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bluevan
Feb 2, 2005, 3:49 PM
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I have been using Nalgene's for years and just found out from a friend how dagerous the leaching chemicals from these bottles can be. Not believing this was actually true I did a little web surfing and found a bunch of sites that actually back up this claim. Apparently when you heat Nalgene bottles up with hot water or leave them exposed to extreme heat they leach out chemicals that actually act as hormone disruptors.
I was sad to find this out because I loved using these bottles. Their weight to storage ratio is awesome. But for now I have switched to using stainless steel water containers until a safer plastic is made. A little extra weight when going into the back country but for hiking into your local crag the weight difference really dosen't matter.
I am just posting this to inform the community because I know most of us climbers have serveral Nalgene's we use all the time. Please do your own research and decide for yourselves. Below is a quote I got from one website about actual testing that has been done.
-peace
"Polycarbonate plastics, those in the no. 7 bottle, contain bisphenol-A, a known hormone disruptor which can dissolve into water. This is no small matter, since hormone disruptors are chemicals that interfere with the way hormones guide fetal development and later growth. As reported in Current Biology April 1, 2003, bisphenol-A exposure in pregnant mice resulted in errors in fetal cell division, though researchers caution that the same may not happen in humans. In fact, the most popular water bottle sold at REI is a Nalgene bottle made of the polycarbonate Lexan. According to the Our Stolen Future website, Lexan may be chemically different from standard polycarbonate plastic and less subject to leaching, though they have no evidence for this. Leaching of bisphenol-A increases with the plastic's age and when subject to heat."
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usmc_2tothetop
Feb 2, 2005, 4:01 PM
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Wow dude.....thanks for the insight.
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dingus
Feb 2, 2005, 4:01 PM
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Lexan is the hard variety of Nalgene bottles isn't it? The colored bottles if you will. I positively HATE those bottles since dropping my sole water container at the base of Gray Eagle Dome on a hot day. It shattered. I would have wept but I could not afford it!
I haven't even pissed in one since.
If its the soft shell model, I don't use those all that much anymore either. Great for mixing gatorade powder and the like, bit for much of my normal water use. Now I mostly use plastic water bottles and carry them out or melt them down when I'm done with em.
Cheers and thanks for the post
DMT
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quickclips
Feb 2, 2005, 4:51 PM
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Melt them down?!?!?! Way to try and minimally invasive.
Thanks for the input on not heating them.
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crackrn
Feb 2, 2005, 4:57 PM
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What constitutes extreme heat (note: I did NOT take the time to read every link Nalgene posted on their website so if the info was there, my bad.)? Is a summer day at Joshua Tree considered extreme? Or is it merely the act of heating water over a stove/fire?
I wonder if the hot water of a dishwasher could have an effect as well....
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petsfed
Feb 2, 2005, 5:09 PM
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Meh, I think I'll take my chances.
Anybody want a mountain dew?
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dynosore
Feb 2, 2005, 5:19 PM
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This is another bogus study. Unless you drink boiling water from your nalgene every day, I wouldn't sweat it. I work in the plastic industry and it's a fact that all plastics are going to leach various chemicals under the right conditions. It's the amount and the chemical that matter. Bis-A is not particularly toxic, especially in the concentrations you would get from this type of exposure. Your acidic pop in a plastic bottle probably leaches more out..and it doesn't harm you, or Mt. Dew would have done me in years ago.
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sactownclimber
Feb 2, 2005, 5:27 PM
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In reply to: Not believing this was actually true I did a little web surfing and found a bunch of sites that actually back up this claim.
If it's on the internet it must be true . . .
. . . are you picking up the sarcasm? Cause I'm laying it on pretty thick.
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dingus
Feb 2, 2005, 5:35 PM
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In reply to: Meh, I think I'll take my chances. Anybody want a mountain dew?
Whoa man, you like to live dangerously!
The last wilderness camp I attended (its been a while to my shame) I reached camp late. After downing several of the beers I labored to transport I nugged a bowl, ate an accompanying box of crackerjack, then cooked up some righteous tacos with fresh grilled chicken, real salsa, wilderness onions we found growing nearby and lots of melted cheese, all done directly over the cancer inducing flames of a wood fire. After dinner I indulged in a quart of industrial strength gatoritas my partner mixed up 'just for me' and retired to bed shortly there after.
Around midnight I woke up cotton mouthed and so took a drink from my partner's lexan bottle. Head spins were first. The projectile vomiting commenced shortly thereafter, lol!
That fucking lexan!
DMT
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shakylegs
Feb 2, 2005, 5:47 PM
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In reply to: Around midnight I woke up cotton mouthed and so took a drink from my partner's lexan bottle. Head spins were first. The projectile vomiting commenced shortly thereafter, lol! That fucking lexan! DMT
Well, that's your problem right there. Methinks you picked up his pee bottle.
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wonderwoman
Feb 2, 2005, 5:55 PM
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My friend just went to the American Public Health Assn. conference where she attended a seminar on the links between low level exposures to Bisphenol-A and childhood obesity. The worst leaching plastic is PVC which leaches phthalates that are known reproductive and developmental toxins and suspected human carcinogens.
In reply to: Anybody want a mountain dew?
FYI - Bisphenal-A is in all those soda bottles, too. And if mountain dew is your caffinated beverage of choice, you're drinking mercury, too (no wonder I'm so stoopid)
Drink up everybody!!
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dingus
Feb 2, 2005, 6:04 PM
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It was 6 months before Brutus found the compassion to tell me the significance of the YELLOW lexan bottle, lol!
DMT
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wlderdude
Feb 2, 2005, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: The worst leaching plastic is PVC which leaches phthalates that are known reproductive and developmental toxins and suspected human carcinogens. FYI - Bisphenal-A is in all those soda bottles, too. And if mountain dew is your caffinated beverage of choice, you're drinking mercury, too (no wonder I'm so stoopid) Drink up everybody!!
If this is true, I think the Nalgene bottles are much less of a worry.
Next, I'll bet you are going to tell me drinking from the hose is going to kill me.
Well, I will take my chances with the plastic bottles. These chemicals pose a much lower health risk than dehydration.
I am not going to lug glass or stainless bottles around.
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overlord
Feb 2, 2005, 6:20 PM
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what kind of heat are talking about here. like a hot day inside the car heat, boiling water heat, ccoking over the fire heat or blow torch heat????
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speedywon
Feb 2, 2005, 6:22 PM
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Well, I will take my chances with the plastic bottles. These chemicals pose a much lower health risk than dehydration.
I am not going to lug glass or stainless bottles around.
Bingo, I'd stop taking the Nalgene to work every day (replaced it with a stainless steel coffee mug, etc), but on hikes or climbing trips where there are no other (practical) alternatives you are far better taking in a few plastic toxins than getting dehydrated. Besides, its not like you aren't going to put worse things in your body at the local pub after the climb.
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campo
Feb 2, 2005, 6:30 PM
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Ide heard rumors of this a while ago....and to this day I still cherish my nalgene, and probably wont ever put it down.
As it has been already said, these chemicals are present in alot of plastics...so Im not really worried about it.
Plus...anyone who lives in an suburban and urban area is inhaling at least 10X more toxins on a daily basis than I am at my rural (Very rural :D) cabin drinking out of my nalgene.....
Everything kills you nowadays...Its all a matter of survival of the fittest at this point :lol:
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wingnut
Feb 2, 2005, 7:03 PM
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you're probably right.
*sigh* what the world is coming too...
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wonderwoman
Feb 2, 2005, 7:15 PM
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In reply to: Its all a matter of survival of the fittest at this point :lol:
In a world of reduced sperm counts, erectile dysfunction and endometriosis, I totally agree. For a long time I have believe that the human race is going to make itself sterile from exposure to all this crap. Thank goodness for modern invitro-science and viagra! :P
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fanederhand
Feb 2, 2005, 7:20 PM
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In reply to: I have been using Nalgene's for years and just found out from a friend how dagerous the leaching chemicals from these bottles can be. ... I am just posting this to inform the community Thanks for that!-peace "Polycarbonate plastics, those in the no. 7 bottle, contain bisphenol-A, a known hormone disruptor which can dissolve into water. This is no small matter, since hormone disruptors are chemicals that interfere with the way hormones guide fetal development and later growth. As reported in Current Biology April 1, 2003, bisphenol-A exposure in pregnant mice resulted in errors in fetal cell division, though researchers caution that the same may not happen in humans. In fact, the most popular water bottle sold at REI is a Nalgene bottle made of the polycarbonate Lexan. According to the Our Stolen Future website, Lexan may be chemically different from standard polycarbonate plastic and less subject to leaching, though they have no evidence for this. Leaching of bisphenol-A increases with the plastic's age and when subject to heat."
NOt enough data to make a good decision about this. What is the concentration in a quart of liquid if you put 212 Deg f water in it ... say after 1 hour. Are there worse chemicals that are leached out? Lexan leaches way less that the other plastic bottles. Those steel bottles use plastic tops they will leach too. But you are right, heat will cause a very very small amount to leach. Will have to check this out because I put hot water in my lexal bottle for many years.
Lastly ... most climbers consume enough beer that I dought you would ever see the health effects of bisphenol-A because they would be way overshadowed by the health effects due to the beer. And if you are a climber that smokes (weed or tobacco i dont care) ... hey ... heat all the lexan bottles you want it wont make any difference to your health.
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xayamongkiing
Feb 2, 2005, 8:05 PM
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I think BREATHING is probably just as dangerous as drinking from a Nalgene bottle. Besides, I love my bottle!
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xayamongkiing
Feb 2, 2005, 8:06 PM
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I think BREATHING is probably just as dangerous as drinking from a Nalgene bottle these days. What is the world coming to? WE'RE ALL GONNA' DIE!!
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mrmons
Feb 2, 2005, 8:18 PM
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I have my Nalgene sitting right here next to me and it's very offended by all this talk. He's always held whatever I needed and always keeps it cold for as long as it could. Viva Nalgene!!!
In all seriousness, there are so many other things to worry about than this. Think about a rock the size of Texas traveling at unbelievable speeds, screaming through the Earth's atmosphere, slamming into the Atlantic ocean, flash boiling millions of gallons of sea water and basically ending all life on this little mud ball. Plus, a very small percentage of the sky is being searched for these killers.
Anyone thirsty? :roll:
Mr. Mons :twisted:
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shakylegs
Feb 2, 2005, 8:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Its all a matter of survival of the fittest at this point :lol: In a world of reduced sperm counts, erectile dysfunction and endometriosis, I totally agree. For a long time I have believe that the human race is going to make itself sterile from exposure to all this crap. Thank goodness for modern invitro-science and viagra! :P
is there something about blueeyedclimber that you're not telling us?
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iltripp
Feb 2, 2005, 8:32 PM
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This thread is full of misinformation.
1) Certain plastics do leach chemicals. PVC can leach dangerous pthalates, Polycarbonate (lexan) leaches BPA. These are facts. However, the danger of BPA to humans at these concentrations is not proven yet. The study mentioned in the original post found that mice were experiencing birth defects from the BPA leached into their water after the containers were cleaned with high temperature and heavy detergents. Does this mean the same danger is there for humans? Possibly, but that is yet to be determined. A similar study was done with rats that did not show the same results. Unfortunately, the methodology of that study was criticized (don't remember why), so the verdict is still out.
2) BPA is a constituent chemical in the monomer that makes polycarbonate, normally known as lexan. The nalgene bottles containing polycarbonate are the very hard colored ones. The old-style soft Nalgenes are made with either Polyethylene or polypropylene. Neither of these contain or leach BPA, so they should be completely safe
3) Many people have stated that soda bottles also leach BPA. Since soda bottles are not, to my knowledge, made out of polycarbonate, this is completely false. I belive most soda bottles are made out of polyethtylene terephthalate (which is basically polyester).
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