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Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 12:08 PM
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clarkson and top gear
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Similarly, he offended Americans by removing the map of the USA and renaming the resultant space the 'South Canada Sea'.

:lol:

terrific.

No offense to the americans that read this but I thought the concept was hilarious!


Partner tradman


Nov 1, 2006, 12:16 PM
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You should hear what he has to say about american cars.

Now that really will offend americans!

:wink:


Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 12:36 PM
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You should hear what he has to say about american cars.

Now that really will offend americans!

:wink:

i know!!! :lol:

is everyone on your little island like this??!!!


:D


Partner tradman


Nov 1, 2006, 12:51 PM
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You mean, are they incredibly snobbish about european cars?

Too right!

Top Gear makes a point of reviewing (and slating) seriously rubbish US cars like the Dodge Caliber but pretty much avoids nice stuff like the Corvette Z06.

Makes us feel all warm and cosy by avoiding the real truth - that we're bizarrely performance-obssessed and our cars are impractical, unbelievably expensive and frankly quite dull for the most part.

:wink:


charley


Nov 1, 2006, 1:18 PM
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You should hear what he has to say about american cars.

Now that really will offend americans!

:wink:

What does he have to say about canadian cars? :?: Oh, you don't have any. You just make american cars up there,eh. :lol:


Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 1:25 PM
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You should hear what he has to say about american cars.

Now that really will offend americans!

:wink:

What does he have to say about canadian cars? :?: Oh, you don't have any. You just make american cars up there,eh. :lol:

we make some japanese cars, too.

but it doesn't matter where the american cars are made, they are still shit, with some exceptions.



PostPosted: 01 Nov 2006 12:51 Post subject: Re: clarkson and top gear
You mean, are they incredibly snobbish about european cars?

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Too right!

Top Gear makes a point of reviewing (and slating) seriously rubbish US cars like the Dodge Caliber but pretty much avoids nice stuff like the Corvette Z06.

Makes us feel all warm and cosy by avoiding the real truth - that we're bizarrely performance-obssessed and our cars are impractical, unbelievably expensive and frankly quite dull for the most part.

Lotus seems to make some nice cars. TVR was british, yes??? russian owned, before they went under??

Dodge caliber is just plain terrible. My girlfriends father won one in a contest, and he wants to keep it. But it's just balls. ugly, no boot, no power, no handling. why the hell would someone buy one of those??? Oh, wait, it has a beer cooler in the glove box..... :roll:

And top gear did, in fact, no avoid the C06 Vette. They gave it a good review, really! The engine for that car, AFAIK, is built 15 miles from my house! They also liked the new viper, even though they said it was also rubbish. Clarkson said it was a boat but he still wanted one.


lagr01


Nov 1, 2006, 1:45 PM
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I like Top Gear, I have a hard time undestanding what they say sometimes though, they sound like they have a potato stuck in their throats.


Partner tradman


Nov 1, 2006, 2:08 PM
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Lotus seems to make some nice cars. TVR was british, yes??? russian owned, before they went under??

Lotus have a couple of good ones out, the Elise and the Exige. They're go-karts really; amazing handling and a ton of fun but to be absolutely honest they're not that fast.

TVR was british, yes. A friend of mine owned a TVR Griffith 500 - scary powerful cars with no ABS or traction control.

In reply to:
And top gear did, in fact, no avoid the C06 Vette. They gave it a good review, really!

Oh right, sorry. Must have missed the review. Wouldn't mind a blast in one, I haven't had a go yet but they look great!


traddad


Nov 1, 2006, 2:25 PM
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American cars are for shit and the US car companies are going to reap what they planted.
Of course, Chimpy McFlopsweat is going to meet with the US auto makers after the election to address the situation....It's probably going do entail high tariffs or outright embargoes of foreign car companies...rather than actually building a good product that people want.
It is our way.


overlord


Nov 1, 2006, 2:49 PM
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i LOVE that show. IMHO the only car show worht watching.

anyway, wasnt clarkson seriously hurt not that long ago? does this mean that hes alive and kicking again?


Partner tradman


Nov 1, 2006, 2:51 PM
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American cars are for shit and the US car companies are going to reap what they planted.
Of course, Chimpy McFlopsweat is going to meet with the US auto makers after the election to address the situation....It's probably going do entail high tariffs or outright embargoes of foreign car companies...rather than actually building a good product that people want.
It is our way.

I'm not so sure.

I've found discussions about cars here very interesting. Europeans as a general rule just look for different things in their cars to americans.

Europeans are very performance obssessed. The first thing about a car after make and model of car that someone will ask is what size of engine it has, how fast it does 0-60 and what its top speed is. Economy and price are a distant afterthought.

Americans seem size-obssessed. From what I've seen here and on the web in ads etc, big is good in American cars. Big trucks with plenty of setas, beer coolers, TVs, playstations, all that.

But in both cases, its just a case of good ideas taken to a high pitch of impracticality. Good performance does make a car pleasant to drive: it makes overtaking easier, makes the car safer at normal speeds, improves cornering and just makes it more fun to drive the beast. But do I really need a car which can do 0-60 in 4 seconds and break 180mph, in a country where the highest speed limit is 70?

Similarly, a big car makes getting your family around easy, holds your climbing gear without cramming (and believe me, european cars are seriously inconvenient when a big expedition is on) and makes being in it comfortable and relaxing. But do we really need a hummer so big we can park other cars underneath it?

We live in affluent societies. We have a habit of doing what we like more than is good for us. It's only when the doc says we have to slim down and live lean for our own health that we listen.


Partner tradman


Nov 1, 2006, 2:54 PM
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i LOVE that show. IMHO the only car show worht watching.

anyway, wasnt clarkson seriously hurt not that long ago? does this mean that hes alive and kicking again?

That wasn't Clarkson, that was Richard Hammond, his co-presenter on the show. Crashed a jet-powered dragster at 300mph. He's much better now, but you know what it's like after a close call!


Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 3:14 PM
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I like Top Gear, I have a hard time undestanding what they say sometimes though, they sound like they have a potato stuck in their throats.

yeah, it takes some time to get the accent, i guess.


Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 3:19 PM
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Lotus seems to make some nice cars. TVR was british, yes??? russian owned, before they went under??

Lotus have a couple of good ones out, the Elise and the Exige. They're go-karts really; amazing handling and a ton of fun but to be absolutely honest they're not that fast.

TVR was british, yes. A friend of mine owned a TVR Griffith 500 - scary powerful cars with no ABS or traction control.

In reply to:
And top gear did, in fact, no avoid the C06 Vette. They gave it a good review, really!

Oh right, sorry. Must have missed the review. Wouldn't mind a blast in one, I haven't had a go yet but they look great!

I agree about lotus being go karts. I wish i could drive one, though. And no, they aren't fast as in american fast - straight line fast. But who cares when you can corner!!!???

TVR's do look scary on all accounts! that sagaris is supposed to be good.

In reply to:
American cars are for shit and the US car companies are going to reap what they planted.
Of course, Chimpy McFlopsweat is going to meet with the US auto makers after the election to address the situation....It's probably going do entail high tariffs or outright embargoes of foreign car companies...rather than actually building a good product that people want.
It is our way.

this is true. it's like adding more police to keep people from offending.

I'm sure we could build good cars if we didn't pay autoworkers SO MUCH MONEY to, in some cases, sleep on the job.


traddad


Nov 1, 2006, 3:24 PM
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American cars are for s--- and the US car companies are going to reap what they planted.
Of course, Chimpy McFlopsweat is going to meet with the US auto makers after the election to address the situation....It's probably going do entail high tariffs or outright embargoes of foreign car companies...rather than actually building a good product that people want.
It is our way.

I'm not so sure.

I've found discussions about cars here very interesting. Europeans as a general rule just look for different things in their cars to americans.

We live in affluent societies. We have a habit of doing what we like more than is good for us. It's only when the doc says we have to slim down and live lean for our own health that we listen.

I think you’re correct in that US cars reflect our dominant culture. To wit: American cars are bloated, overpriced, hazardous to your health, tarted up gas huffers with bolted on accessories that fall apart as soon as they have a few miles on them….Just like the prostitute that stands across the street from where I work.


atg200


Nov 1, 2006, 3:25 PM
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Thankfully the pendulum seems to be swinging the other way with Americans and giant cars now. At a dealership, they'll give you 0% interest and all kinds of gimmicks to get you to buy a bigass SUV, but there is a three month wait list for a Prius - and if you try to haggle you get laughed at.

The car I really don't understand and think is the most stupid vehicle ever made is the Mini. That thing gets the same gas mileage as a Subaru Outback, and it touts fuel efficiency? My Prius gets nearly double the gas mileage the Mini does, is bigger, and is much safer. The Mini and the Hummer are just opposite takes on the same "image is everything" approach to car design.


Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 3:51 PM
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American cars are for s--- and the US car companies are going to reap what they planted.
Of course, Chimpy McFlopsweat is going to meet with the US auto makers after the election to address the situation....It's probably going do entail high tariffs or outright embargoes of foreign car companies...rather than actually building a good product that people want.
It is our way.

I'm not so sure.

I've found discussions about cars here very interesting. Europeans as a general rule just look for different things in their cars to americans.

We live in affluent societies. We have a habit of doing what we like more than is good for us. It's only when the doc says we have to slim down and live lean for our own health that we listen.

I think you’re correct in that US cars reflect our dominant culture. To wit: American cars are bloated, overpriced, hazardous to your health, tarted up gas huffers with bolted on accessories that fall apart as soon as they have a few miles on them….Just like the prostitute that stands across the street from where I work.

it didn't seem to be that way before, though (not that i'm old enough to really know "before") but look at old chev vans. A friend of my dads had one with one MILLION miles on it.
it was a work van. Driven lots daily, and it was fine.

diesel jetta's will get 400000km on them, but what else can you drive like that these days?


robbovius


Nov 1, 2006, 3:55 PM
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I don't find automotive discussions here to be particularly interesting, in that they most often parrot stereotypes and typical prejudices. few converstaions about cars hereabouts show any real depth of understanding of the technologies, actual vehicular dynamics, competitive driving experience, or automotive histories.

blanketing american cars as "shit" or "Seriously rubbish" is absolutist generalized nonsense, as much as anyone claiming that peugeots are all unreliable, or that Lotuses are all fragile (well, maybe all the OLD ones ;-) ) Most people cling to regional and marque-based prejudices about automobiles, with out realizing that right now, we live is a fricken GOLDEN AGE... you fairly can't buy a truly bad car anymore, unless you get something from one of the mainland chinese brands. the things people complain about, and use to denigrate the average car's performance or reliability are such nitsas to be complete non-issues in any meaningful sense.

I mean, I've got a 12 year old Ford Escort Wagon with 170,000+ miles on it, that I paidf $400 for. it starts up every day in all sorts of weather, passes both safety and emissions inspections regularly with only the most basioc maintenance, is easy to work on, runs smoothly, is fundamentally rust free, and is faster, quicker, handles better, and stops harder (even on it's aged suspension bits) than a couple of the "real" sportscars I've owned in the past. exactly how is that "shit"?

it has been my observation that those drivers who complain most about cars having "no power", aren't particularly skilled at competitive driving, and lack any meaningful ability at conservation of momentum in cornering, rather relying on engine power to pull them out after slowing down too much for the corner.

During the several years I competed in autocrossing, I saw all sorts of cars on the grids, american, european, japanese, new, old, boneyard cobble-ups, top-shelf race only specials, everything. It was all good times. I've got some digivids of me competing in my old Z28 some where...VERY good times. Racing karts was ultimately more fun though, because of the greater seat time. got a couple trophies, there, too. even won me a couple heat races!

tradman, I'll definitely agree with you that absolute performance is meaningless on the street. Engine power, and the performance numbers of any particular car are simply statistics that posers can trot out in the usual posturing for dominance.


robbovius


Nov 1, 2006, 4:01 PM
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it didn't seem to be that way before, though (not that i'm old enough to really know "before")

No, you fuckin DON'T know before...cars today are several orders of magnitude better than anything produced up until the just about the late 1980s. trrust me.


In reply to:

but look at old chev vans. A friend of my dads had one with one MILLION miles on it.
it was a work van. Driven lots daily, and it was fine.

diesel jetta's will get 400000km on them, but what else can you drive like that these days?


phhhhht, any fucking car you WANT, american or otherwise. is everyone retarded? in the 1960s, if a car had 50,000 miles on it, that was HIGH mileage, and it was expected to need major repairs soon.

now, pretty much anycar you buy will go 150,000 - 200,000 miles with only ordinary maintnenance.

I'm tellin' ya, we are in an automotve golden age, for real.

the stereotype that american are all driving gas-guzzling SUVs is Bullshit, BTW, and all you've got to do to figure that out is look at the cars driving down the road around you every day.


traddad


Nov 1, 2006, 4:08 PM
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Thankfully the pendulum seems to be swinging the other way with Americans and giant cars now. At a dealership, they'll give you 0% interest and all kinds of gimmicks to get you to buy a bigass SUV, but there is a three month wait list for a Prius - and if you try to haggle you get laughed at.

The car I really don't understand and think is the most stupid vehicle ever made is the Mini. That thing gets the same gas mileage as a Subaru Outback, and it touts fuel efficiency? My Prius gets nearly double the gas mileage the Mini does, is bigger, and is much safer. The Mini and the Hummer are just opposite takes on the same "image is everything" approach to car design.

ATG, You need to do your homework. The 2006 MINI is 4 stars across the board (except for a too small back seat) on the NHTSA ratings. The only area where the 2006 Prius bests it is the back seat. As for gas milage, the Subaru Forrester and Outbacks get 23/28 and the MINI gets 28/36.

The MINI also goes like stink and handles like it’s on rails.


traddad


Nov 1, 2006, 4:26 PM
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the stereotype that american are all driving gas-guzzling SUVs is s---, BTW, and all you've got to do to figure that out is look at the cars driving down the road around you every day.
You obviously do not live in Phoenix, AZ. SUVs and stupidly huge trucks everywhere.
As for quality, I'll give it to you from the mouth of a GM prototype machinist that took early retirement (in a cost cutting measure) a couple years back. He said that the "cost engineers" are running the show now. The bottom line is not how good the car is but the profit margin. GM has cut WAY back on testing (they now run the car 5000 miles and model the rest) and consequently, our GM work trucks are falling apart under us before 100,000 miles. On one we have had to weld the bed 5 times. Brakes, suspension, electrics...we've had trouble with everything.
But hey, nice cup holders, though.


atg200


Nov 1, 2006, 4:28 PM
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the last outback i owned got 32 mpg highway and 28 in town. pretty similar to a mini. you could also nearly put a mini inside of it, and i could drive up 4WD roads in the subaru. you got me on the safety part though.

if they want to market the mini as a quirky image oriented sports car that corners on rails, fine. to market it as a fuel efficient vehicle based on the size is nonsense however, and that is my problem with it.


Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 5:31 PM
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it didn't seem to be that way before, though (not that i'm old enough to really know "before")

No, you f--- DON'T know before...cars today are several orders of magnitude better than anything produced up until the just about the late 1980s. trrust me.


In reply to:

but look at old chev vans. A friend of my dads had one with one MILLION miles on it.
it was a work van. Driven lots daily, and it was fine.

diesel jetta's will get 400000km on them, but what else can you drive like that these days?


phhhhht, any f---ing car you WANT, american or otherwise. is everyone retarded? in the 1960s, if a car had 50,000 miles on it, that was HIGH mileage, and it was expected to need major repairs soon.

now, pretty much anycar you buy will go 150,000 - 200,000 miles with only ordinary maintnenance.

I'm tellin' ya, we are in an automotve golden age, for real.

the stereotype that american are all driving gas-guzzling SUVs is s---, BTW, and all you've got to do to figure that out is look at the cars driving down the road around you every day.

:lol:

i was TALKING ABOUT 1980's cars. I should have specified "before" i guess. hell, almost half the cars from the 80's were before my time.

and yes, i understand that things start going after so many miles or years.

your escort was and is regarded quite highly as cars go. A buddy has the same thing - his escort (had it's suspension given a once over and replaced this and that) outperforms the focus he got with ease (as long as the clutch doesn't explode).


I think my point is that if you were to choose an american car these days over a honda, toyota, or even a hyundai, what would you pick? pontiac G6 or an accord or civic???

hell, even look at american trucks. Chev....ask chossmonkey how his diff sounds.


Partner brent_e


Nov 1, 2006, 5:35 PM
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the last outback i owned got 32 mpg highway and 28 in town. pretty similar to a mini. you could also nearly put a mini inside of it, and i could drive up 4WD roads in the subaru. you got me on the safety part though.

if they want to market the mini as a quirky image oriented sports car that corners on rails, fine. to market it as a fuel efficient vehicle based on the size is nonsense however, and that is my problem with it.


but maybe if you drove the mini like you drive your outback would get you even better mileage in it??

regardless of that, i'd take the damn outback. AWD kicks ass (buddy has an 05 STi....EEEE GAD that thing is fast!!!)

Brent


gritstoner


Nov 2, 2006, 10:45 AM
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the last outback i owned got 32 mpg highway and 28 in town. pretty similar to a mini. you could also nearly put a mini inside of it, and i could drive up 4WD roads in the subaru. you got me on the safety part though.

if they want to market the mini as a quirky image oriented sports car that corners on rails, fine. to market it as a fuel efficient vehicle based on the size is nonsense however, and that is my problem with it.

sorry just got to point this out.
The Mini Cooper and Cooper "S" were sportier versions that were successful as rally cars, winning the Monte Carlo Rally three times.
yep, thats right, you can take the mini off road and it will do fine in most places.

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