While there alot of good reasons to lead.


If you are a guy ;
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?

What's your opinion on this subject?

If you are a guy ;
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?

However given the chance would you rather follow?

Can guys admit this?

I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?

Yes you are correct. Following and or top roping are signs of weakness. If we are to attract a mate we must show strength and prowess.


F that noise.


Clearly I can't.


True. The alpha male must continuously defend his status, as they will be constantly challenged for this coveted position. If a challenger succeeds in out climbing an alpha male, they earn the rights to all the previous alpha male's privileges. Which I think includes his girlfriend.

If you are a guy ;
I am

I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
Thats not what it is about, even if ego is involed, and it most often is, Women I know have egos too really most everyone has an ego to work with and around, not just males, and not just in climbing.

However given the chance would you rather follow?
Generally no, But, on certain days, or climbs that are over my head - sure.

Can guys admit this?
Absolutly.

I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?
Againit not a male thing and no. I like to climb as well as I can, but plenty of others climb harder, again males and females.


What's your opinion on this subject?
??? Guess I think you are off base!

My 02:

To be a well rounded climber you need to learn to lead - and well. I don't see how anyone could consider themsevles a good climber if they don't because a good climvber is well rounded.

There is so much more to leading than toproping - starting with body positions to place grear and/or clip from. Toproping is a subset of leading. it's "just the movemnt". You can't learn to lead by TR, but you can more or less learn to TR by leading.

Leading changes the game entirely making the activily more mental. It's not a male thing its a mental thing.

So when you are climbing with a guy and he leads better than you, it doesn't bother your male pride?

Finally !

It's funny because I've climbed with a few of these " elite alpha males" and they have said they won't even lead anything under 5.12,
but would belay me on whatever 5.10 I wanted.

Just in case someone saw them.


Kind of a "Hugh Hefner" with all the playmates?

Wow, you need some new partners for sure.

While there alot of good reasons to lead.
I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother.
The reason is simple.
Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder
So I'm happy just to follow.

So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad.
They are going to want to try to climb as close to that.
Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.

If you are a guy ;
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Can guys admit this?

I've always wanted to lead, from the moment I understood what leading meant.

While it is true that some people prefer to partner with others who climb at the same level as they(swing leads or the other follows their leads), I have a great (guy) partner I have been traveling with this winter, who is extraordinarily good about me leading.

In fact, he pushes me TO do leads, and pushes me to lead harder than I would on my own. Of course, he sometimes follows using only one hand, or no hands, or barefoot....grrrr.

While there alot of good reasons to lead.
I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother.
The reason is simple.
Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder
So I'm happy just to follow.

So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad.
They are going to want to try to climb as close to that.
Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.

If you are a guy ;
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Can guys admit this?
I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?

What's your opinion on this subject?

i lead when i think i can do it with a decent risk level

you have to lead if you want to climb things higher than a crag ... unless u like being a belay biatch all the time

that said ... ive chickened out on tons of leads ... if it aint there that day, dont push it unless you need to do it to top out

sometimes you DO need to be pushed ... if i didnt id be a top rope gumbay all day ...

that said i havent been leading all that much since my surgery ... not on stuff i think ill fall on anyways

My brother is my regular climbing partner. He's at least a number grade better than me, and not only does that not bother me, I'm actually grateful. We climb mostly trad, so I get to hop on routes that are otherwise over my head safety-wise. It makes me a better climber, which helps satisfy my male ego.

I am a guy and usually go climbing with my girlfriend and our good friend who is also a girl. We climb mainly around 5.9s because that is what I am comfortable lead climbing. I do not think my male ego forces me to lead, but I lead because the two girls I go with do not like it. They both have tried to lead a 5.7 route and both get nervous and could not finish it. When the route is top roped however they can go up it without a problem. I think it is more of a confidence thing than anything.

I like leading because it feels good to me when I put up the route. I do not care if the guy next to me is better because I am comfortable on the level I am at. It is something that i can say that I did and feel the excitement and adrenaline while going up the route.

Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.

I just really dig on the ability to get the rope up higher, to go beyond what you perceive as limits. It doesn't even feel like climbing when I have a top rope--always training.

I really dig on the companionship of teammates who swap leads. In fact, I always climb harder when I am swapping leads. And after I belay a leader, I am always fixing for the next lead (unless typical excuses prevail [scared, tired, sleeping, under the influence]).

I sincerely believe the lead is always worth not carrying the pack. Holy s%& yes.

For me, this is part of my personality. I do have a weinerschnitzel, irl.

Why does your profile say you lead and follow 5.1 ?

C'mon anything under 5.6 is really a solo. Its not even worth a rope.

Maybe a few in Josh.

Are you kidding?

Thats the way to influence a thread - base your knowledge on a person based on what's in their profile - that many people never bother to change.

Why are all these posts cropping up again? There was a nice silence for over a month. Let's go back to that.

Why are you insulting someone climbing level. Why under 5.6 is a free solo. Why not under 5.10 or 5.12.

I can think of a few 5.5 or 5.4 pitches I doubt you would solo. I know I wouldn't. I'm sure the 5.6 third pitch of East Buttress of El-cap isn't on your list of pitches to solo anytime soon either.

I'm an aspiring ACMG rock guide, therefore need to lead for training.

Why does your profile say you lead and follow 5.1 ?

C'mon anything under 5.6 is really a solo. Its not even worth a rope.

Maybe a few in Josh.

Are you kidding?

From your profile:

Trad: 5.7 5.10c
Sport: 5.8 5.10b

So you only lead 5.7, but suggest that you solo anything under 5.6 unroped? Sure...

Why I lead? It's the only way to truly experience climbing.

Norway is beautiful. My favorite artist is Eduard Munch. I went to his museum.

I've never climbed there, but you have the alps . The ratings are different.

There are hard 5.6 in some areas like Joshua Tree and in Yosemite.

However a 5.1 is easier than walking up a flight of stairs in the United States for most 3 year olds.
Even scrambling is harder.

Maybe its just an oversight, or a simple mistake.

Finally !

It's funny because I've climbed with a few of these " elite alpha males" and they have said they won't even lead anything under 5.12,
but would belay me on whatever 5.10 I wanted.

Just in case someone saw them.


Kind of a "Hugh Hefner" with all the playmates?

..However a 5.1 is easier than walking up a flight of stairs in the United States for most 3 year olds...

I don't think "flight of stairs" means what you think it does.

In any even let me put it terms you’ll understand:

I like to lead, for the same reason my cat likes to chase a string. My favorite cats are Siamese. They’re from Egypt, not all, but originally. I once had a cat that ate ice cream. I would feed it to her on a fork. “Oh well”, I used to think, “if only you had an opposable thumb”. Has anyone seen a cat climb? They don’t use ropes. They like to chase string. I like to lead for the same reason.

I saw a cat climb a tree once. But it was because my dog was chasing her. My dog chase lots of things. Some with four legs some with two. I wonder how many legs she has chased in all? You know in some races they have different segments they call legs. Another type of race is one in boats where they use oars. Called crew. There are two types - sweeps - where you just pull on one oar with both hands and sculling where you have an oar in each hand. In England there are lots of crew races on the Thames such as Henley. And The Boat Race. That's between Oxford and Cambridge. My daughter spent time at both Oxford and Cambridge. She met her husband at Oxford. He was the president of the OUMC (Oxford University Mountaineering Club). They do a lot of climbing. In England. Both boys and girls. My dog is a girl. She chased me up a cliff once. It was 5.3 slab. She almost got it. But couldn't quite. Probably because she is a girl. I am a boy - so I led it for her. It's only natural. Shall we go around again? wheeee

I went to England once. Took a photo of my wife in a stone circle as a fertility blessing. Turns out she was already pregnant by 1 month. Our first child. A boy. Or second child is a girl. Both climb. We went on two trips where I promised the boy he could do his first outdoor lead. We didn't get to climb on either trip. So the lad no lead. My wife still has upper back issues from carrying the kids when they were babies. That and she has sore rotator cuffs from punching so much. We got rid of our cats and I hate the dog next door. That leaves me to get the rope up. More fun going up the front, than round the back.

Sometimes the back door is a nice variation. I tried to get in the backdoor of Stonehenge once. That's a stone circle in England. Very well known. Perhaps you have heard of it. Built by the Druids. They are not Christians. In Scandinavia they also had non Christian groups in the old days. Vikings and what not. They had horns. Both the boys and girls. All very horny I guess. Oslo in in Norway. There is a famous painting by Munch in a museum there. "The Scream". Reminds me of girls trying to lead.

I saw a tv show about vikings, the archeologists have found evidence that the warrior men lived together in a separate house. They had shirts, and decorated them. I don't think they bouldered, but since they had iron, they might have done ice. Vanilla Ice would have made a good viking and boulder. Snorli Sturlesson is my favorite, he led. He was bold.

Yes , You are pretty hardcore. Good luck with your training and becoming an awesome guide.

I think I am related to Eric the Red. He had a beard too. But his was red. Mine is grey. Maybe mine turned grey because I got scared leading. But i have to because I am a boy.

I think I am related to Eric the Red. He had a beard too. But his was red. Mine is grey. Maybe mine turned grey because I got scared leading. But i have to because I am a boy.

I think you need something in your life, and it starts with a "c"

Did Eric the Red climb? I bet if he did you would look like him. I heard Vikings were mean. I don't think you're mean, but I don't understand beards. If cats could grow lots of wiskers they would look like a beard. Are there red cats? Hey! I just thought of a good name for a red cat!

I think the Vikings were related to the Druids, but they liked to sail in boats on the water. For many years they referred to themselves as the Fluids. They changed their names to the Vikings to honor the football team from Minnesota. Their defensive line used to be called the Purple People Eaters, but that is a misnomer because there are no purple people outside of raves, and to eat them you would have to be a cannibal. Hannibal Lechter ate people, but he was not a Viking, he was a British actor. Besides, he didn't drink mead, but the Vikings did. Margaret Mead was not a Viking either, but she worked in New Guinea where there are cannibals. She was a leader in her field, and presumably a woman. Knock, Knock. Who's there? Mead. Mead who? I mead another drink. This was a very popular joke on Viking ships.

This makes me rage. Ego has nothing to do with it.

Some men are compelled to lead, it simply seems like the natural choice. For them it seems like a natural decision to make to simply be a leader in some things or all things. It may not be because of his "ego" but rather simply because that's his drive, he has to lead to satisfy that burning need. It's got nothing to do with any type of self-centered behaviour where the man thinks he is somehow weaker or less of a man if he isn't leading or even following a woman.

It could also be that when a guy is leading all the time it's because the people around him see him as a natural choice to leader, either because he has more experience, knowledge, is stronger, or perhaps because his personality makes him a natural fit to lead teams. Once again, nothing to do with any ego bullshit.


I really fucking hate that bullshit feminist angle that Men constantly need to satisfy their "male ego"

Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep those yahoos goin'
Trollin' trollin' trollin'

I think the Vikings were related to the Druids, but they liked to sail in boats on the water. For many years they referred to themselves as the Fluids. They changed their names to the Vikings to honor the football team from Minnesota. Their defensive line used to be called the Purple People Eaters, but that is a misnomer because there are no purple people outside of raves, and to eat them you would have to be a cannibal. Hannibal Lechter ate people, but he was not a Viking, he was a British actor. Besides, he didn't drink mead, but the Vikings did. Margaret Mead was not a Viking either, but she worked in New Guinea where there are cannibals. She was a leader in her field, and presumably a woman. Knock, Knock. Who's there? Mead. Mead who? I mead another drink. This was a very popular joke on Viking ships.

You're like the guy in the April Fools joke that has to point out that he knows that it's a joke so that everyone knows he wasn't duped.

You're like the guy in the April Fools joke that has to point out that he knows that it's a joke so that everyone knows he wasn't duped.

i laffed

While there alot of good reasons to lead.
I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother.
The reason is simple.
Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder
So I'm happy just to follow.

So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad.
They are going to want to try to climb as close to that.
Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.

If you are a guy ;
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Can guys admit this?
I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?

What's your opinion on this subject?

I think the Vikings were related to the Druids, but they liked to sail in boats on the water. For many years they referred to themselves as the Fluids. They changed their names to the Vikings to honor the football team from Minnesota. Their defensive line used to be called the Purple People Eaters, but that is a misnomer because there are no purple people outside of raves, and to eat them you would have to be a cannibal. Hannibal Lechter ate people, but he was not a Viking, he was a British actor. Besides, he didn't drink mead, but the Vikings did. Margaret Mead was not a Viking either, but she worked in New Guinea where there are cannibals. She was a leader in her field, and presumably a woman. Knock, Knock. Who's there? Mead. Mead who? I mead another drink. This was a very popular joke on Viking ships.

While there alot of good reasons to lead.
I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother.
The reason is simple.
Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder
So I'm happy just to follow.

So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad.
They are going to want to try to climb as close to that.
Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.

If you are a guy ;
I presume your male ego forces you to lead?
However given the chance would you rather follow?
Can guys admit this?
I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?

What's your opinion on this subject?

While there alot of good reasons to lead.
I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother.
The reason is simple.
Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder
So I'm happy just to follow.

This makes me rage. Ego has nothing to do with it.

Some men are compelled to lead . . .

If you are a guy;

I presume your male ego forces you to lead?

However given the chance would you rather follow?

Can guys admit this?

I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?

What's your opinion on this subject?

Enigma,

My profile says I lead and follow 5.1 because I don't care about my profile. I rarely find the motivation to entertain the rc.com forums these days.

With regards to everything below 5.6 being a free solo, I must tell you that just because your climbing area does not have 5.1-5.5 doesn't mean that the grade is dead everywhere else. I'd like to see your colors as you free solo Gunsight to South Peak (5.3) at Seneca.

Since you have free soloed enough to come up with a principle (anything under 5.6), let's hear some of your best free solos.

While there alot of good reasons to lead.

I've noticed that quite a bit of ladies don't even bother.

The reason is simple.
Generally the men I climb with lead harder and they want to climb harder

So I'm happy just to follow.

So if my partner can lead to 5.11 trad.

They are going to want to try to climb as close to that.

Personally I don't want to get hurt . So its not important to me.

If you are a guy

I presume your male ego forces you to lead?

However given the chance would you rather follow?

Can guys admit this?

I also have heard guys don't like other males to climb harder then them. Is that true?

What's your opinion on this subject?

I knew a boy once, he didnt have a beard though. We ate bacon together. I really like bacon. I like pigs too, but that doesn't stop me from eating them. Chickens are cute too. I wish I could have a few, so I could get fresh eggs every morning, then I could have bacon omelets daily. I don't have any though, so I'm stuck eating oatmeal. Today's oatmeal is pretty awesome, strawberries, almonds, cranberries and raisins with vanilla. Man I love froot, it makes me strong, not freakish body builder strong, but send hard 5.4s strong. Maybe one day I'll lead one.

California 5.11 = 5.10a by Montana standards and our rock is shit choss too. so what is your point?

they do not go by a/b/c/d, if the books says 5.10+ than expect it to be close to and 5.11.

My ego is bigger than Hugh Hefner's. So are my balls.

Pretty sure she means lead as in lead climbing, I.E. not being on top rope, rather than as in being a leader or charismatic figure that others follow.

My female partner leads just as well as I do. As a matter of fact, she'll lead (first) more often than I do on sport pitches. We have different optimum styles, but we both do pretty well.

Of the two of us, she is the more likely to be bent out of shape when she is out-performed.

We've both also noticed a lot of women that simply top rope, however, they're certainly welcome to enjoy climbing in their own way.

I lead so that when a hiker asks

'how did the rope get up there?'

my partner can say "the rope gnome took care of it. She uses some kind of magic. She calls it friction, but I know it's just plain magic!"

And then he takes a healthy sip from his handy flask.

Wow, when I write it like that, it looks like I lead to get my partner sloshed...

wow, this puts it all in a whole new light! HA!

2p

LS

A quick look at your profile suggests that you have no idea what a 5.11 feels like.

So are you saying all the climbs in California that are 5.11 are equal to 5.10a in Montana.?

Even in Joshua Tree?






P.S. I truly enjoyed your comment on Bodhisattva


Brilliant!

I am not ashamed---I have talked my wife into leading when I am feeling chickens--t many times. She returns the favor. Sometimes we have even taken turns leading from bolt to bolt!

A quick look at your profile suggests that you have no idea what a 5.11 feels like.


and a quick look that you take anything off the internet as being real suggests that you are from cali and I hurt your feel bads that your climbing grades are soft.
If you check out the graph there are many 5.10 c and ds logged MT routes meaning that is 11a/b + in cali. So yes I do know what a 5.11 feels like




P.S. I truly enjoyed your comment on Bodhisattva


Brilliant!

I lead to satisfy my male ego.

and a quick look that you take anything off the internet as being real suggests that you are from cali and I hurt your feel bads that your climbing grades are soft.
If you check out the graph there are many 5.10 c and ds logged MT routes meaning that is 11a/b + in cali. So yes I do know what a 5.11 feels like

I used to row competitive crew for 3 years.
I trained with those spoiled Winklevoss twins.
It was fun in the beginning.
However those races, were super intense. My team won a 2nd place medal.
Climbing was actually quite a bit mellow by comparison.
Its great that your daughter started out doing crew before climbing.
My back was made stronger by training for crew, and those 6 days a week workouts.
You must be very proud of your daughter .
thanks for sharing.

On the contrary, if we're talking about sport grades, which we weren't before. If you want to call your 5.10c Montana sport ticks a 5.11 that's fine. But how are your children going to feel when they find out their dad was on the internet bragging about being a 5.11 sport climber?

Have you climbed in Joshua Tree? So a climb such as illusion dweller which I believe is a 5.11 would be a 5.10a in Montana?

On the contrary, if we're talking about sport grades, which we weren't before. If you want to call your 5.10c Montana sport ticks a 5.11 that's fine. But how are your children going to feel when they find out their dad was on the internet bragging about being a 5.11 sport climber?

Norway is beautiful. My favorite artist is Eduard Munch. I went to his museum.

After looking at his painting, he should be named "Butt Munch."

The same as if you children learned you where trying to unsuccessfully argue with a 5.11 sport climber on the internet.

I was in England once. The woman’s voice admonished me to mind the gap as I rode the Piccadilly line. Actually, I climbed in France near Gap one time. Well, it was actually near Castellane. In Castellane the village square is all full of so chill outdoor cafes. But up the road and through the gorge is La Palud. In La Palud, they have a nice coffee shop where you can get good French pastries, because it is in France. There are no Vikings there. I climbed with German climbers. Germans love their Wagner ring cycle with his robust horned Teutonic women. Those Wagnerian women look the same as female Vikings with horns who (maybe, if converted, like Elenore of Aquitaine) would ride bare breasted against the infidel. But my German climbers had no horns. They were German boys. One of them did, however, have a red beard. They were all about playing jazz in the evenings. At this place you must rap down 1000 feet to a garden to start climbing. When you get to it you are 1000 feet from the bottom. Sometimes to climb out is not so easy. But I am confident those Wagnerian Teutonic women and many others from my New England home would love this shit.

This thread has it all.

Illusion Dweller is rated 10b, which seems about right.

This makes me rage. Ego has nothing to do with it.

Some men are compelled to lead, it simply seems like the natural choice. For them it seems like a natural decision to make to simply be a leader in some things or all things. It may not be because of his "ego" but rather simply because that's his drive, he has to lead to satisfy that burning need. It's got nothing to do with any type of self-centered behaviour where the man thinks he is somehow weaker or less of a man if he isn't leading or even following a woman.

It could also be that when a guy is leading all the time it's because the people around him see him as a natural choice to leader, either because he has more experience, knowledge, is stronger, or perhaps because his personality makes him a natural fit to lead teams. Once again, nothing to do with any ego bullshit.


I really fucking hate that bullshit feminist angle that Men constantly need to satisfy their "male ego"