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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 3:19 AM
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While there alot of good reasons to lead.
I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother.
The reason is simple.
Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder
So I'm happy just to follow.
So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad.
They are going to want to try to climb as close to that.
Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.
If you are a guy ;
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Can guys admit this?
I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?
What's your opinion on this subject?
(This post was edited by enigma on Apr 5, 2011, 3:47 AM)
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coastal_climber
Apr 5, 2011, 3:55 AM
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I'm an aspiring ACMG rock guide, therefore need to lead for training.
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happiegrrrl
Apr 5, 2011, 4:01 AM
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I've always wanted to lead, from the moment I understood what leading meant.
While it is true that some people prefer to partner with others who climb at the same level as they(swing leads or the other follows their leads), I have a great (guy) partner I have been traveling with this winter, who is extraordinarily good about me leading.
In fact, he pushes me TO do leads, and pushes me to lead harder than I would on my own. Of course, he sometimes follows using only one hand, or no hands, or barefoot....grrrr.
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pendereki
Apr 5, 2011, 4:18 AM
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I am not ashamed---I have talked my wife into leading when I am feeling chickens--t many times. She returns the favor. Sometimes we have even taken turns leading from bolt to bolt!
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special_blend
Apr 5, 2011, 4:18 AM
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enigma wrote: While there alot of good reasons to lead. If you are a guy ; I presume your male ego forces you to lead? What's your opinion on this subject?
This makes me rage. Ego has nothing to do with it.
Some men are compelled to lead, it simply seems like the natural choice. For them it seems like a natural decision to make to simply be a leader in some things or all things. It may not be because of his "ego" but rather simply because that's his drive, he has to lead to satisfy that burning need. It's got nothing to do with any type of self-centered behaviour where the man thinks he is somehow weaker or less of a man if he isn't leading or even following a woman.
It could also be that when a guy is leading all the time it's because the people around him see him as a natural choice to leader, either because he has more experience, knowledge, is stronger, or perhaps because his personality makes him a natural fit to lead teams. Once again, nothing to do with any ego bullshit.
I really fucking hate that bullshit feminist angle that Men constantly need to satisfy their "male ego"
(This post was edited by special_blend on Apr 5, 2011, 4:26 AM)
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tory_c89
Apr 5, 2011, 4:22 AM
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I am a guy and usually go climbing with my girlfriend and our good friend who is also a girl. We climb mainly around 5.9s because that is what I am comfortable lead climbing. I do not think my male ego forces me to lead, but I lead because the two girls I go with do not like it. They both have tried to lead a 5.7 route and both get nervous and could not finish it. When the route is top roped however they can go up it without a problem. I think it is more of a confidence thing than anything.
I like leading because it feels good to me when I put up the route. I do not care if the guy next to me is better because I am comfortable on the level I am at. It is something that i can say that I did and feel the excitement and adrenaline while going up the route.
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caughtinside
Apr 5, 2011, 4:23 AM
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I lead to satisfy my male ego.
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mheyman
Apr 5, 2011, 4:24 AM
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If you are a guy ;
I am
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
Thats not what it is about, even if ego is involed, and it most often is, Women I know have egos too really most everyone has an ego to work with and around, not just males, and not just in climbing.
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Generally no, But, on certain days, or climbs that are over my head - sure.
Can guys admit this?
Absolutly.
I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?
Againit not a male thing and no. I like to climb as well as I can, but plenty of others climb harder, again males and females.
What's your opinion on this subject?
??? Guess I think you are off base!
My 02:
To be a well rounded climber you need to learn to lead - and well. I don't see how anyone could consider themsevles a good climber if they don't because a good climvber is well rounded.
There is so much more to leading than toproping - starting with body positions to place grear and/or clip from. Toproping is a subset of leading. it's "just the movemnt". You can't learn to lead by TR, but you can more or less learn to TR by leading.
Leading changes the game entirely making the activily more mental. It's not a male thing its a mental thing.
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TheRucat
Apr 5, 2011, 4:25 AM
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enigma wrote: If you are a guy ; I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
Yes you are correct. Following and or top roping are signs of weakness. If we are to attract a mate we must show strength and prowess.
In reply to: However given the chance would you rather follow?
F that noise.
In reply to: Can guys admit this?
Clearly I can't.
In reply to: I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?
True. The alpha male must continuously defend his status, as they will be constantly challenged for this coveted position. If a challenger succeeds in out climbing an alpha male, they earn the rights to all the previous alpha male's privileges. Which I think includes his girlfriend.
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 4:43 AM
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TheRucat wrote: enigma wrote: If you are a guy ; I presume your male ego forces you to lead? Yes you are correct. Following and or top roping are signs of weakness. If we are to attract a mate we must show strength and prowess. In reply to: However given the chance would you rather follow? F that noise. In reply to: Can guys admit this? Clearly I can't. In reply to: I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true? True. The alpha male must continuously defend his status, as they will be constantly challenged for this coveted position. If a challenger succeeds in out climbing an alpha male, they earn the rights to all the previous alpha male's privileges. Which I think includes his girlfriend.
Finally !
It's funny because I've climbed with a few of these " elite alpha males" and they have said they won't even lead anything under 5.12,
but would belay me on whatever 5.10 I wanted.
Just in case someone saw them.
Kind of a "Hugh Hefner" with all the playmates?
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 4:46 AM
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mheyman wrote: If you are a guy ; I am I presume your male ego forces you to lead? Thats not what it is about, even if ego is involed, and it most often is, Women I know have egos too really most everyone has an ego to work with and around, not just males, and not just in climbing. However given the chance would you rather follow? Generally no, But, on certain days, or climbs that are over my head - sure. Can guys admit this? Absolutly. I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true? Againit not a male thing and no. I like to climb as well as I can, but plenty of others climb harder, again males and females. What's your opinion on this subject? ??? Guess I think you are off base! My 02: To be a well rounded climber you need to learn to lead - and well. I don't see how anyone could consider themsevles a good climber if they don't because a good climvber is well rounded. There is so much more to leading than toproping - starting with body positions to place grear and/or clip from. Toproping is a subset of leading. it's "just the movemnt". You can't learn to lead by TR, but you can more or less learn to TR by leading. Leading changes the game entirely making the activily more mental. It's not a male thing its a mental thing.
So when you are climbing with a guy and he leads better than you, it doesn't bother your male pride?
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ts83
Apr 5, 2011, 5:02 AM
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enigma wrote: So when you are climbing with a guy and he leads better than you, it doesn't bother your male pride?
My brother is my regular climbing partner. He's at least a number grade better than me, and not only does that not bother me, I'm actually grateful. We climb mostly trad, so I get to hop on routes that are otherwise over my head safety-wise. It makes me a better climber, which helps satisfy my male ego.
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guangzhou
Apr 5, 2011, 5:04 AM
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enigma wrote: TheRucat wrote: enigma wrote: If you are a guy ; I presume your male ego forces you to lead? Yes you are correct. Following and or top roping are signs of weakness. If we are to attract a mate we must show strength and prowess. In reply to: However given the chance would you rather follow? F that noise. In reply to: Can guys admit this? Clearly I can't. In reply to: I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true? True. The alpha male must continuously defend his status, as they will be constantly challenged for this coveted position. If a challenger succeeds in out climbing an alpha male, they earn the rights to all the previous alpha male's privileges. Which I think includes his girlfriend. Finally ! It's funny because I've climbed with a few of these " elite alpha males" and they have said they won't even lead anything under 5.12, but would belay me on whatever 5.10 I wanted. Just in case someone saw them. Kind of a "Hugh Hefner" with all the playmates?
Wow, you need some new partners for sure.
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 5:09 AM
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guangzhou wrote: enigma wrote: TheRucat wrote: enigma wrote: If you are a guy ; I presume your male ego forces you to lead? Yes you are correct. Following and or top roping are signs of weakness. If we are to attract a mate we must show strength and prowess. In reply to: However given the chance would you rather follow? F that noise. In reply to: Can guys admit this? Clearly I can't. In reply to: I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true? True. The alpha male must continuously defend his status, as they will be constantly challenged for this coveted position. If a challenger succeeds in out climbing an alpha male, they earn the rights to all the previous alpha male's privileges. Which I think includes his girlfriend. Finally ! It's funny because I've climbed with a few of these " elite alpha males" and they have said they won't even lead anything under 5.12, but would belay me on whatever 5.10 I wanted. Just in case someone saw them. Kind of a "Hugh Hefner" with all the playmates? Wow, you need some new partners for sure.
Well that was about 2 years ago, we were just discussing going on a climbing trip together in Red Rocks.
Don't worry there are plenty of climbing partners, out there for me. 
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guangzhou
Apr 5, 2011, 5:12 AM
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enigma wrote: While there alot of good reasons to lead. I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother. The reason is simple. Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder So I'm happy just to follow.
That's you. I know plenty of women who enjoy leading and lead just about everything. I also know men who don't lead.
In reply to: So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad. They are going to want to try to climb as close to that. Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.
I don't always want to climb at my limit. Sometime I try to climb beyond my limit, other times I enjoy just getting on casual routes.
In reply to: If you are a guy ; I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Can guys admit this?
I enjoy leading, but I've never felt forced to lead. I've also never said I would not climb something because it was top-rope or someone else leading.
In reply to: I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?
I realy don't care if my partner climbs harder than me. Actually, it quite nice when someone does, male or female, helps me push myself a bit. I wish I had a few more climbers near here who did climb harder than me.
I'll add, a couple of women I climb with climb harder than me and it doesn't bother at all. Some of my best climbing have been with partners who climbed harder than me.
In reply to: What's your opinion on this subject?
My opinion is you're looking to make waves by making this a male and female thing, when in all honesty is a choice not based in gender. Some people want to lead, other don't. Some people want first ascent, others don't. Some people boulder, others don't. Some people choose to climber, some choose not to.
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 5:32 AM
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I'm sure Beth Rodden leads harder than you !
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 5:36 AM
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happiegrrrl wrote: I've always wanted to lead, from the moment I understood what leading meant. While it is true that some people prefer to partner with others who climb at the same level as they(swing leads or the other follows their leads), I have a great (guy) partner I have been traveling with this winter, who is extraordinarily good about me leading. In fact, he pushes me TO do leads, and pushes me to lead harder than I would on my own. Of course, he sometimes follows using only one hand, or no hands, or barefoot....grrrr.
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dagibbs
Apr 5, 2011, 5:43 AM
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enigma wrote: While there alot of good reasons to lead. I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother. The reason is simple. Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder So I'm happy just to follow. So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad. They are going to want to try to climb as close to that. Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me. If you are a guy ; I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Can guys admit this?
I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?
What's your opinion on this subject?
So, am I responding to a troll? It sure looks like it... but whatever...
I'm a guy. I'll happily follow people up things that are tougher than I can lead. I'll happily lead things within my ability.
I started leading, because local rules forbid cliff-top access for a lot of climbs in my area, and I was climbing with friends who didn't climb as well as I did -- so if I didn't lead stuff, we didn't climb it.
I will happily climb with someone better than me. I've paid money to climb with someone better than me. (Hired a guide for a week at El Potrero Chico.)
(This post was edited by dagibbs on Apr 5, 2011, 5:43 AM)
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bearbreeder
Apr 5, 2011, 6:03 AM
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i lead when i think i can do it with a decent risk level
you have to lead if you want to climb things higher than a crag ... unless u like being a belay biatch all the time
that said ... ive chickened out on tons of leads ... if it aint there that day, dont push it unless you need to do it to top out
sometimes you DO need to be pushed ... if i didnt id be a top rope gumbay all day ...
that said i havent been leading all that much since my surgery ... not on stuff i think ill fall on anyways
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majid_sabet
Apr 5, 2011, 6:13 AM
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I like to see girls lead cause I enjoy watching the asses but then some times they are too slow and super conservative on every little protection and waste so much time beefing up everything which drives me crazy.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Apr 5, 2011, 6:15 AM)
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 6:15 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: i lead when i think i can do it with a decent risk level you have to lead if you want to climb things higher than a crag ... unless u like being a belay biatch all the time that said ... ive chickened out on tons of leads ... if it aint there that day, dont push it unless you need to do it to top out sometimes you DO need to be pushed ... if i didnt id be a top rope gumbay all day ... that said i havent been leading all that much since my surgery ... not on stuff i think ill fall on anyways
Of course , I hope you have a full recovery.
Feel Good. Most important
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 6:17 AM
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ts83 wrote: enigma wrote: So when you are climbing with a guy and he leads better than you, it doesn't bother your male pride? My brother is my regular climbing partner. He's at least a number grade better than me, and not only does that not bother me, I'm actually grateful. We climb mostly trad, so I get to hop on routes that are otherwise over my head safety-wise. It makes me a better climber, which helps satisfy my male ego.
Luckily , there's no sibling rivalry!!
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enigma
Apr 5, 2011, 6:20 AM
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tory_c89 wrote: I am a guy and usually go climbing with my girlfriend and our good friend who is also a girl. We climb mainly around 5.9s because that is what I am comfortable lead climbing. I do not think my male ego forces me to lead, but I lead because the two girls I go with do not like it. They both have tried to lead a 5.7 route and both get nervous and could not finish it. When the route is top roped however they can go up it without a problem. I think it is more of a confidence thing than anything. I like leading because it feels good to me when I put up the route. I do not care if the guy next to me is better because I am comfortable on the level I am at. It is something that i can say that I did and feel the excitement and adrenaline while going up the route.
Well, I think alot of guys do the same. They rather climb with women. Maybe its less pressure . I've been told recently. What do you feel?
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Brooklyn_Mikey
Apr 5, 2011, 6:40 AM
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If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. Lol.
enigma wrote: Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.
Then don't climb.
enigma wrote: I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?
I wouldn't know. I have never encountered it.
enigma wrote: What's your opinion on this subject?
This is the stupidest post I have ever seen.
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mushroom
Apr 5, 2011, 6:44 AM
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I just really dig on the ability to get the rope up higher, to go beyond what you perceive as limits. It doesn't even feel like climbing when I have a top rope--always training.
I really dig on the companionship of teammates who swap leads. In fact, I always climb harder when I am swapping leads. And after I belay a leader, I am always fixing for the next lead (unless typical excuses prevail [scared, tired, sleeping, under the influence]).
I sincerely believe the lead is always worth not carrying the pack. Holy s%& yes.
For me, this is part of my personality. I do have a weinerschnitzel, irl.
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