As stated before many times over, if any info in the RDB is incorrect, we can all click "edit" and make it right. If something needs to be deleted, then contact the State Manager or the RDB Administrator.

I'll bite...

Ok. In this case I totally side with Rob. I agree with rrrAdam for just about any other place, but I think that PA might be a special case here. The PA database needs some serious work, SERIOUS WORK. There are tons of areas listed with no information at all... sometimes I would like to check out these areas.... but where is it? What is it? Who the hell adds this stuff like this? I really wish that the manager would at least DO SOMETHING about all problems with the PA database... I also would LOVE to see a rating system, just like we rate routes we could rate locales. I think that we should also have a mandatory access issues part of the main page for climbing areas. People are still going to go to places that are closed to climbing (I will confess I have done it in the past) but I think that in a state like PA which has many many areas that are access sensitive, we whould at least be presented with the issues before we unknowingly tresspass where we are not wanted and get in deep s---.

Peace :D


Edited to add more info.

also, why post climbing areas that are closed... is it really productive...

There is nothing wrong with putting a town in that is closer than the one I put in. Go ahead and do it. I simply chose to put a bigger city in that people might be more inclined to know about if they were not from the area.

I suppose if you dont want to contribute more than the name of the area just keep posting them and people on the site will contribute the names, location and directions and cities that are close by. :D

I didn't tell people the precise GPS coordinates of each bolt either. Why would I leave that information out? Get a life.

If you know more info about this area feel free to add that information. The information I provided was a starting point and is accurate.

If the information in the database could be clarified... clarify it.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Please stop your whining and contribute or go away.

I'll bite...

Ok. In this case I totally side with Rob. I agree with rrrAdam for just about any other place, but I think that PA might be a special case here. The PA database needs some serious work, SERIOUS WORK. There are tons of areas listed with no information at all... sometimes I would like to check out these areas.... but where is it? What is it? Who the hell adds this stuff like this? I really wish that the manager would at least DO SOMETHING about all problems with the PA database... I also would LOVE to see a rating system, just like we rate routes we could rate locales. I think that we should also have a mandatory access issues part of the main page for climbing areas. People are still going to go to places that are closed to climbing (I will confess I have done it in the past) but I think that in a state like PA which has many many areas that are access sensitive, we whould at least be presented with the issues before we unknowingly tresspass where we are not wanted and get in deep s---.

Peace :D


Edited to add more info.

In other words, get into the solution and start adding the info all of you seem to know.

It's the job of the climbers in PA to fill this info out.... Access details, directions, routes, etc...

Who do you propose should do it for you ???


States like Ca, Ut, and Co haver very active members who diligently keep the info updated, and detailed. These three states also have active State Managers. I have not seen the PA manager weigh in yet on these issues. But bear in mind that it's not the job of the MGR to input all the info, as it's impossible... I am the MGR of California, and we have over 490 Areas, MFRs, and Retailers, and I cannot possibly be familiar with all of them. I do get PMs regularly from users who tell me stuff is incorrect or duplicated, and I take appropriate action. (Hint... Remember I said to contact the Area MGR or the RDB Administrator ??? Ca users don't just b---- about duplicate or errant stuff in the RDB, they contact the MGR. :wink: ) In other words, get into the solution and start adding the info all of you seem to know.

As the PA manager doesn't seem to be participating in this thread let me ask you what you, rrradam, what would you do if someone added a bunch of areas to the CA database with NO information whatsoever other than a name? Take a look at runitout's entries. Do you have ANY listings in CA like that? Let's face it, there is SOMEWHERE someone could climb in virtually every town in CA. So can I just get out my atlas and add areas at will? I bet I could really increase my "ranking" that way. Wouldn't that be impressive!

Yes, there are several areas in California that are name only. Why should I delete it ??? Any info is better than none.

I notice that you have entered ZERO info into the RDB, yet are complaining about the info another has entered. Like I said, get into the solution brutha. Remember, any info is better than none, and you have shared no info, as in none.

Again, the RDB is a group effort, and it takes the efforts of the group to make it worthwhile. Ca, with 499 Areas (as of today) has an active group putting forth the effort for all to benifit. Can you not share your knowledge with the other users ???

no info is better than bad info....brutha

Again, the RDB is a group effort, and it takes the efforts of the group to make it worthwhile. Ca, with 499 Areas (as of today) has an active group putting forth the effort for all to benifit. Can you not share your knowledge with the other users ???

No disrespect here,

I'm sure everybody here realizes that the RDB is a group effort. The people posting to this thread would add info if they had it. The whole focus of this thread is to get some way inaccurate stuff deleted (Thanks for looking into this Andy), and perhaps the most important, to keep areas that will need deleted from showing up so often. I'm all for adding info and making things better, but like I said before, why post something if you don't have anything quality to provide (quality not being whether the rock is good or not, but the info you provide). Having said that, stop posting trash, lets get the areas in question deleted, and lets bring the PA RDB back up to par.

Boss

Active users from this state have tried to contact kagunkie in the past to fix some of the ugly dBase problems, myself included, and have gotten nothing but frustration.

I was under the impression that people had attempemted to make contact with kagunkie. Either way, Andy has offered to help if need be, and as he said, kagunkie is most likely busy which is definitely understandable. I'll rephrase what I said earlier about none of us having the info for said areas...I personally do not have any information on these areas, and I was assuming that since everyone on this post is trying to get things fixed, that none of them have it either. Seems logical to me. And in all seriousness, I'm not attacking whenindoubt, I would just imagine that someone that has written a guide book would have a better idea of what is and is not accurate and appropriate for the RDB. All we're asking (or should I say I am asking) is that if you want to put an area up, put some thought into it. If you have questions as to the accuracy of what you are posting, then take it upon yourself to maybe ask a question in the regional discussions forum, get the correct info, then post. That seems much easier than bothering the area MGR repeatedly to fix an ongoing problem.

Boss

Gotcha, and agree.

If Keith was unavailable, then we should have gotten ahold of Doug and had him look into replacing him, as that was what was meant by "if not happy contact the RDB Admin". It's the job of the Area Manager (AM) to look into things like this.

Andy is a Senior AM, so he can do this, as that's part of his job. I know Keith personally, and he likes being the MGR of PA, but he may be too busy to do the job required for your state. Something to ponder... Who would like the job if it becomes available ???

I for one thing have already done this in the past. I pmed the Senior Mod who is in charge of area managers saying that our State manager seems to be inactive and there is many things needing to be fixed. I never got a reply back saying something was going to be done but maybe something needs to be done. I have fixed and added quite the amount of beta for the areas I have only climbed at and know about. I have even contacted roclimb more than a handful of times to make sure beta I was putting up was accurate. I don't know the state well enough to become a Pa manager so that question is out but I'll do needs be. If anyone wants me to start working on certain areas of the Pa DB, Pm me and we can go from there.

Chris

Andy is a Senior AM, so he can do this, as that's part of his job. I know Keith personally, and he likes being the MGR of PA, but he may be too busy to do the job required for your state. Something to ponder... Who would like the job if it becomes available ???

If this is the case, would it be possible to divide PA MGR into W, Central, and E? Or even go as far as NW, SW, etc. so that each part of the state has someone with intimate knowledge of each area? Thinking about this, I see it being very useful, but at the same time unnecessary if there is one person who knows the state well. Just ideas.

Boss

Agreed 100%. As I have said, numerous times, if you know info is bad, click and correct it. It takes just as much time as clicking "reply" in a thread... And certainly less time than complaining about it repeatedly for months. I would fix it for you if I could, but the only areas I have climbed at in PA are Mocanaqua and Tilbury, both of which I added to the RDB almost 4 years ago.
_________________

Tony , first off YOU LIVE IN UTAH

and second off you suck so stay out of the database, if your gonna scrw things up for all of us!

That was constructive.



Sounds like we need to contact Doug (polarwid) when he returns to consider looking for replacements for NY and PA possibly if things aren't being taken care of in a timely manner. As I said previously in this thread... I get about 4-8 PMs weekly about Routes, Sections, and/or Areas in the CA RDB from users and act accordingly. The AM for an active state is a job that needs at least weekly attention and commitment.

WHO CARES IF IT ICONSTRUCTIVE, THEY GUY IS A JACKASS, AND BY SCRWING UP THE DATABASE, IS HE BEING HELPFUKL AND CONSTRUCTIVE, I DONT THINK SO , SO SPARE ME, THEY GUYS IS JACKAS$

Sounds like we need to contact Doug (polarwid) when he returns to consider looking for replacements for NY and PA possibly if things aren't being taken care of in a timely manner. As I said previously in this thread... I get about 4-8 PMs weekly about Routes, Sections, and/or Areas in the CA RDB from users and act accordingly. The AM for an active state is a job that needs at least weekly attention and commitment.

I get about 4-8 PMs weekly about Routes, Sections, and/or Areas in the CA RDB from users and act accordingly.

I for one would like to see that changed. Those pm's should be going to Polarwid and if he is away or busy, or even if we know more about the area... should be directed to the Database Managers. The problem here is LACK OF COMMUNICATION. Users on this site don't know who does what? There is a description buried somewhere on the site that lists me as an area manager... it might be fun to try and find it again, but for the most part people don't know what the heck I do here until I tell them. Everyone thinks I'm some sort of a moderator.

About JOINT STATE MANAGERS: I have suggested this about 2 and a half years ago to Trevor. He was more active then and said he would rather just use one person that can do the job. This would be a really great tool to be able to have 2 people to look over an area.

About the PA DATABASE: Since my post I have recieved 0 pm's to fix the PA database. That almost explains how much of a big deal this is... :roll: I've never been to PA so I don't know personally. If someone types out where they want the areas, where they want the regions, and where they want sections, routes moved... where they want areas deleted... where they want things added or fixed, I can accomplish this in a day. However, I need the info first.

later,
Andy

Is all of this banter really worth it? I mean we're talking about PA, aren't we? Who flipping cares about the data base. The choss that is PA climbing has and will always be there even if the directions and route descriptions are wrong.

Adam, I thought you where talking about the whole routes database... not the CA section. Like you said though, I should be recieving pm's about these issues before you. If I don't recieve pm's before you, then this position of "RDB Manager" isn't really needed, right?

Good job Andy. Thanx for your work. :wink:

Andy,

move Bauer rocks into southeastern region as well. It's city is Allentown, maybe you missed it.

When I mentioned the possibility of a PA guidebook on the first page of this thread, I meant for it to be somewhat sarcastic but Rob didn't take the bait. Rob (roclimb) has been working on a PA guidebook for some time now and has said has said that it should be published by this summer. I was hoping to get an update from him because I can't wait to get a copy. Keep the dream alive Dred, but you may not have to wait long, or do all the work yourself. Rob, any news for us on the guide? Hope you don't mind me putting in a plug for you.

I posted the nearest major metropolitan area to this climbing area. Sorry if there wasn't one within a distance of your personal liking.

Go ahead and improve it!

Andy,
Your doing a good job,
A few things about the database: The Tamaqua Quarry you deleted is actually a completely different area than the Tamaqua cliff. There are actually about 4 different areas in Tamaqua, I was merely adding a different spot so it should be put back in. It was a simple mistake I guess seeing as the areas are both named vertually the same.

Also-Five Finger Rock Area is actually seperate areas in Mocanaqua. None of them encompass Paradise or Mocanaqua proper. Five Finger is a name that was designated to encompass areas that were never listed on rc.com or anyplace else (one of these spots resembles a mini Gunk's crag). Someone must have heard the name five finger and assumed it was Mocanaqua and entered it incorrectly as Mocanaqua.

Either way you did the right thing getting it out because Moc. and the Library should be seperate.

Also-mt davis that was deleted has some bouldering there, I would have to get a map of the mtn to remember where it is though.

~Rob :D

This is exactly why we asked that the users familiar with the Areas correct the problems. Many are upset that a guy who lives in Utah added some info they don't agree with, but you want a guy in Indiana to start fixing/deleting stuff. He asked for users doing the complaining to send him PMs, so who did ???


Saw lot's of complaining, and users telling us to "fix it", but so many were not willing to help do it correctly.

You, not particularly the user quoted above, now the saying... "Be carefull what you ask for, you just may get it."


To be honest... The RDB for PA reflects exactly what the users who live in PA have done in regards to it. Very little. Much of it has been entered by users who live in other states, so you should thank them not bite their heads off. :wink:

I notice rrrAdam gets pretty defensive about the database whenever someone brings it up. May I suggest that there may not be enough helpful info on how to best use/add info to the database? There is a Routes FAQ but you will only see it if you click on the "Routes" link but not while browsing through the actual database. Maybe you should make this link more visible? And perhaps add a section to the FAQ about what an ideal entry should look like. Suggest that users add areas that they know and have recently visited so that the info is fresh in their mind. And suggest ways that people can edit other's entries but be careful of deleting the useful info that is already present.

And accept the fact that many people will ask some of the same questions over and over again. In time, they will get the hang of it. But don't harangue someone everytime they ask a question or, God forbid, makes a complaint.

To be honest... The RDB for PA reflects exactly what the users who live in PA have done in regards to it. Very little. Much of it has been entered by users who live in other states, so you should thank them not bite their heads off. :wink: