this discussion in the desert this weekend. I like the corners, my partner however states emphatically that they are all gay. Well, I was jamming up a cracked dihedral the other day, and sure enough, it grabbed a hold of my caulk and wouldn't let go. Therefore, I have to agree with your friend. Or at least they're bi-curious.
Couldn't stop laughing! Funny as hell
Matt
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noshoesnoshirt
Mar 24, 2004, 2:35 AM
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In reply to: G is gay. Gay gie goo Gay gie giggy go gee gie goo Giggy gie go gee giggy gie giggy gee gie goo. -Forbidden Zone
holy smokes, i thought i was only one who'd ever seen that film.
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wallwombat
Mar 28, 2004, 1:15 AM
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In reply to: .......... back when single pitch trad climbing was still relevant and non-boring. .
That,s news to me. Single pitch trad climbing is my main gig. Now I feeling boring and irrelevant. :cry:
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timstich
Mar 28, 2004, 3:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: .......... back when single pitch trad climbing was still relevant and non-boring. . That,s news to me. Single pitch trad climbing is my main gig. Now I feeling boring and irrelevant. :cry:
Ha ha ha. I'll just settle for irrelevant.
But what kalcario described makes sense in a way. Once you master crack climbing, it no longer challenges you, or at least in his case. Face climbing still offers a challenge, which meant migrating to sport. Sport tends to get slammed by all of the traddies, so he is just slamming back.
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wallwombat
Mar 29, 2004, 12:57 AM
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In Australia, a whole lot of quality face climbs can easily be naturally protected.
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yanqui
Apr 1, 2004, 6:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: G is gay. Gay gie goo Gay gie giggy go gee gie goo Giggy gie go gee giggy gie giggy gee gie goo. -Forbidden Zone holy smokes, i thought i was only one who'd ever seen that film.
Oingo Boingo kicked ass
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yanqui
Apr 1, 2004, 6:47 PM
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A strange 'small world' story about the Forbidden Zone.
If I remember correctly (which isn't always the case), I first saw this flick on video about 20 years ago in Spokane with this hotshot boulderer (erer...) from California who had come to Spokane, I think for work related reasons. Anyways, it was pretty cool to have another boulderer (erer...) around, because we were a rare and unconventional breed back then. So we did some bouldering, and all that.
And now it's 20 years later and here I am wasting my time messing around this place, and guess what? That's right: that boulderer (erer...) is none other than Curt, of RC.COM. fame. Small world, huh?
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couloir
Apr 1, 2004, 7:04 PM
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"Not that I'm denigrating crack climbing itself, mind you. I would'nt trade all the experiences I had in Yosemite for anything. It's just that compared to sport climbing IT SUCKS ASS."
Wow...Maybe you should try drinking more. It may put your life back in perspective. Or maybe you should just put yourself out of misery.
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tim
Apr 1, 2004, 7:15 PM
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In reply to: And now it's 20 years later and here I am wasting my time messing around this place, and guess what? That's right: that boulderer (erer...) is none other than Curt, of RC.COM. fame. Small world, huh?
Fame? On rc.com? God help us all.
I am convinced (more and more) that the population of people who stick with climbing and try all the various types (trad, sport, alpine, ice, aid) is actually not that huge. I've traveled a lot and run into lots of climbers, and I see a lot of the same people everywhere. (not just Boulderites, either ;-)) Maybe I'm full of shit, but what you pointed out above is something that I have become increasingly confident of -- it really is a small world for climbers.
I should probably stop waking people up at 4:30AM, it will eventually come back to haunt me ;-)
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petsfed
Apr 1, 2004, 7:19 PM
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Kal, I respect your position, but this thread is not how crack climbing is boring, its about whether or not nitpicking another person's style on a climb is valid. See if I bagged on you for scoring a double kneebar rest (when you could, in fact, score a double kneebar rest, likely making the climb easier) it would be no different. fshizzle's partner is just pissed that he's working harder than he needs to climb the grade. Which is why, as always, grades are just decorations on crack climbs, especially desert crack climbs.
And maybe I like bore myself fiddling with widgets.
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