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zozo
Aug 5, 2004, 10:15 PM
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I searched on this and came up with nothing. Is there, and what is the best way to back up a belay?
An autoblocker on the feed side just didnt seem right to me.
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saskclimber
Aug 5, 2004, 10:22 PM
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that's why the belay loop and belay biner are so beefy...so there shouldn't be a need to back it up. It'd be kinda hard to anyways, because when you are feeding rope out to the leader, the method used to back it up would likely arrest the feed too. Maybe if you could set up a prussik that didn't lock up under your feed speed, but did during a fall if the original belay method failed. I wouldn't really worry about backing it up though. As long as you check all the gear that's involved, and you are a competent belayer, you should be good.
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tenn_dawg
Aug 5, 2004, 10:22 PM
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You can coil your rope sloppily and stand in it while belaying. Then hopefully if your belay fails, a coil will tangle on your legs and stop your partner from decking.
Really, if your belay fails it's going to take a miracle to remedy the situation. There is no easy or effective way to back up a belay, therefore, belaying requires increased competency and attention on the part of the belayer.
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tenn_dawg
Aug 5, 2004, 10:24 PM
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In reply to: that's why the belay loop and belay biner are so beefy...so there shouldn't be a need to back it up. It'd be kinda hard to anyways, because when you are feeding rope out to the leader, the method used to back it up would likely arrest the feed too. Maybe if you could set up a prussik that didn't lock up under your feed speed, but did during a fall if the original belay method failed.
Interesting thought, but the prussik would melt and fail if you used it to catch a lead fall in this method.
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saskclimber
Aug 5, 2004, 10:25 PM
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Depends on what you use to make the prussik out of. A prussik doesn't melt if it catches a rappel fall does it?
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zozo
Aug 5, 2004, 10:26 PM
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In reply to: Maybe if you could set up a prussik that didn't lock up under your feed speed, but did during a fall if the original belay method failed. I wouldn't really worry about backing it up though. As long as you check all the gear that's involved, and you are a competent belayer, you should be good.
My thinking is what happens if the belayer becomes unconcious for some reason. Im reading alot on how to rescue a leader or second but there is no mention about what happens if the belayer has problems.
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drmsetplr
Aug 5, 2004, 10:26 PM
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What would fail? Harness or ATC?
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saskclimber
Aug 5, 2004, 10:29 PM
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If the belayer has problems? You can get struck by lightning, or attacked by a bear too...I guess all you could really do is if you knew that a problem was coming, say you were epileptic and started smelling burnt toast, would be to hold your brake end in the locking position, thread the rope through your locker, and then tie it up to the rope going to the leader. Make sure that you clipped the locker into an anchor too though. I doubt you would have enough time to do all this though...just make sure you take your meds I guess :P, as for the failing part in the previous post, it is more likely that the harness would fail vs. the ATC, but take a close look at how your belay loop is constructed. it's usually wrapped around 3 or 4 times, and bar tacked tighter than fort knox. That's why it is important to do regualr gear inspections before you climb though.
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vegastradguy
Aug 5, 2004, 10:32 PM
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my backup if my belayer passes out is him tied to anchor and the rope tied to him. :)
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saskclimber
Aug 5, 2004, 10:34 PM
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In reply to: my backup if my belayer passes out is him tied to anchor and the rope tied to him. :)
I know (think) you're being sarcastic with that, but yeah, if that was the case, wouldnt the impact of you falling as far as the rope allowed shock load pretty much everything in the system?
I guess the safest way would be to anchor the belayer, and use a gri gri to belay with. Just like they do when teaching most beginners in gyms
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tedc
Aug 5, 2004, 10:34 PM
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1) Gri Gri
2) Second belayer. This is done while teaching belaying fairly often.
3) Tie a knot every 10' in the rope which will not pull through your device. (Remember to untie the knots) This happens to be a decent method of rope management on multipitch as well. Belayer pulls up rope for second and ties overhands every X feet. Clips over hand to a draw on anchor Repeat. Repeat. When second goes out on lead the belay is "backed up" by the knots. Just have to pay lots of attention and get the knots untied in time. (WITHOUT LETTING GO OF THE BELAY).
You might be best served to just be a really careful belayer. And wear a helmet.
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drmsetplr
Aug 5, 2004, 10:50 PM
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I know it is improbable, but I have wondered on more than one occaision just what it would be like to watch the metal of your ATC come prying apart. Or maybe the biner that your using fail. Don't immediately start assuming things about me. Just know that I'm the kind of person who drives down the road waiting for the guy in the other lane to swerve and hit me head on. Truly disturbing thoughts. Maybe that is why I sleep so well at night. I get all the nightmares out in the day time. :D
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vegastradguy
Aug 5, 2004, 10:53 PM
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actually, i wasnt being sarcastic. thats truth for me, anyway.
i also dont use grigri's except when TR'ing or aid climbing.
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saskclimber
Aug 5, 2004, 10:54 PM
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In reply to: I know it is improbable, but I have wondered on more than one occaision just what it would be like to watch the metal of your ATC come prying apart. Or maybe the biner that your using fail. Don't immediately start assuming things about me. Just know that I'm the kind of person who drives down the road waiting for the guy in the other lane to swerve and hit me head on. Truly disturbing thoughts. Maybe that is why I sleep so well at night. I get all the nightmares out in the day time. :D
I think we've all had that. Sometime I freak out that the Anchors at the top will pop in a gym. It's something that you gotta get used to, but don't get complacent with. I'm pretty sure that ATC's are machined out of a solid piece of metal, so there shouldnt be a problem with them, and Belay biners are really beefy, so even with the gate open, they would still likely hold a fall. This is why you must ALWAYS check your gear out before you but it on.
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nextascent
Aug 5, 2004, 11:25 PM
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Dave....
Come with me to that self rescue course! :lol:
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reno
Aug 5, 2004, 11:35 PM
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- Belayer tied in to rope.
- Belayer anchored to ground (tree, gear, etc.)
- Knot tied in rope every 10 feet or so... overhand knot, as it is easy to untie one-handed, yet bulky enough that it won't feed through the belay device.
- As leader climbs, belayer (with the non-braking hand) unties each knot as it approaches the belay device.
- If belayer becomes unconscious (insert reason here... lightning, rockfall, attacked by wild killer chipmunk with rabies, etc.) and leader falls, leader will only fall to distance of next knot. Then knot will stop fall, belayer will get pulled up until his anchor stops him.
- Then the fun begins: "How the heck do I self-rescue with an unresponsive belayer and a limited amount of rope?"
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wormly81
Aug 5, 2004, 11:43 PM
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I am having trouble understanding the reasons why you would need to back up your belay.
Take the knot tying example. So now instead of focusing on the climber you are belaying and proper belay technique, you are now fumbling around tying and untying knots? It seems to me that the KISS principle is very much true for a good belay. Focus on your climber, your belay IS the backup.
What other situations would you need to back up a belay??...... Interesting...
...Beginners! They dont know how to belay so giving them another knot or two to work with will help them pick up proper technique that much quicker?!?!?
...Are you constantly knocking your belayer unconcious when you trundle rocks on him/her? If so then you better back up your belay! [if this is the case you deserve to rap off your favorite alien to save them]
I think that this discussion of backing up a belay is wasting time that could be spent discussing proper belay techniques. In my short time climbing it seems that most people would spend hours talking about improving their climbing techniques but show no interest in a coversation about the intricacies of a great belay.
Jeff
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zozo
Aug 5, 2004, 11:48 PM
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In reply to: - Then the fun begins: "How the heck do I self-rescue with an unresponsive belayer and a limited amount of rope?"
Hey Reno!
That was my next question! :shock:
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zozo
Aug 5, 2004, 11:53 PM
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In reply to: I am having trouble understanding the reasons why you would need to back up your belay.
Your belaying your leader on pitch 3 of 5. A rock hits you on the head and kills you ( despite you wearing your helmet ).
Your diabetic and dont know it. What a great time to go limp for the first time!
Like others have suggested, either something goes wrong with your harness or device or biner.
Those are three scenarios right off the top of my head. Yeah these are statistically probably insignifiigant, but if there is a reasonable way to do it on some serious undertaking it might be good to know.
So far the knots idea sounds the best.
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fadeux
Aug 6, 2004, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: - Then the fun begins: "How the heck do I self-rescue with an unresponsive belayer and a limited amount of rope?" Hey Reno! That was my next question! :shock:
my guess would be that you are tied into a rope coming down from an anchor and there is a rope going up to that anchor from unconsious belayer. Hmm... Here goes. (From ourdoor newbs perspective)
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Upclimb to anchor if possible. (Ascend rope maybe?)
Clip self to anchor
Rig something in the rope so its tied to you or the anchor, just to insure you won't drop it.
Untie from system
Double fig 8 the end of the rope and clip it to anchor, the rope should now have slack in it.
Fashion a rappel down.
----------------
Thats my guess, ok let me have it.
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wormly81
Aug 6, 2004, 12:13 AM
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In reply to: Your belaying your leader on pitch 3 of 5. A rock hits you on the head and kills you ( despite you wearing your helmet ).
The leader has the ability to place gear to rappel off. I dont see how fixing the rope at the bottom would put you in any better situation.
In reply to: Your diabetic and dont know it. What a great time to go limp for the first time!
Thats a real bummer but I don't see things going down like that. Hopefully I get some warning signs that my partner is about to check out on me.
In reply to: Like others have suggested, either something goes wrong with your harness or device or biner.
I see something going wrong because you were trying to back up a belay instead of just belaying properly in the first place. Mayve you create a situation in which you need that backup.
Thats just whats going through my head. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.
Jeff
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fletussanguine
Aug 6, 2004, 12:22 AM
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You're looking at it from the point of it's stupid to plan the redundancy, and based on you seeing what's coming up, wormly. The point of the whole topic is back-up, in the case that you DON'T see it coming. Which is how you should always plan things...for the worst possible scenario. Because if you don't, one day maybe the person you're climbing with will have a diabetic attack, (as unlikely as it seems), and you might be caught screwing the pooch because you didn't have any redundant saves. I don't think you're wrong, really...I just think you're not looking at everything in the right sense.
Michael
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curt
Aug 6, 2004, 12:29 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I am having trouble understanding the reasons why you would need to back up your belay. Your belaying your leader on pitch 3 of 5. A rock hits you on the head and kills you ( despite you wearing your helmet ). Your diabetic and dont know it. What a great time to go limp for the first time! Like others have suggested, either something goes wrong with your harness or device or biner. Those are three scenarios right off the top of my head. Yeah these are statistically probably insignifiigant........
I spend very little time worrying about things that are statistically insignificant.
Curt
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jt512
Aug 6, 2004, 12:35 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I am having trouble understanding the reasons why you would need to back up your belay. Your belaying your leader on pitch 3 of 5. A rock hits you on the head and kills you ( despite you wearing your helmet ). Your diabetic and dont know it. What a great time to go limp for the first time! Like others have suggested, either something goes wrong with your harness or device or biner. Those are three scenarios right off the top of my head. Yeah these are statistically probably insignifiigant...
I don't know. The risk of undiagnosed diabetes has really got me thinking.
-Jay
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summit
Aug 6, 2004, 12:41 AM
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I agree the knot idea sounds good but it seems to me it might take too much of your attention off the person your belaying. Especially if someone did an overhand too tight :P .
-Eric
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reno
Aug 6, 2004, 12:56 AM
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In reply to: I am having trouble understanding the reasons why you would need to back up your belay. Take the knot tying example. So now instead of focusing on the climber you are belaying and proper belay technique, you are now fumbling around tying and untying knots? It seems to me that the KISS principle is very much true for a good belay. Focus on your climber, your belay IS the backup. What other situations would you need to back up a belay??
Jeff:
As Curt mentioned, it *IS* statistically rare that one would need such actions. And if you notice, I didn't say "Do this every time you climb." That's unrealistic. The original question was "How would you do it?" [if it was needed.] Hence, my post.
I failed, it seems, in expressing myself clearly. The knots I suggest tying would be loose, and easy to untie one-handed. I do this often when belaying a top-rope... tie a knot behind the belay device. When lowering, I easily untie them with my left hand. Takes about a second, perhaps two. If your leader is moving so fast that you don't have a second or two when she/he is looking for the next move, then I'd postulate she/he won't fall, and therefore the whole discussion is a moot point. But if your leader is anything like the people I have climbed with, they'll make a move or two, pause to look upward at the next sequence, move again, pause, etc.
But let's take a look at a real-life situation: Touching the Void. Simon was lowering Joe, and started to loose his footing. *IF* he had a knot backup of his lowering system, he *might* have had the option of letting the lower system lock off, then trying to stick an axe, regain his footing, more adequately secure himself, etc. And a belay system and lowering system are very much akin in mechanics, only reversed (sure, there's more to it, but the basics are the same... control of the rope through a friction-creating device.)
I'm not (repeat NOT) saying this would have changed anything. But it *IS* a good mental/hypothetical exercise, and that's the concept of this thread... "Hypothetically speaking, what would you do for XYZ situation...?"
All said and done, it's better to discuss such issues in a forum like this than fumble about, trying to improvise when it's needed.
Thus, my post.
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tenn_dawg
Aug 6, 2004, 12:58 AM
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In reply to: Depends on what you use to make the prussik out of. A prussik doesn't melt if it catches a rappel fall does it?
Catching a rappel fall is considerably different from catching someone at the end of a lead fall, wouldn't you agree? The prussik would only have to catch a rap fall at a very slow speed. Even then, it's not anywhere near 100% effective.
Catching someone at the end of a whipper with a loose prussik that would have to come tight after the belay failed? Nope, not going to happen. At least not reliably.
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jt512
Aug 6, 2004, 1:03 AM
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In reply to: You're looking at it from the point of it's stupid to plan the redundancy, and based on you seeing what's coming up, wormly. The point of the whole topic is back-up, in the case that you DON'T see it coming. Which is how you should always plan things...for the worst possible scenario. Because if you don't, one day maybe the person you're climbing with will have a diabetic attack, (as unlikely as it seems), and you might be caught screwing the pooch because you didn't have any redundant saves. I don't think you're wrong, really...I just think you're not looking at everything in the right sense. Michael
And it's not just diabetes, Wormly. Your partner could suddenly be struck by any number of previously undiagnosed diseases, at any moment, without any warning whatsoever. Diabetes, epilepsy, narcolepsy, schizophrenia, cerebral hemorrhage, sudden cardiac death. This list goes on and on. Do you really think it's safe to ignore this risk?
-Jay
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zozo
Aug 6, 2004, 1:08 AM
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OK Jay,
The diabetic thing might be a stretch, but what if a plane carrying a load of grand pianos loses one out the back and strikes your belayer on the head. Striking a nice c# on the way down?!?!
What if................
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fadeux
Aug 6, 2004, 1:14 AM
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ok, have two belayers, at least 20 feet apart. furthest belayer makes sure its ok, then feeds rope to belayer #2, then #2 feeds it to you. Also, the rope will need to go through a biner at an anchor point at belayer #2, in case #2 gets hit with the piano. Also, if you have more than 2 friends, have someone else top rope you. Actually, while were at it, just stay home and play tekken.
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jt512
Aug 6, 2004, 1:27 AM
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In reply to: ok, have two belayers, at least 20 feet apart.
I'd go with three belayers, 5 feet apart. The belayer furthest from the climber puts a knot in the rope, and passes it to the second belayer, who then unties the knot after the third belayer ties a new one. With this system, the first belayer never has to fiddle with any knots, and you always have a backup knot no more than 10 feet from the belay device. However, this system can still be defeated if one of the belayers comes down with a previously undiagnosed sudden-onset highly contagious disease that is quickly fatal, such as Ebola Zaire.
-Jay
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fadeux
Aug 6, 2004, 1:36 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: ok, have two belayers, at least 20 feet apart. I'd go with three belayers, 5 feet apart. The belayer furthest from the climber puts a knot in the rope, and passes it to the second belayer, who then unties the knot after the third belayer ties a new one. With this system, the first belayer never has to fiddle with any knots, and you always have a backup knot no more than 10 feet from the belay device. However, this system can still be defeated if one of the belayers comes down with a previously undiagnosed sudden-onset highly contagious disease that is quickly fatal, such as Ebola Zaire. -Jay
Come on, 3 belayers? Now you're just being silly...
oh, on a serious note, if my belayer were killed, i probably wouldn't have the mental composure to find my way safely down, i'd honestly probably just panic, and either fall, or stay up there and scream.
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jt512
Aug 6, 2004, 1:38 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: ok, have two belayers, at least 20 feet apart. I'd go with three belayers, 5 feet apart. The belayer furthest from the climber puts a knot in the rope, and passes it to the second belayer, who then unties the knot after the third belayer ties a new one. With this system, the first belayer never has to fiddle with any knots, and you always have a backup knot no more than 10 feet from the belay device. However, this system can still be defeated if one of the belayers comes down with a previously undiagnosed sudden-onset highly contagious disease that is quickly fatal, such as Ebola Zaire. -Jay Come on, 3 belayers? Now you're just being silly...
I don't know about "silly," but consdering that the entire belay team could still be wiped out by the right disease, maybe not worth the effort.
-Jay
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fadeux
Aug 6, 2004, 1:41 AM
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yeah, better just stick with gamecube...
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wormly81
Aug 6, 2004, 1:44 AM
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Jay wrote the following
In reply to: Diabetes, epilepsy, narcolepsy, schizophrenia, cerebral hemorrhage, sudden cardiac death. This list goes on and on. Do you really think it's safe to ignore this risk?
Now that you mention it Jay, I think my usual climbing team is very prone to threats from schizophrenia and other mental illness, but then again maybe that is the reason we are hanging off this cliff in the first place.
Jeff
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fletussanguine
Aug 6, 2004, 5:49 AM
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Lol. Wow, I didn't realize what an dumbass my post made me look like until I saw it in quotes. The diabetes thing...yeah. Anyway, I personally wouldn't worry about the back up belay, because hell...worring about that kinda stuff takes most of the fun out of climbing. I was just trying to prove the point that if the guy want a back up belay, it's not stupid, because a backup couldn't ever really hurt you, and if it makes him more comfortable...it's not a bad thing.
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swede
Aug 6, 2004, 11:33 AM
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I have putting some thought into this for three reasons:
1) I do sometimes climb with a guy with serious diabetes.
2) I often take people who hasn´t seen a rope to try climbing and it´s to boring to only belay, so.....
3) Many relatively new climbers tend to not understand the forces involved in catching a (even short) lead fall - which mean that they are thrown off balance and might end up crashing into the rock.
My imperfect solution, which I want more experienced climbers to critic, is to combine the ATC with a body belay. That is:
1) Belay as you normally do with your ATC.
2) Put the rope coming from the ATC around your back and let it run through the belaying carabiner.
I do not know if the braking force is enough, since since testing this belay method probably will hurt a lot.
The backside of the method (supposing it works) is that my left hand often will have to feed the rope through the carabiner and that I therefore can´t feel what the climber is doing as good as normal. It also takes some attention off the climber of course.
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wormly81
Aug 6, 2004, 8:07 PM
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If you climb with a partner who has diabetes then you should be making sure he/she is fine BEFORE climbing. They should alert you immediately if they are not feeling well. Backing up a belay is not a viable answer for those concerns.
When teaching someone to belay its not fair to give them a more complicated system to learn just because you are not comfortable with their belay. If you arent comfortable that they know how to belay properly then they shouldn't be belaying. Take your time to teach them how to belay properly; a second person backing them up is usually par for the course. DO NOT PUT YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE WITH SOME HALFASSED SYSTEM TO BACK UP AN INCOMPETENT BELAYER!
The reason I have been so active in this discussion is because I see this information being used improperly by inexperienced climbers. There is no good to be found in discussing improper belay techniques.
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drector
Aug 6, 2004, 8:25 PM
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Belay with a grigri? The device is the backup.
I don't but it solves the dead belayer issue.
Dave
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gds
Aug 6, 2004, 8:38 PM
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Curt gave the right answer! It isn't worth worrying about.
If you're really worried about this stuff you're better off not climbing.
There are a million "what ifs" and if you take the time to "solve" all of them you'll never have any time to climb.
I'll say that with an experienced, competent belayer I have never worrid about this at all. Too much important stuff upon which to focus.
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dgkula
Aug 9, 2004, 8:58 PM
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Ok folks. Keep in mind, I'm not a guide or a pro.
If I were leading (trad) and something unfortunately rendered my belayer unconscious or otherwise incapable of belaying, I would build and anchor, tie a figure eight on a bight in the lead rope close to my tie-in, clip into the anchor with a sling girth hitched to my belay loop, clip the fig 8 on bight to the anchor, untie from the lead rope, get on rap, unclip the sling and rap down to the belayer, cleaning the gear as I went.
Hopefully this would maximize the amount of rope I would have available to deal with whatever rescue situation I had on my hands (i.e. I would cut the rope at the bottom of the rap to free it with the anchor if necessary).
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norushnomore
Aug 10, 2004, 9:57 AM
Post #42 of 50
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Registered: Nov 4, 2002
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I did have belayer pass out on me.
My belayer took a very nasty lead fall and hit a ledge. After building a quick station, bringing me up, she was in shock and some pain but otherwise looked fine.
We decided to finish our climb (were 4 pitches off the ground and half a pitch from the top). I started climbing, about 20 feet up after calling to watch me and not getting a confirmation I found that she was out hanging off the station by her tie-in.
I would say that the chances are quite high that your belayer might black out. A guy I know almost passed out climbing east buttress of el cap few weeks ago while belaying as well.
Well in my case, TRE saved the day. I pulled hard on the rope so it locked in. I already had a cam at the waist level so I simply lowered onto it keeping the load on the rope and keeping it locked. Long story short I lowered back to my belayer after building a quick station.
Couple slaps and a bit of shaking and she was back. We rappelled down eventually: I lowered her down full rope length to a large ledge and then to the ground. As we found out later she had a fractured heel and apparently placing a weight onto it while belaying produced a pain shock that made her lose consciousness.
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far_east_climber
Aug 10, 2004, 1:38 PM
Post #43 of 50
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Registered: Sep 30, 2003
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I guess you could do some daisy chain knots on the free end so if your belaying failed, the knot may suck up against your device. When the knot does come along your way, you would simply just have to give a light tug and you could carry on belaying. I don't think it's necessary though. Are you backing up yourself in your belaying (because you think you aren't skilled enough?) or are you wanting to back up the actual device/belay biner? Eitherway, do what makes you feel comfortable or your partner.
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dgkula
Aug 10, 2004, 2:23 PM
Post #44 of 50
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Registered: May 6, 2004
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If I was leading either sport or trad I would not want knots in the free end of the rope, downstream from the belay device. Imagine trying a desparate clip or trying to pull through a crux, only to hear "Hey, wait a minute, I need to untie one of these knots."
Maybe a better solution is a GriGri if you are really concerned about the control of the belay end of the rope.
Just MHO.
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dutyje
Aug 10, 2004, 2:48 PM
Post #45 of 50
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I like replying to dumb topics instead of working.
If you want a backup for an inattentive belayer:
Have your belayer loop the slack around his neck. If he's not paying attention, he'll be hung :)
If you're worried about an unconscious partner, try this:
Once your partner is sound asleep, clip to your last piece of pro. Rig your ATC, unclip from the pro, lower yourself to the belay, and wake up said partner.
If you're worried about your partner being hit by debris from your fall, make him wear a helmet. I actually always require my belayer to wear a helmet. It makes me feel more comfortable. Also, try not to rip the rock to pieces while you're climbing, it makes the route harder for the next climber.
If you're worried about missile strikes or chemical attacks while you're in the middle of a climb, don't oppress people or discriminate against them for their race, religion, or culture. Make it abundantly clear that you are an advocate of world peace, and that you maintain politically and religiously neutral stances on any sensitive issues. This will minimize your chances of becoming a target when you're trying to send that 5.12.
If you're worried about a natural disaster, be sure to check out your local climbing gym or one of the subpar climbing video games available on-line. Try not to boulder in trailer parks, as these are almost always hit by tornadoes. Make sure your gym is not in a flood zone, and check the weather forecast for any potentially frightening storms that might distract both you and your belayer simultaneously. If you're climbing in California, move, because earthquakes will surely present a problem.
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j_ung
Aug 10, 2004, 2:49 PM
Post #46 of 50
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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The belay is the back up and there is no substitute for competency. Regarding the unconcious belayer in the example above, it was competency that saved the day, not some ill-conceived back up.
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jt512
Aug 10, 2004, 7:22 PM
Post #47 of 50
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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In reply to: If you want a backup for an inattentive belayer: Have your belayer loop the slack around his neck. If he's not paying attention, he'll be hung :)
Best of Rockclimbing.com nomination.
-Jay
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j_ung
Aug 10, 2004, 7:31 PM
Post #48 of 50
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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In reply to: I like replying to dumb topics instead of working. If you want a backup for an inattentive belayer: Have your belayer loop the slack around his neck. If he's not paying attention, he'll be hung :) If you're worried about an unconscious partner, try this: Once your partner is sound asleep, clip to your last piece of pro. Rig your ATC, unclip from the pro, lower yourself to the belay, and wake up said partner. If you're worried about your partner being hit by debris from your fall, make him wear a helmet. I actually always require my belayer to wear a helmet. It makes me feel more comfortable. Also, try not to rip the rock to pieces while you're climbing, it makes the route harder for the next climber. If you're worried about missile strikes or chemical attacks while you're in the middle of a climb, don't oppress people or discriminate against them for their race, religion, or culture. Make it abundantly clear that you are an advocate of world peace, and that you maintain politically and religiously neutral stances on any sensitive issues. This will minimize your chances of becoming a target when you're trying to send that 5.12. If you're worried about a natural disaster, be sure to check out your local climbing gym or one of the subpar climbing video games available on-line. Try not to boulder in trailer parks, as these are almost always hit by tornadoes. Make sure your gym is not in a flood zone, and check the weather forecast for any potentially frightening storms that might distract both you and your belayer simultaneously. If you're climbing in California, move, because earthquakes will surely present a problem.
S2
It would have been higher, but it was obviously unintentional.
:P
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shorty
Aug 10, 2004, 8:46 PM
Post #49 of 50
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Registered: Apr 28, 2003
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OK, let's go high tech. Have the leader wear a full-body air bag suit, similar in concept to the ones used for Mars Rover landings. So if the belayer breaks wind, becomes asphyxiated from the stench, and bites the rope in half from rigor mortis, the leader can:
- jump away from the rock face
- pull the ripcord to inflate the air bags
- bounce down the route in amusement park ride style
Oh, you say, what if the one or more of the air bags don't inflate? Simple -- just wear a second suit and carry a cylinder of compressed air for backup. Only one downside: this ensemble would reduce even Tommy Caldwell to climbing 5.2. Well, maybe 5.2+.
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deleted
Deleted
Aug 10, 2004, 11:58 PM
Post #50 of 50
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shorty --
please don't tell anyone i'm asking this, but ...
when you're climbing, you mean i'm supposed to [i:3c93e54a7a]hold the rope[/i:3c93e54a7a]!!??
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