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coastal_climber
Nov 22, 2006, 10:27 PM
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Is it acceptable to make trad draws with webbing tied together, or should I buy pre-sewn slings?
>Cam
(This post was edited by coastal_climber on Nov 22, 2006, 10:27 PM)
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jeremy11
Nov 22, 2006, 10:43 PM
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go ahead and tie them.
4mm cord tied with a sheet bend, tautline hitch, or square knot should work great - simple, light, cheap, and easy to untie!!   
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caughtinside
Nov 22, 2006, 11:00 PM
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you can tie them. just be aware that the knot will be bulky, so getting the knot to pull through some smaller biners will be hard.
I have a mix. my tied slings i put over my shoulder, the sewn ones i triple and clip to my harness.
and tying your own is a LOT cheaper. 1.25 vs. 6 bux each.
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shockabuku
Nov 22, 2006, 11:01 PM
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Yep, webbing works fine. Use a water knot, leave some tails; they tend to work loose. There are some old posts in here about it. Look up the beer knot for a more permanent suggestion.
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notch
Nov 22, 2006, 11:56 PM
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3" tails on the water knot and check them often. The knot will slowly work loose with cyclical loading, but they're the right choice.
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coastal_climber
Nov 23, 2006, 3:56 AM
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Ok, thanks for the info, I was wondering if they would work or not. I tied some and I'm waiting for spring to use them. Peace.
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colotopian
Nov 23, 2006, 4:53 AM
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... I recommend using sewn runners. They're nice, really.
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jt512
Nov 23, 2006, 5:09 AM
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In reply to: Is it acceptable to make trad draws with webbing tied together...
No, it is a serious taboo, somewhere between incest and...(almost said the forbidden "P" word).
Jay
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charley
Nov 23, 2006, 1:19 PM
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When I started climbing that is what most of the guys had for slings. It is bulky and much heavier. They work and are safe. The nice light weight sewn runners they have today are much nicer.
My rack is such that I will not put anything more on it because of the weight. I have yet to figure what I don't need. I was with a guy just starting to buy a rack and With the runners and lite biners he had I could prolly cut five pounds off my rack. Then I could buy another set of cams.
Money isn't everything.
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cragmasterp
Nov 23, 2006, 3:58 PM
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Its good to have a few tied slings in case you need to leave one for a rappel anchor in an emergancy.
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sonso45
Nov 23, 2006, 4:58 PM
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I wanna know if Jeremy11 was serious in his knot recommendations. I can't think of a simpler way to tie a runner than the waterknot. I would consider the triple fisherman's if I was bored. Any other knot is unnecessary. Manny
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metalhead
Nov 23, 2006, 6:04 PM
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In reply to: Ok, thanks for the info, I was wondering if they would work or not. I tied some and I'm waiting for spring to use them. Peace.
why dont you wait till spring to tie them, your webbing will get bends in it if knots are in it for that long
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catbird_seat
Nov 23, 2006, 9:56 PM
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In reply to: I wanna know if Jeremy11 was serious in his knot recommendations. I can't think of a simpler way to tie a runner than the waterknot. I would consider the triple fisherman's if I was bored. Any other knot is unnecessary. Manny
My take is that if you are just cragging, get all sewn runners. If you climb in the mountains, bring a few tied runners for rappeling, since you can tie them around trees more easily.
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brent_e
Nov 24, 2006, 6:57 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I wanna know if Jeremy11 was serious in his knot recommendations. I can't think of a simpler way to tie a runner than the waterknot. I would consider the triple fisherman's if I was bored. Any other knot is unnecessary. Manny Of course not, he was just being a wise guy. My take is that if you are just cragging, get all sewn runners. If you climb in the mountains, bring a few tied runners for rappeling, since you can tie them around trees more easily.
or better yet, bring a spool of webbing along!!!!  
i have some tied runners. They are ok, but light sewn ones are really handy. They seem to deploy quicker, so when i'm sketched on that 5.6 i can "take" quicker.
seriously.
But they are CHEAP.
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jeremy11
Nov 24, 2006, 5:47 PM
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yes, obviously (I hope) it was a joke - water knot, beer knot, double fisherman on cord, fig 8 on cord, or sewn.
personally I use cheaper nylon slings for over the shoulder and dyneema for trad draws since they flip out way easier. plus its a good idea to have a few nylon for friction knots if needed since dyneema/spectra is too slippery and melts easily. of course I always carry at least 2 prussik cords anyway... If you wanted to go cheaper yet, go with tied shoulder slings (water knot) and tied 12" draws and secure each end of the draw with a rubber band (cut up a popped bike tube for free rubber bands) so the knot stays put and the biners dont flip around.
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sonso45
Nov 24, 2006, 6:24 PM
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Whew, I do take things a tad too seriously, thanks Jeremy. I also used to put a couple hand sewn stitches of nylon thread on the tails after I pulled the sling tight to further set the knot. This was in response to pulling a sling off my shoulder and having to retie the water knot cause it had loosened from laying about.
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coastal_climber
Nov 24, 2006, 7:14 PM
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I'm not wondering about cheaper, just wether they are safe to use, because you can make pretty much any length of sling. I use a water knot, I haven't heard of anything other knots safe for joining webbing.
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catbird_seat
Nov 25, 2006, 1:26 AM
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You can use a double fisherman to join webbing, but it is very difficult to untie, which is why the water knot is preferred. On occasion I've use the DF when I am rappelling on the sling and leaving it behind.
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tradrenn
Nov 27, 2006, 1:55 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: Is it acceptable to make trad draws with webbing tied together, or should I buy pre-sewn slings?
You can do that using waterknot but, your draws would be super bulky, which royally sucks if you ask me. Don't waist your money and go buy some pre-sewn slings.
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alexmac
Nov 27, 2006, 4:46 AM
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tradrenn wrote: coastal_climber wrote: Is it acceptable to make trad draws with webbing tied together, or should I buy pre-sewn slings? You can do that using waterknot but, your draws would be super bulky, which royally sucks if you ask me. Don't waist your money and go buy some pre-sewn slings.
Ack, I agree with tradreen, lets add some extras.
1) weight saving with pre sewn slings
2) not having to fiddle every few climbs or even each climb to check knots or when placing gear and discovring your knot is not up to snuff and you only have one hand to tie with.
3) rack space conservation that tradreen already mentions.
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shimanilami
Nov 27, 2006, 5:50 AM
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Those new Mammut slings make sweet trad quickdraws. They're so slim, they rack on your harness just like sport draws. (I've got 12, all with Hotwires. Now that's some sweet shit.)
But I always carry a couple of tied runners on multi-pitch climbs. You never know. You may have to thread a hole or leave something behind.
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caughtinside
Nov 27, 2006, 6:42 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: Is it acceptable to make trad draws with webbing tied together, or should I buy pre-sewn slings? >Cam
Seeing as how many have missed the basic point of the question... yes, it is acceptable to tie your own slings.
Some have pointed out the advantages of using sewn slings. Yes, sewn slings are light. yes, sewn slings are less bulky. Yes, most of the slings on my rack are sewn.
But, sewn slings are also more expensive, and you'll be bummed if you have to leave them behind. If you need to bail, it's a lot nicer to have something you can untie and retie around a block or tree or whatever. Also, sooner or later you'll run into an anchor with a bunch of rotten slings on it that you'll want to back up with yours. Much easier to do with tied slings. having a couple is always handy.
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dfoote07
Nov 27, 2006, 7:28 AM
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The mammut ones are great, have a few of them, but with nutrienos. They are even lighter. Give them a try.
Tried draws are safe. I have used them too.
Has anyone used the beer knot for tying draws? It seems to be smoother then the water knot. You can search for it on wikipedia.com - beer knot-
Derek
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alexmac
Nov 27, 2006, 8:53 AM
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[quote "caughtinside
Seeing as how many have missed the basic point of the question... yes, it is acceptable to tie your own slings.
I did not miss the point I was politely pointing out the advantages, as I though the whole idea of tying webbing together was rather dumb.
So you bail and leave gear behind, it sometimes happens. It is not as if your leaving your whole rack of draws and what ever passive or active gear you placed.
The basic point is the self tied slings come loose, what's your life worth ?
Lets say you survive the accident and are in a wheel chair for life, was it really worth saving 100 bucks to live 30 years in a chair making no money ? (I'd rather die actually)
Yes have some good to have some webbing handy on your rack, I carry two , but not for draws.
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alexmac
Nov 27, 2006, 8:55 AM
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shimanilami wrote: Those new Mammut slings make sweet trad quickdraws. They're so slim, they rack on your harness just like sport draws. (I've got 12, all with Hotwires. Now that's some sweet shit.) But I always carry a couple of tied runners on multi-pitch climbs. You never know. You may have to thread a hole or leave something behind.
They are very sweet with helium wire gates. I also carry some extra webbing for just such a purpose.
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