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tripperjm
Apr 2, 2004, 8:05 AM
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A good friend and local socal climber, Scott Halvenson was one of the American subcontractors, ambushed, killed and draged thru the streets of Fallujah Iraq on Wednesday. My heart goes out to his two young children and their mother Trishia. Sleep well my friend. I will not forget you.
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overlord
Apr 2, 2004, 8:15 AM
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RIP.
war is a sad sad thing.
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thewyseclimber
Apr 2, 2004, 8:28 AM
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Well put.
If only G. Bush would have allowed other contractors besides the Americans, perhaps we could have avoided this terrible and most unfortunate situation. Thank Dubya and his cabinet for the deaths of our friends.
And remember to pray for the Iraqis as well as for the families of those Americans who lose their lives...
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tyify
Apr 2, 2004, 8:48 AM
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This is why we need to leave...and soon. In honor of your friend I hope a Somalia type uprising will occur! Stop the killing..all it does is hurt...
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rrrADAM
Apr 2, 2004, 12:38 PM
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Let's not turn this into a political debate, as it doesn't show the respect due the person mentioned in this thread.
My sympathies to the family and friends.
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chizelz
Apr 2, 2004, 1:10 PM
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My deepest sympathies to family and friends, may his soul rest in peace.
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zozo
Apr 2, 2004, 1:12 PM
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In reply to: Let's not turn this into a political debate, as it doesn't show the respect due the person mentioned in this thread. My sympathies to the family and friends.
Truth, sorry to hear of the loss of your friend.
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gajeff420
Apr 2, 2004, 1:18 PM
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My deepest sympathies for your friend and his family. War is hell.
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timstich
Apr 2, 2004, 1:38 PM
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In reply to: Let's not turn this into a political debate, as it doesn't show the respect due the person mentioned in this thread. My sympathies to the family and friends.
Agreed.
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alorama
Apr 2, 2004, 1:49 PM
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All the best to Scott and his family. It takes a brave man to put his life on the line when it is just as easy to walk away. All the best to the rest of the American contractors risking their lives for what they believe in.
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nnichols
Apr 2, 2004, 1:55 PM
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In reply to: Let's not turn this into a political debate, as it doesn't show the respect due the person mentioned in this thread. My sympathies to the family and friends.
ditto - thoughts and prayers to the friends and family
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j_ung
Apr 2, 2004, 2:38 PM
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My thoughts are likwise with you and his family. I hope you all find peace.
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tripperjm
Apr 2, 2004, 4:02 PM
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In reply to: The charred remains of the four Americans were dragged through the streets for hours after insurgents ambushed their vehicles. Two of the corpses were hung from a bridge as people beat them with shoes and a pole. Iraqi police eventually collected their remains at the request of American troops. |
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iclimbtoo
Apr 2, 2004, 4:07 PM
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Wow...My thoughts and prayers are with you and his family. :(
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curt
Apr 2, 2004, 4:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The charred remains of the four Americans were dragged through the streets for hours after insurgents ambushed their vehicles. Two of the corpses were hung from a bridge as people beat them with shoes and a pole. Iraqi police eventually collected their remains at the request of American troops.
I feel so sorry for those guys and also for their friends and families. What a horrible event. I am also absolutely outraged by the acts perpetrated by the assailants but (as Adam suggested) those comments are best expressed elsewhere, so I will do that.
Curt
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ontario_guide
Apr 2, 2004, 4:26 PM
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There was a picture of one of the American's hanging from the bridge on the front page of one of our national newspapers yesterday. It sickened me then and it's haunted me since then. You'd think that humanity would have learned by now. :cry:
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kissthemtnairwebreathe
Apr 2, 2004, 4:40 PM
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good point... perhaps original post was tacky (truth hurts???) Therefore, self-censored portion of comment re: making asstons of money to appease the pc crowd.
Condolences to all.
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curt
Apr 2, 2004, 4:47 PM
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Thanks.
Curt
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traddad
Apr 2, 2004, 4:59 PM
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My condolances.
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mrmons
Apr 2, 2004, 5:21 PM
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I am deeply sorry for your loss. May he rest in peace.
Mr. Mons
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rrrADAM
Apr 2, 2004, 5:28 PM
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Curt, even if he does, you quoted his text, and he can't edit that. :?
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mcumbrae
Apr 2, 2004, 5:39 PM
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I´m sorry it happened, but i´m more concerned for his relatives and friends than for him... he knew the odds as well as the pros and cons and decided to go... he gambled and lost, knowing what he was getting into... this shows once more that there are only losers in a war
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curt
Apr 2, 2004, 5:55 PM
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In reply to: Curt, even if he does, you quoted his text, and he can't edit that. :?
I know Adam, I've been watching the thread.
Curt
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fenix83
Moderator
Apr 2, 2004, 6:19 PM
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My depest ocndolences for your loss, I know only too well what it feels to loose a loved one to a war. I have friends from Blackwater and Dynacorp, as well as in the Corps (I was rejected on medical grounds...) Prayers alson for all the brave men and women who are still out there. Stay safe, and may they come home swiftly and safely.
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell
"All that is necesarry for the triumpth of evil, is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
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ginerbiner
Apr 2, 2004, 6:53 PM
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Oh, I'm so sorry. My prayers are with all those who knew and loved him. A loss for us all.
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reno
Apr 3, 2004, 6:50 PM
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In reply to: Let's not turn this into a political debate, as it doesn't show the respect due the person mentioned in this thread. My sympathies to the family and friends.
Very well said, Adam... thanks for keeping us on track.
I extend my sympathy to the family of Scott. May they find strength to make it through this terrible tragedy.
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rvega
Apr 3, 2004, 7:34 PM
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I mistakenly started another thread on this. But I'll post the link here as well. It has a nice picture of Scott rock climbing.
www.nytimes.com/2004/04/03/national/03VICT.html
And I send my tears and thoughts of healing to the family.
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harrisha
Apr 3, 2004, 8:13 PM
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My concolences and thanks. I don't want to hijack this into a political thread but someone stated earlier that we need o pull out now. We can't pull out untill the job we started is finished or elso the 500+ soldiers and and all the civilians who have died in Iraq have died in vain. If we pull out now we leave a country in a state of anarchy and Iraq won't be any better off. No won wins at war.
My thanks to his family for their sacrifice to help in making this world better for all of us.
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ratstar
Apr 3, 2004, 8:15 PM
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In reply to: Let's not turn this into a political debate, as it doesn't show the respect due the person mentioned in this thread. My sympathies to the family and friends.
Spoken ever so true. That doesnt belong here.
My sympathies.
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hawaii_climbing_guy
Apr 3, 2004, 10:38 PM
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In reply to: This is why we need to leave...and soon. In honor of your friend I hope a Somalia type uprising will occur! Stop the killing..all it does is hurt... |
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tempestwind
Apr 3, 2004, 10:46 PM
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My Heart and My Tears to his family.
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beaner_says_hi
Apr 3, 2004, 11:03 PM
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In reply to: Let's not turn this into a political debate, as it doesn't show the respect due the person mentioned in this thread. My sympathies to the family and friends.
I was thinking the same.
I'm very sorry for your loss and for the families impacted by this heinous act. My heart goes out to you.
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granitegod
Apr 3, 2004, 11:14 PM
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An absolutely mind-bogglingly senseless and barbaric act. The horror....
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meataxe
Apr 4, 2004, 1:10 AM
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My condolences on this tragic loss.
And to clear up what may be a misconception for some...
In reply to: If only G. Bush would have allowed other contractors besides the Americans, perhaps we could have avoided this terrible and most unfortunate situation. Thank Dubya and his cabinet for the deaths of our friends.
Not only Americans and other alliance countries are involved in the contracting. You may remember that Canada decided to skip this one...
http://www.canada.com/...f1-bc58-92c0f6198796
He may not be the last Canadian to be killed in the ongoing conflict.
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dbtex
Apr 4, 2004, 2:12 AM
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Ii'm sorry for your loss. May peace come to you and those who will miss him. Most especially his children and wife...most especially them.
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dredsovrn
Apr 4, 2004, 2:13 AM
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Sorry to hear that. Tragic.
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climbtothebeet
Apr 4, 2004, 2:40 AM
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oh man, thats hard core, ill pray for ya.
its so easy for us to climb a wall, risking our life for enjoyment. but, what this guy did, risking it not for his enjoyment, but MY safety. hes there because i can't. may he rest in peace, and find heaven beutiful. God bless
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addiroids
Apr 4, 2004, 3:02 AM
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Dude, I'm sorry to hear that. Those people over there truely hate America.
By the way, how many Americans were ambushed and dragged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after we finished the war over there? Huh...none. Just a suggestion. I'm sure the mid east post A-bomb would make a great retirement community for the millions of baby boomers whose loving parents ridded the world of Hitler and who are retiring now.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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macherry
Apr 4, 2004, 3:33 AM
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my condolences to the family and friends. It is terrible indeed. My spouse had been considering a contracting job in Iraq through an engineering firm. Something like this sure hits close to home.
Political commentary aside, no one wants to see such atrocities! Very sad.
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tim
Apr 4, 2004, 3:36 AM
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I hope the following does not come across as too 'political'. However, I believe that the families of the four men slain in Fallujah deserve a little better than the sort of mindless pablum I just read. All of these men were distinguished soldiers with decorated careers and knew they were accepting a hazardous task. Nothing, however, can excuse the subhuman acts that were perpetuated upon them, and our moral outrage at the disgusting cowards who participated is inevitable. Nonetheless, your flippant comments are scarcely more impressive than the deeds of the animals in Fallujah...
In reply to: By the way, how many Americans were ambushed and dragged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after we finished the war over there? Huh...none. Just a suggestion. I'm sure the mid east post A-bomb would make a great retirement community for the millions of baby boomers whose loving parents ridded the world of Hitler and who are retiring now.
My god, I hope that's a troll. (Everyone knows that a strip mall parking lot goes there!)
What a delightful idea -- nuke everyone that annoys us. Perhaps we should give the all-clear to India, Pakistan, North Korea, and Iran regarding this. One minor problem -- if we drop a nuke on everyone who does something naughty out of sheer powerlessness, one will eventually be dropped on us (and sooner rather than later). Pre-emptive conflicts are not a sustainable doctrine; if it's ok for the US to attack another nation unprovoked (and with the gravest of weapons), then 9-11-2001 was just another day, and what Al Qaeda did was justified under our own foreign policies (as they pre-emptively attacked the USA in order to punish the women and children who were oppressing Palestine et al). Furthermore, what exactly were we doing over there if nukes are acceptable? Yeah...
Will Fallujah be paved? Probably, even if it's just "by accident". Are Iraqi civilian casualties (in their homes and businesses) somehow more acceptable than overseas American casualties? If you believe so, does that make you a racist, or just a jingoist?
Scott Helvenston, Jerry Zovko, Michael Teague, and Wesley Batalona did not deserve this -- nothing can excuse the actions of the townspeople who participated in these acts of barbarousness. Islam does not pardon them and neither should the US. HOWEVER, it would be no less an atrocity for the US to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians than it was for sub-human Iraqi street thugs to murder and mutilate Scott and his coworkers. Whether by dropping daisy cutters on residential areas of Fallujah, or your (hopefully tongue-in-cheek) suggestion to 'nuke the bastards', the responsibility of a civilized nation is to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties even as the fog of war envelops them. The Japanese, you may recall, attacked the United States, on American soil -- they brought their losses upon themselves. Post-reconstruction Iraq (even Fallujah) is in no position to invade and poses no such threat. If it's OK in your book to bomb the shit out of civilians pre-emptively, it logically follows that what happened to these men was no big deal. I have trouble with that statement... so I'm going to suggest an alternative.
The Blackwater company is placing donations to the families of the four security consultants in a documented trust with notes kept on the declared purpose of the donations. If you would like to help support their families, you may mail checks to:
In reply to: Memorial Fund PO Box 159 Moyock, NC 27958 Please Make checks Payable to: Memorial Fund Please no cash contributions.
My condolences to Scott's family, he seemed like a man who truly enjoyed life. One suspects that none of the thugs who committed these disgraceful acts will ever know such happiness, and rightly so. Nor should they know the satisfaction of achieving any political goals from their actions, but rather the inexorable and steady hand of justice.
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socalclimber
Apr 4, 2004, 4:05 AM
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Boy, I don't even know what to say. Some people are just incapable of accepting that someone is hurting at the loss of a loved one. So, some people just have to pop in with their ever narrowing political views of the universe. Who cares what you think politicaly.
Here's something novel, the person who started this thread is grieving, so, how about supporting them without all the political nonsense? Here's another novel idea:
I'M REALLY SORRY YOU LOST YOUR FRIEND. MY THOUGHTS ARE WITH YOU AND HIS FAMILY.
Not real complicated is it?
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kalcario
Apr 4, 2004, 4:05 AM
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* HOWEVER, it would be no less an atrocity for the US to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians than it was for sub-human Iraqi street thugs to murder and mutilate Scott and his coworkers.*
You mean, it *is* no less an atrocity...
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addiroids
Apr 4, 2004, 4:12 AM
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Uhh yeah dude, I was just joking. I am truely sorry for tripper's loss, and I enjoy having all the retirees here in Palm Springs. They have a lot of money and need personal training.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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sharpender
Apr 4, 2004, 4:23 AM
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As much as I don't like Dubya and want him the hell out of dodge for putting our people in harms way, not to mention the deaths of 6,000 (or is it 9,000) Iraqi civilians, I thank (blame) the psycho terrorists for the deaths of these men. Killing people who are guarding food that will feed the children of Iraq? War is not sad. War is hell. First attributed to General Sherman after he saw what he had done to the South.
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andypro
Apr 4, 2004, 5:06 AM
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I'm so glad someone else (tim) feels the same as I do. It's getting to be a rare day when one can cross someone with compassion instead of hatred in a situation like this.
It's also sad that everyone is blaming the Iraqi's. They didn't do it. The very very small number of resistance still aligned with the bath and mujahadin (my appologies if tha'ts spelled wrong) among many other now insurgant groups are to blame. As well, it's certainly not Islam that deserves blame either. It's one of the most peaceful religions on this planet if practiced properly. You only hear on the news about those who dont, however.
Someone mentioned that, basically, these guys "knew what they were getting in to". Tha'ts true, but also rather sharp at the same time. The most touching thing is that they DID know what they could be walking in to, yet they went anyways...because they wanted to help. Companies make money, not the people. Especially if they knew what it was like over there, we have to commend, honor, and cherish thier commitment to the Iraqi people because they went anyways. That's the saddest part of all...they only wanted to help :cry:
Edit to say: I'd like to clarify what I meant with my statement of "It's also sad that everyone is blaming the Iraqi's." I meant as a whole from what I see in the US, not on RC.com.
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thewyseclimber
Apr 5, 2004, 6:18 AM
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To everyone it may concern, and especially to tripperjm, who made the original post:
I apologize for being the first to spout my political viewpoints on this website, especially in regards to a situation as serious and personal as this. As much as I disagree with the Iraqi conflict, this was no place to make this opinion known, and I failed to take into account the feelings and situations of those people who were directly involved. My prayers, apologies, and condolences are extended to the families and friends of those that were killed. May God grant us the peace we all long for so dearly...
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jodymc
Apr 9, 2004, 4:37 PM
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My hearts go out to you and all his friends and family. He is yet another person that makes our country great. God Bless Yet Another Hero!
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bellatoris
Apr 9, 2004, 5:45 PM
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Jack, my condolences to you and his family.
Ascanio
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climbersoze
Apr 9, 2004, 6:17 PM
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For anyone from the Hampton Roads area -
Rock Bottom Grill (down off 23rd street at the Va Beach oceanfront) is having a benefit tonight for the families of the guys that were killed in Iraq.
The contractors hung out at the bar the week before heading over to Iraq, and it hit the owner (a man I know) pretty hard, so he wanted to do something for the families.
Again - its Rock Bottom Grill located on Atlantic Ave. between 23rd and 24th street at the Virginia Beach oceanfront.
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gumbobob
Apr 9, 2004, 6:37 PM
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my condolences to you and his family. My brother was in Iraq until his unti redeployed (and i shall be headed over there after graduation)--it was scary for me and my whole family. I cannot imagine how hard it was for the family of the recently deceased to hear the news...i am terribly sorry for you.
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cratercreator
Apr 9, 2004, 7:24 PM
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May these men Rest In Peace.
I will die in debt to the men who went before me.
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indigo_nite
Apr 9, 2004, 10:04 PM
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I figured this was a climbing accident initially.
well, my heart is heavy to hear the news. my condolences. rip.
not to hijack but I wish we'd never gone there in the first place.
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micahmcguire
Apr 19, 2004, 5:54 PM
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I'm terribly sorry. Blind hatred is so disgusting.
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leinosaur
Apr 19, 2004, 6:46 PM
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In reply to: I apologize for being the first to spout my political viewpoints ...
Condolences to family, and props to thewyseclimber for the apology - that takes some cojones as well.
There's lively debate along those lines over in Community, all the time. Dig it!
leinosaur
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bdplayer
Apr 22, 2006, 4:28 PM
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Sleep well, Scott. We'll miss you.
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lenny7247
Apr 22, 2006, 4:37 PM
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I am so sorry for all your loses
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buddha_monkee
Apr 22, 2006, 6:02 PM
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Lets put politics aside for a moment folks, huh? We got a climber here who is hurtin' inside. Lets give him a little support.
I'm sorry you lost your friend. You and his kids and his mother are in my thoughts and prayers. The next time I'm on the rock, I'll keep him in mind.
Maybe you could go do a climb he liked. I bet he would like that.
God bless.
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porcelainsunset
Apr 22, 2006, 7:02 PM
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Scott Halvenson, whoever you are, I am shure that you are greatly missed by your family, friends, and the climbing community. RIP, and please know that the next figure eight I tie is in your honnor, and I will be sure to back it up.
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deltav
Apr 22, 2006, 7:07 PM
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My deepest sympathies
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weschrist
Apr 22, 2006, 7:28 PM
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First off, condolences. The loss sucks for those who knew him. I know how it is to loose the ones you love and I am truly sorry to hear about your loss.
But secondly, I must say, what is the point in ignoring the situation behind the tragic event? Personally I would be pissed if I died in that situation and nobody I knew stood up and took note of WTF happened and WHY, and tried to prevent it from happening to others.
People die every day from cancer, car accidents, etc etc and as a result there is more awareness of proper diet and healthy living, advances in medicine and automobile safety, etc.
I suggest we stop turning a blind eye simply because the situation is "political" and start trying to correct the situation. Personally, I'm sick of people thinking they have no choice... like a bunch of junkies, addicted to the policies of fear and rhetoric, thinking they have no choice, no power, no way to affect the situation... so they simply sit back and take another hit. WEAK.
Do something! Either way, whatever it is, do something YOU FEEL will positively affect the situation. Damn!
http://www.marklundholm.com/...t/pics/SoapBoxSm.jpg
Okay, I'm done... getting off now.
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the_mitt
Apr 22, 2006, 8:11 PM
Post #62 of 65
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Registered: Jan 17, 2006
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(This post was edited by the_mitt on Nov 19, 2006, 6:43 PM)
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billcoe_
Apr 24, 2006, 7:25 PM
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
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Nice post Weschrist.
I'd like to add that in the 2 years since this was posted, there have been many many more sad stories about folks like Scott. I read of a local boy who just got blasted by a roadside bomb in Faluja recently. I'm sure his family and friends will not forget him, nor will Scotts.
In 2004, when this thread was first posted, G.W. Bush was speaking to the public explaining that we MAY have to stay in Iraq until 2006.
My friends, that time is now.
Maintaining secure oil supplies appeared to be the clear real reason behind the stated false reason why we invaded originally. According to the Pentagon, our efforts have resulted in about 30,000 people killed so far, some of our young men, and a goodly amount of Iraqi women and children with a few "terrorists" who are trying to get us out of their country.
Bush has finally clued in to the fact that imported oil weakens us militarily and politically. Something which had been clear to many a long time before his election. Bush has repeated that point in several recent speeches, and has stated a goal of eliminating imported oil in the US within 25 years. Oh, we are going to pump more he says, drill more, and try a few other things. Yet here we are, years down the road, and no politician has yet to utter the word "conservation".
Please do not think I am anti-war. Not the case. We needed the war to secure our strategic oil supplies: which has been or is close to being: accomplished. Yet many have paid the ultimate price for that. I see large Suburbans, Duroangos and Expeditions getting 12-14 MPG commuting with 1 person in it all day long. However, in my opinion, no one should be dying so that we can unnecessarily sit on our fat asses in huge vehicles that suck gas. Yet that is EXACTLY what is happening.
And yet still many drive the big SUV's and huge gas guzzlers. As if it doesn't matter at all, as if their personal choices do not affect the security of our country or any others.
And yet still our young people and many Iraqis innocents continue to die.....pretty sad all the way around and on many levels for many people of several nationalities too.
Exxon and Chevron have had huge record profits during this period of uncertainty.
So drink a beer to our fallen comrades tonight and take a moment to silently reflect on the price they are paying and why it is being paid.
Finish the night with a prayer for our sons and daughters upstairs playing Xbox who are yet to serve, and yet to fall. I will say one for my 15 year old son as well. AND IF YOU BUY A HUGE VEHICLE WHICH GETS F*ED UP LOW MPG, REMEMBER THAT THERE IS A PRICE TO BE PAID BEYOND THAT WHICH YOU ARE CONFRONTING AT YOUR LOCAL PUMP.
May it be your son which pays that price, and not mine. It may be too late for those in the past, like Scott, but not for the potential thousands from here on out.....into 2007, 2008, 2009 etc.
RIP Scott. I mean no offense to anyone here, but to those who postulate that we shouldn't be examining the political reasons why people are dying, but blindly support this poorly executed endeavor which has significantly hurt our standing in the eyes of the entire rest of the world, I am at disagreement with.
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sidepull
Apr 24, 2006, 8:23 PM
Post #64 of 65
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Registered: Sep 11, 2001
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In reply to: I mean no offense to anyone here, but to those who postulate that we shoulnd't be examining the political reasons why people are dying, I am at disagreement with.
Billcoe, I agree with everything in your post. Similarly, I doubt anyone here wants to deter political debate. However the point of this thread is to recognize a fallen climber and pay respects to that person's memory. Political debate can and should be handled elsewhere, not because the death isn't attached to the situation or that we're supposed to repress our thoughts about it but because in discussing and debating the situation we're very likely to to misrepresent and/or use the deceased sacrifice in an inappropriate way. As much as I am distraught about our involvement in Iraq, I am equally angered by politicos and individuals in the media malappropriating people's lives in an attempt to gain political ground in a war of polarized propaganda. Let's not allow this thread to devolve into a similar type of discourse.
Thanks.
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kpb
Apr 28, 2006, 3:35 AM
Post #65 of 65
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Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 55
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Fair skies and following seas, Scott. RIP
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