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joel_gibbel
May 24, 2004, 6:57 PM
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When I mentioned the possibility of a PA guidebook on the first page of this thread, I meant for it to be somewhat sarcastic but Rob didn't take the bait. Rob (roclimb) has been working on a PA guidebook for some time now and has said has said that it should be published by this summer. I was hoping to get an update from him because I can't wait to get a copy. Keep the dream alive Dred, but you may not have to wait long, or do all the work yourself. Rob, any news for us on the guide? Hope you don't mind me putting in a plug for you.
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whenindoubtrunitout
May 24, 2004, 7:43 PM
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Posting a new area that was not previously there is an improvement to the database. I posted the nearest major metropolitan area to this climbing area. Sorry if there wasn't one within a distance of your personal liking.
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dredsovrn
May 24, 2004, 7:56 PM
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In reply to: When I mentioned the possibility of a PA guidebook on the first page of this thread, I meant for it to be somewhat sarcastic but Rob didn't take the bait. Rob (roclimb) has been working on a PA guidebook for some time now and has said has said that it should be published by this summer. I was hoping to get an update from him because I can't wait to get a copy. Keep the dream alive Dred, but you may not have to wait long, or do all the work yourself. Rob, any news for us on the guide? Hope you don't mind me putting in a plug for you.
I look forward to seeing the new book. I would be happy to share the information I have with anyone. As I stated before, I am not motivated by profit on this. I will keep working on mine as well. I enjoy the research, and the process.
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chronicle
May 24, 2004, 8:04 PM
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In reply to: I posted the nearest major metropolitan area to this climbing area. Sorry if there wasn't one within a distance of your personal liking.
I've been reading through this and keeping to myself, but dude, 250 miles!?! There wasn't another city closer than 250 miles? That would be like saying Governers Stable is located near Pittsburgh.
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whenindoubtrunitout
May 24, 2004, 8:22 PM
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Go ahead and improve it!
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coldclimb
May 24, 2004, 8:53 PM
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Sorry I didn't find this thread sooner, but it looks like Andy and Adam had things covered nicely. I am temporarily the head RDB Manager, so if there's any more problems here, they can be directed to me or the other SAMs, Andy and Thomas, and they'll get taken care of. That's what we're here for. :)
Good job guys.
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andy_lemon
May 25, 2004, 5:33 AM
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Man, I'd like to let runitout have a chance to add to some of these areas. Alot of areas that start out in the DB do so by being added with little information. Then they are expanded on by other users. It seems waistful to delete an area if there is actually something technical there. However, something like the highest point in PA shouldn't be added unless there is 5th class climbing... at least some cool 4th class stuff.
If no information can be added from what is there now I have no problem deleting the areas to lessen the cluster frig.
later,
Andy
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roclimb
May 25, 2004, 3:59 PM
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Joel G,
Sorry about that, I skipped through the post too fast and must have missed the part about the guide i'm doing. I am just a few short weeks from finishing the PA guidebook, after that It should be available soon. I hoped to have it done by now, but as someone mentioned; it's tough having a full time job, a life, and visiting dozens of climbing areas and writing about them. Most of the areas I had been to years ago but could not remember all the problems I did, grades etc., it's also been a project calling old PA pioneers who climbed in PA in the 70's, 60's, 50's and even 1940's! Trying to locate these folks has been really hard and time consuming.
Anyway it will be done soon. I will keep people posted and thank you for showing intrest.
~Rob :D
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mackavus
May 25, 2004, 4:07 PM
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[gross]
I have a wicked 40' boner for this book! I CANT WAIT!!!
[/gross]
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roclimb
May 25, 2004, 4:08 PM
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Andy,
Your doing a good job,
A few things about the database: The Tamaqua Quarry you deleted is actually a completely different area than the Tamaqua cliff. There are actually about 4 different areas in Tamaqua, I was merely adding a different spot so it should be put back in. It was a simple mistake I guess seeing as the areas are both named vertually the same.
Also-Five Finger Rock Area is actually seperate areas in Mocanaqua. None of them encompass Paradise or Mocanaqua proper. Five Finger is a name that was designated to encompass areas that were never listed on rc.com or anyplace else (one of these spots resembles a mini Gunk's crag). Someone must have heard the name five finger and assumed it was Mocanaqua and entered it incorrectly as Mocanaqua.
Either way you did the right thing getting it out because Moc. and the Library should be seperate.
Also-mt davis that was deleted has some bouldering there, I would have to get a map of the mtn to remember where it is though.
~Rob :D
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jason1
May 25, 2004, 4:09 PM
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waiting on pins and needles...
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rrrADAM
May 25, 2004, 4:11 PM
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In reply to: Andy, Your doing a good job, A few things about the database: The Tamaqua Quarry you deleted is actually a completely different area than the Tamaqua cliff. There are actually about 4 different areas in Tamaqua, I was merely adding a different spot so it should be put back in. It was a simple mistake I guess seeing as the areas are both named vertually the same. Also-Five Finger Rock Area is actually seperate areas in Mocanaqua. None of them encompass Paradise or Mocanaqua proper. Five Finger is a name that was designated to encompass areas that were never listed on rc.com or anyplace else (one of these spots resembles a mini Gunk's crag). Someone must have heard the name five finger and assumed it was Mocanaqua and entered it incorrectly as Mocanaqua. Either way you did the right thing getting it out because Moc. and the Library should be seperate. Also-mt davis that was deleted has some bouldering there, I would have to get a map of the mtn to remember where it is though. ~Rob :D
This is exactly why we asked that the users familiar with the Areas correct the problems. Many are upset that a guy who lives in Utah added some info they don't agree with, but you want a guy in Indiana to start fixing/deleting stuff. He asked for users doing the complaining to send him PMs, so who did ???
Saw lot's of complaining, and users telling us to "fix it", but so many were not willing to help do it correctly.
You, not particularly the user quoted above, now the saying... "Be carefull what you ask for, you just may get it."
To be honest... The RDB for PA reflects exactly what the users who live in PA have done in regards to it. Very little. Much of it has been entered by users who live in other states, so you should thank them not bite their heads off. :wink:
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mackavus
May 25, 2004, 4:21 PM
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OK OK OK OK OK
I sent the PM to andy to get him to correct and delete stuff. So Rob that was my fault...
The five fingers area regardless of the name contained climbs in the Library and I thought that it was a Library copy. That is why I told him to remove it. About the Tamaqua Cliff area, I was informed by locals of the area that climbing was closed there, unless I meant the quarry. So that was my mistake. I have no idea however who asked that Mt Davis be removed.
And YES, I did TRY to do this correctly, shit...I made 1 mistake, not 21 like blurt-it-out. I am going to continue to do my best, as I have before to help make the dBase as good as it can be.
Peace.
Edited to fight back against rrradam :P
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fredrogers
May 25, 2004, 4:27 PM
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I notice rrrAdam gets pretty defensive about the database whenever someone brings it up. May I suggest that there may not be enough helpful info on how to best use/add info to the database? There is a Routes FAQ but you will only see it if you click on the "Routes" link but not while browsing through the actual database. Maybe you should make this link more visible? And perhaps add a section to the FAQ about what an ideal entry should look like. Suggest that users add areas that they know and have recently visited so that the info is fresh in their mind. And suggest ways that people can edit other's entries but be careful of deleting the useful info that is already present.
And accept the fact that many people will ask some of the same questions over and over again. In time, they will get the hang of it. But don't harangue someone everytime they ask a question or, God forbid, makes a complaint.
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dontfall
May 25, 2004, 4:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Andy, Your doing a good job, A few things about the database: The Tamaqua Quarry you deleted is actually a completely different area than the Tamaqua cliff. There are actually about 4 different areas in Tamaqua, I was merely adding a different spot so it should be put back in. It was a simple mistake I guess seeing as the areas are both named vertually the same. Also-Five Finger Rock Area is actually seperate areas in Mocanaqua. None of them encompass Paradise or Mocanaqua proper. Five Finger is a name that was designated to encompass areas that were never listed on rc.com or anyplace else (one of these spots resembles a mini Gunk's crag). Someone must have heard the name five finger and assumed it was Mocanaqua and entered it incorrectly as Mocanaqua. Either way you did the right thing getting it out because Moc. and the Library should be seperate. Also-mt davis that was deleted has some bouldering there, I would have to get a map of the mtn to remember where it is though. ~Rob :D This is exactly why we asked that the users familiar with the Areas correct the problems. Many are upset that a guy who lives in Utah added some info they don't agree with, but you want a guy in Indiana to start fixing/deleting stuff. He asked for users doing the complaining to send him PMs, so who did ??? Saw lot's of complaining, and users telling us to "fix it", but so many were not willing to help do it correctly. You, not particularly the user quoted above, now the saying... "Be carefull what you ask for, you just may get it." To be honest... The RDB for PA reflects exactly what the users who live in PA have done in regards to it. Very little. Much of it has been entered by users who live in other states, so you should thank them not bite their heads off. :wink:
I would have to agree to a certain point. Yes, there are people from other states who have put up beta for Pa and then there is other users from Pa who have put alot just as much themselves. Not all Pa climbers are like this I believe, some simply dont care what the RDB looks like as they do what they want to do and I'm fine witht that. I for one have done what I could to the crags I know I could help. Look at a the highest ranking for Pa and you will see what I'm talking about. I'm simply trying to defend some of us but not everyone.
I am certainily happy how the DB looks and I could only hope it improves more and more.
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jason1
May 25, 2004, 4:45 PM
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IMO people should talk to the land owners before posting an area... there are quite a few places that sport hunting areas that should be avoided during the fall...
there are pro's, con's and impilcations of everything posted on the route data base.
adam is always defensive...
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roclimb
May 25, 2004, 4:53 PM
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Guys,
I hope I did not come across the wrong way. I was not complaining to andy, or about Moc., tamaqua or Mt Davis. I was just trying to make sure the right stuff gets put up. You guys are doing a good job. I am just trying to help a little.
The Mocanaqua stuff looks good as it is. It has been confusing over the years cause an old guide book incorrectly refered to moc as five finger. Since then the name stuck a bit. No one could have known though so thats totally cool.
That is correct that one of the tamaqua quarries is closed. thats the one on the west end of town however the one I entered the one on the east end of town is open to climbing because it is on public game lands. The climbers who said it was closed probably meant the quarry that is closed on the west end. The quarry I entered is pretty well hidden in the woods and I would be surprised if locals even know about it.
Anyway, Andy, Mackavus, you guys are great keep up the good work.
Talk to ya soon
~Rob :D
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phlsphr
May 25, 2004, 4:56 PM
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I think a useful insight gained by this discussion is that some additional guidelines would be helpful for those thinking of contributing an area. A note about access is already there. I would add a few, so that potential contributers always saw the following:
Please Read This First:
Your actions have consequences. If this area is on private land, or is sensitive with regards to access, it would be wise to engage the landowners, caretakers, or rangers BEFORE publicizing the area. In addition, you should omit detailed approach directions for such areas until they stabilize. This is a high-traffic website, and you cannot control how others will use the information you provide.
You should only add to the routes database when you have useful first hand knowledge to provide. Merely copying information from a guidebook, even if not word for word, is plagiarism unless you credit your source. Moreover, copying such information without permission may be a violation of copyright. Please do not do this.
Avoid merely publishing the name of an area with no other useful information. At the very least an area should contain some description of the climbing to be found at that area and some general directions to help locate the site (unless there are access issues). If you suspect there is climbing to be found in an area but lack first hand knowledge use the forum to request information and/or an addition to the database from those who are more knowledgeable of the area.
If you feel that an area should be deleted, or moved to a different region, contact the state manager first with your request. If the state manager does not respond within a reasonable amount of time contact the routes database administrator with your suggestion.
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rrrADAM
May 25, 2004, 6:13 PM
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In reply to: I notice rrrAdam gets pretty defensive about the database whenever someone brings it up. May I suggest that there may not be enough helpful info on how to best use/add info to the database? There is a Routes FAQ but you will only see it if you click on the "Routes" link but not while browsing through the actual database. Maybe you should make this link more visible? And perhaps add a section to the FAQ about what an ideal entry should look like. Suggest that users add areas that they know and have recently visited so that the info is fresh in their mind. And suggest ways that people can edit other's entries but be careful of deleting the useful info that is already present. And accept the fact that many people will ask some of the same questions over and over again. In time, they will get the hang of it. But don't harangue someone everytime they ask a question or, God forbid, makes a complaint.
Whenever a user adds or edits a route, section, or an area this link is provided:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/site/websitehelp.php?GroupID=2
How many have actually read it ???
Not defensive at all... Just trying to get users into the "solution". We get lots of bitching and complaining, but not a lot of help. We can't do it all for the users... It is a group effort, but some just complain instead of put forth an "effort". :wink:
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dontfall
May 28, 2004, 1:54 PM
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I'd like to point out something I noticed today as I was looking over Pa's DB. Looks like things get moved around once again...I must say it looks awesome so ty to whoever did it. I think it might have been kagunkie as he recently logged on. Just my guess...
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climbinganne
May 28, 2004, 2:38 PM
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In reply to: To be honest... The RDB for PA reflects exactly what the users who live in PA have done in regards to it. Very little. Much of it has been entered by users who live in other states, so you should thank them not bite their heads off. :wink:
bullcrap adam
i spent a hell of a lot of time in the routes DB teo summers ago
keith either changed it or deleted it
these areas are not correct
to pennsylvanians...the state is divided into 3 parts...
east being the smallest, central being about twice the size of east...and west takes up damn half the state anything west of state college is western pa
anyhow i PMed keith even called him to ask why he replaced what i thought was much better directions etc to areas...he wanted to make the changes himself...whatever :roll:
i gave up and now keith is no longer an active member of this site
he chopped a few bolts and disappeared :lol:
kathy and keith are fishing their free time away these days :P
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whenindoubtrunitout
Nov 15, 2005, 1:48 AM
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Is Salt Lake City in Utah or is it in the United States? No matter how you answer the question some idiot who just likes to argue can argue against you.
Thanks for the additional clarification of route information I initially included. Your contribution adds to the database. Just as mine did.
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fishbelly
Nov 15, 2005, 2:55 AM
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http://groups.msn.com/PAMountaineeringAssoc
Route information and climbers wanted
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mp29000
Nov 15, 2005, 7:28 PM
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Roclimb... Did you finish the PA guidebook yet? This is the only yse this flame fest of a post has given me.
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