This link _should_ take you their.
http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=204

He uses the brake hand plam down, and feeds & slips, using the guide hand to manage the friction.

What's it called?

go the petzl.com and click on the reverso product under descenders. Watch the video via the link in the lower left. Skip to about 1/8 to 1/4 in the video where a guy is belaying a girl in what seems to be the 2001 space oddyssey station.

This link _should_ take you their.
http://en.petzl.com/...Produits?Produit=204

He uses the brake hand plam down, and feeds & slips, using the guide hand to manage the friction.

What's it called?

thanks in advance

what's up with the comments? I just wanted to know if that "style" had a particular name or not. I'm asking honestly, and have searched the forums for a couple days before asking the question in order not to repost old questions, to the best of my ability at least.

This IS an old question, and one that has started massive flame wars on this site. That's why there are so many comments. Look for threads discussing "palm up" versus "palm down" belay styles, and you will see what I mean.

I tried to start a thread to discuss various belay styles in the past, and by already realizing that the topic starts massive flames, I actually ended up making the flames even worse when I tried to keep the thread from going down that road. A lesson learned in RC.com 'etiquette'.

that chick IS hot. I didn't notice anything else.

I think that most french people belay palm down. Could we call it French Style?

I kinda felt those flame wars were about which was better than the other, which I didn't think my question gets into.

I'm inferring from your post that it's called the "palms down" method.

that chick IS hot. I didn't notice anything else.

Heh.

I noticed the guy uses hand over hand for lowering. Personally I think this is not ideal. I just keep both hands on the rope and shuffle the rope through.

Try keeping both hands on the brake side of the rope, and just letting the rope slide through your hands without shuffling. Your partner will appreciate the smoother ride, and you'll be putting less stress on the anchor, a possible consideration in, say, a bail situation.

Jay

To further elaborate on my style. I don't do a jerky shuffle. It's a modified sliding shuffle. I would rather not let the rope just slide through, I would rather go a little slower and have more control, and more time to see if there are any kinks headed my way.

Believe it or not, you have more control by letting the rope slide through your hands than you do by shuffling. Either way, you can stop the climber instantaneously, but by letting the rope slide through, you don't jerk the climber at all (not a little, not a modified amount, but not at all), and you can vary the speed to suit the situation.

Jay

I taught the same method I use to my brother and I don't feel any jerking at all as the climber.

What methods have you used to determine which gives you more control? Not trying to give you a hard time, I'm curious.

I've probably used every method of belaying and lowering ever devised, other than the foot belay. However, I can prove that you have more control over lowering when you let rope slide through the device than by shuffling you hands in two steps:

1. You can stop your partner instantly whether you let rope slide through your hands or shuffle them.

2. You can lower you partner as fast or as slow as you want if you let rope slide through your hands, but when shuffling your hands, your lowering speed is limited by the speed at which you can shuffle your hands back and forth.

Therefore, you have more control over lowering when you let rope slide through your hands.

Jay

I see. It's a semantic difference then. My definition of control didn't include speed, just the ability to lock off and safely lower the climber.

Lowering faster than I can shuffle is not something I was interested in doing.

You should be interested in lowering both faster and more smoothly than you can by shuffling your hands. In general, your partners will appreciated not having to spend so much time sitting in their harness, and getting (even a "modified") jerky lower. And in an emergency, the ability to lower fast (and smooth) can be crucial.
Jay

I am fully capable of speedily and safely lowering a climber with a sliding or shuffling method in a situation that requires it.

I think that most french people belay palm down. Could we call it French Style?

it's japanese - it's called the "friendly friction happy hands plams down" method. it works!

No, actually, you're not, unless you have bionic arms, or something.

Jay

When a local climber dropped a large rock onto his 2-year-old daughter's head from 80 feet up a few years ago, it is good that it wasn't you who was belaying him.

Completely uncalled for. Who are you to judge me and my belaying capabilities based on a short discussion about style on a web forum.

Why this has anything to do with belaying style is beyond me.

What is so hard to understand? You claimed that you can lower as fast as necessary in any situation by lowering hand over hand, a method that is clearly slower than letting rope through your hands. I gave an example of an actual accident where lowering with the maximum possible safe speed was essential. A belayer lowering the injured kid's dad by letting rope slide through the device could get him down the necessary 80 feet in a few seconds. Shuffling your hands back and forth like a gym-trained n00b would take many times longer, an unacceptable delay in a possible life-or-death situation.

Jay

You left out some context and assumed I would know exactly what was going on.

If there were other people around to handle the injured kid than the belay style would have been moot.

Ready for this one? This is the third time. I repeat. I do not use the hand over hand method.

But if you want to continue your straw man argument, be my guest.

Apparently you didn't notice, but I also said I am fully capable of using the sliding method to quickly lower a climber if the situation requires it.

I know you don't. You shuffle your hands back and forth. Duh.

I'm not making a strawman argument.

I'm telling you that shuffling your hands back and forth to lower someone is unnecessary for safety, and is slow and jerky, with no compensating benefit. Instead of saying, "ok, I'll try the other way next time out and see if you're right," you just throw up a stone wall, and insist that shuffling is fast and smooth "enough."

You kept attacking me on the hand over hand method when I was against it as well...

What is so hard to understand? You claimed that you can lower as fast as necessary in any situation by lowering hand over hand, a method that is clearly slower than letting rope through your hands.

It would be where you said:

I can assure you that if it was your child bleeding from a head wound of unknown seriousness, you would not think the speed at which your belayer could get you down would be moot.

How'd that turn out, by the way?

I think that most french people belay palm down. Could we call it French Style?

I belay palm down when lead belaying, which to me is easier and safer. It was the way I was taught. I only use palm up when toprope belaying or second belay.

Palm up versus palm down makes no difference whatsoever. It's all about where your hand is with respect to separating the ropes (assuming an ATC-like device is used) when a fall occurs. If the belayer can efficiently "lock-off" the device, that's all that matters.

Curt

What's a bit unusual, though, is the way slack is taken in. Still, this method is pretty common when "adjusting", or taking in very small amounts of slack. Frankly, it doesn't even work for taking in larger amounts of slack, since it's dependent on the rope either being very stiff, or there being so little rope between the brake hand and the device that the rope won't buckle when you slide the brake hand back up it.

GO

I also belay from the harness, not the loop.

If your harness has a belay loop then you should use it. Read the instructions on your harness.

It's not my fault you're using your gear incorrectly.

I have never seen a harness manual with a picture of belay from the harness and a red x through it, which you would see since the belay loop is a recent invention, and everyone belayed this way in a slingshot belay back then.

Now, please take this elsewhere...

I have never seen a harness manual with a picture of belay from the harness and a red x through it, which you would see since the belay loop is a recent invention, and everyone belayed this way in a slingshot belay back then.

Now, please take this elsewhere, you obviously want to profuse your knowledge, not discuss.

I have never seen a harness manual with a picture of belay from the harness and a red x through it, which you would see since the belay loop is a recent invention, and everyone belayed this way in a slingshot belay back then.

Now, please take this elsewhere, you obviously want to profuse your knowledge, not discuss.

"The belay loop is designed for rappelling and belaying only. Use it if you find it convenient."

"Belay loops were invented ... to solve the problem of having no obvious place to clip into a harness for belaying and rappelling. The idea caught on because many people found it convenient."

-TomJones -BD

I'm following advice of the guy who designed harnesses for years at BD.

"The belay loop is designed for rappelling and belaying only. Use it if you find it convenient."

"Belay loops were invented ... to solve the problem of having no obvious place to clip into a harness for belaying and rappelling. The idea caught on because many people found it convenient."

-TomJones -BD

where did you find that?

"When using belay and rappel devices, they should only be attached to the belay loop." - Black diamond Technical notice for harnesses

"Always read the instructions and warnings that accompany your gear."
http://www.bdel.com/gear/momentum.php look under Directions for use

go the petzl.com and click on the reverso product under descenders. Watch the video via the link in the lower left. Skip to about 1/8 to 1/4 in the video where a guy is belaying a girl in what seems to be the 2001 space oddyssey station.

This link _should_ take you their.
http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=204

He uses the brake hand plam down, and feeds & slips, using the guide hand to manage the friction.

What's it called?

thanks in advance