|
wombby
Nov 26, 2006, 6:57 AM
Post #1 of 22
(16770 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 5, 2005
Posts: 2
|
I've ony been able to find one definition for Yo Yo, and this, I feel, is severly lacking.
This is taken from www.chockstone.org:
"Taking repeated falls while attached to a rope. Can also mean yoyoing two pieces of gear up an offwidth crack."
My own understanding is that it is the above, but more encompassing of, say, "sieging" a route where you're continually lowering back down to the start, pulling the rope, then starting up again with the gear still in place. Some might even swap leads.
Am I confusing "siege" with "yo yo"?
Cheers
Mark
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Nov 26, 2006, 9:57 AM
Post #2 of 22
(16743 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
yoyoing is used when you fall on overhanging terrain and want to get back onto the rock. when youre not able to reach the face at the same height, the only sollution is to either go down or up.
well, if you decide to go up (to the upmost piece of pro), you pull yourself up a bit with your hands using the rope. then, as you release the rope, you have the belayer take in the slack your pulling up has created. you do fall a short distance during the release, but a good leader/belayer team can gain height pretty fast using this method.
|
|
|
|
|
socialclimber
Nov 26, 2006, 1:02 PM
Post #3 of 22
(16731 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2001
Posts: 1163
|
The definition I know of is to fall, lower but do not pull the rope. you may also choose to change lead.
|
|
|
|
|
robdotcalm
Nov 26, 2006, 6:12 PM
Post #4 of 22
(16692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1027
|
If the climber falls or otherwise weights the gear, he is lowered to the ground or a safe rest stance. He pulls the rope through the weighted piece to avoid having a top rope and starts climbing again. The ascent, except for this variance, meets the standards of redpoint and in some ways is stricter as it excludes toproping. Until the 1990s, it was the standard for free ascent.
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
Nov 26, 2006, 7:26 PM
Post #5 of 22
(16661 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
This is taken from www.chockstone.org:
"IT Can also mean yoyoing two pieces of gear up an offwidth crack."
I've never, ever heard it used that way before. Just in the lowering between repeats sense.
|
|
|
|
|
eddie_munster
Nov 26, 2006, 11:16 PM
Post #6 of 22
(16622 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 78
|
overlord wrote: yoyoing is used when you fall on overhanging terrain and want to get back onto the rock. when youre not able to reach the face at the same height, the only sollution is to either go down or up. well, if you decide to go up (to the upmost piece of pro), you pull yourself up a bit with your hands using the rope. then, as you release the rope, you have the belayer take in the slack your pulling up has created. you do fall a short distance during the release, but a good leader/belayer team can gain height pretty fast using this method.
this is not really a yo-yo. You are describing "boinking" up a rope while working a route.
A Yo-Yo was a popular mode of ascent, especially amongst trad climbers, in the late 80's - early "90's. When you fall you lower to the ground, but keep the rope going through the last piece so that you don't have to clean the route and re-place your gear on the way back up. This ethic stemmed from traddies of the day disavowing hangdogging. If you fell, you had to lower down. Ground up ethics.
This mode of ascent went by the wayside, as more trad climbers took to hangdogging, and now many hard trad climbs are redpointed. Nobody reports yo-yo's anymore.
(This post was edited by eddie_munster on Nov 26, 2006, 11:18 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
philbox
Moderator
Nov 27, 2006, 12:15 AM
Post #7 of 22
(16606 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 13105
|
Yo-Yo has pretty much been eschewed for pulling the rope and then leaving the gear in place and then doing a subsequent ascent back to your high point then continuing on from there to the top. Gear in on the day is fine for a redpoint but you must positively and absolutely clean your gear for the next days attempt. Leaving trad gear in overnight is simply terribly poor form.
|
|
|
|
|
honus
Nov 27, 2006, 1:09 AM
Post #8 of 22
(16565 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2006
Posts: 33
|
philbox wrote: Gear in on the day is fine for a redpoint but you must positively and absolutely clean your gear for the next days attempt. Leaving trad gear in overnight is simply terribly poor form.
leaving it in at all isn't the greatest style, what difference does leaving it overnight make? i would rather see it all cleaned between tries, or else you're basically doing a traditional climb like a sport climb. people ought to sack up. just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Nov 27, 2006, 8:32 PM
Post #11 of 22
(16419 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
eddie_munster wrote: overlord wrote: yoyoing is used when you fall on overhanging terrain and want to get back onto the rock. when youre not able to reach the face at the same height, the only sollution is to either go down or up. well, if you decide to go up (to the upmost piece of pro), you pull yourself up a bit with your hands using the rope. then, as you release the rope, you have the belayer take in the slack your pulling up has created. you do fall a short distance during the release, but a good leader/belayer team can gain height pretty fast using this method. this is not really a yo-yo. You are describing "boinking" up a rope while working a route.
Yes, I have always heard this described as boinking, not yo-yoing.
|
|
|
|
|
socialclimber
Nov 28, 2006, 1:53 AM
Post #12 of 22
(16388 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2001
Posts: 1163
|
philbox wrote: In reply to: leaving it in at all isn't the greatest style, what difference does leaving it overnight make? i would rather see it all cleaned between tries, or else you're basically doing a traditional climb like a sport climb. people ought to sack up. just my opinion. By and large I agree with you in that it is much better form to clean the route and start again.
Agreed. It all comes down to the style of the day. The first instance of the term Yo-yoing I came across was in Lyn Hills autobiography. She and John Long put up some hard new lines at (I think) Lake Tahoe in the 80's. One in paticular had an overhanging fingertip crack at the crux and Long kept falling there so Lyn got through it by virtue of much smaller fingers among other things. Long finished the route 5.12, somewhere around there, and is attributed FA. Lyn was a no body at the time, "just" Johns girl friend, so she never got a mention. But they yo-yoed it and a new route went up.
From another thread I recall on ethics, if one falls on a trad line, one lowers to the ground or the most practacle place if it's multi pitch, pulls the rope and starts again. as long as one does this, it's considered a clean ascent. In effect, you have some pre placed gear.
I have just seen an exelent DVD called "Set in Stone". It features a Cumbrian, Dave Burkett, climbing in the Peak District in the north of England. As with grit, they also have a strict no bolt ethic. Dave is climbing E8-E9 and thinks nothing of pre placing some gear. It's accepted practice there and for good reason. It's easy to say poor form from the comfort of our arm chairs but seeing what he climbs, and bolting out of the question, It's easy to see the reasoning. The same lines would have the odd bolt and be described as mixed hd they been in NZ. But Dave always admits the pre placed gear. He fully expects at some point to see them go totally free some day. It's telling that of the eight or so E8's and 9's Dave has put up, only three have been repeated. One line is 15 years old and unrepeated.
Bottom line for me is, call it as you have climbed it. No one can take the ascent away from you.
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Nov 28, 2006, 2:30 AM
Post #13 of 22
(16377 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
The standard ethic in the '70s as I experienced it in all the places I climbed was you lower to the belay and pull the rope. We tended to associate "sieging" with longer routes where folks came back again and again to their high point. "Yo-yoing" we typcially associated with folks who fell repeatedly without pulling thier ropes which then often gave way to simply dogging their way up a route.
But not making it up a pitch, pulling the rope, and releading it should not in anyway be considered analogous with "pre-placing pro". A pitch may legitimately end up that way in a ground up ascent after a fall - but that is dramatically different in intent from pre-placing pro - and intent is what it's all about in this case. Falling and pulling the rope means it wasn't a "clean" ascent, whereas pre-placing gear makes it a "sprad" ascent.
In general, no one is leading trad 14b-d/E9's without somehow 'working' the routes solidly in some form or another (TRing, pre-placeing gear, lots of previous dogged ascents, etc.) . It's a remarkable accomplishment no matter how it's done, but I haven't heard of a 'pure' trad ground up, unrehearsed hard 14. And by unrehearsed I don't mean a couple of tries, I mean a lot of goes at a route. But still, watching Trotter on Cobra Crack is a sight to behold...
(This post was edited by healyje on Nov 28, 2006, 2:37 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Nov 28, 2006, 3:38 AM
Post #14 of 22
(16344 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
j_ung wrote: socialclimber wrote: The definition I know of is to fall, lower but do not pull the rope. you may also choose to change lead. That's how I use the term, too.
Yep. That would be a "yo-yo" or siege ascent--same thing. Two trophies for them, I mean.........you know........if we had 'em.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
nzcragrat
Mar 23, 2015, 12:34 AM
Post #15 of 22
(15456 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2005
Posts: 17
|
The addition to this was that if you could down climb back to the ground/belay without weighting the rope the rope could be left clipped through the highest piece.
|
|
|
|
|
dr_feelgood
Mar 23, 2015, 1:22 AM
Post #16 of 22
(15443 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
|
nzcragrat wrote: The addition to this was that if you could down climb back to the ground/belay without weighting the rope the rope could be left clipped through the highest piece.
Use the last poopbag? Tell your partner #YOYO.
Are they lagging behind on the walk-off, as their headlamp dies? Total #YOYO.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Mar 23, 2015, 2:26 PM
Post #17 of 22
(15397 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
dr_feelgood wrote: Are they lagging behind on the walk-off, as their headlamp dies? Total #YOYO.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Mar 23, 2015, 7:38 PM
Post #18 of 22
(15343 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
sungam wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Are they lagging behind on the walk-off, as their headlamp dies? Total #YOYO. Hear this, Burnzy? I SHOULD HAVE JUST LEFT YOU.
There was no place we climbed together when you could have left me. I made it up before you did, and was the last to rap down.
|
|
|
|
|
dr_feelgood
Mar 24, 2015, 1:30 AM
Post #19 of 22
(15317 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
|
sungam wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Are they lagging behind on the walk-off, as their headlamp dies? Total #YOYO. Hear this, Burnzy? I SHOULD HAVE JUST LEFT YOU.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Mar 24, 2015, 9:59 PM
Post #20 of 22
(15244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Gmburns2000 wrote: sungam wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Are they lagging behind on the walk-off, as their headlamp dies? Total #YOYO. Hear this, Burnzy? I SHOULD HAVE JUST LEFT YOU. There was no place we climbed together when you could have left me. I made it up before you did, and was the last to rap down. 
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Mar 25, 2015, 12:43 AM
Post #21 of 22
(15229 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
sungam wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: sungam wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Are they lagging behind on the walk-off, as their headlamp dies? Total #YOYO. Hear this, Burnzy? I SHOULD HAVE JUST LEFT YOU. There was no place we climbed together when you could have left me. I made it up before you did, and was the last to rap down. I was referring to the walk off where you forgot your headlamp.
ah right. yeah, remember that well. the euphoria of getting back to the car only to remember that it wouldn't start.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Mar 26, 2015, 8:49 AM
Post #22 of 22
(15197 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Gmburns2000 wrote: sungam wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: sungam wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: Are they lagging behind on the walk-off, as their headlamp dies? Total #YOYO. Hear this, Burnzy? I SHOULD HAVE JUST LEFT YOU. There was no place we climbed together when you could have left me. I made it up before you did, and was the last to rap down. I was referring to the walk off where you forgot your headlamp. ah right. yeah, remember that well. the euphoria of getting back to the car only to remember that it wouldn't start.
Then the car we tried to wave down for help was all "YOYO BROS" and drove straight past us. Rough.
Then we had to push the car up and down a hill like a yoyo trying to get it to start, and it finally did - am I remembering correctly that we went and had a birthday dinner that night? Man, between the shit anchors, summit, descent in the dark, and car not starting, my emotions that day were up and down like a yoyo!
hahaha, do you see what I did there? l-o-l.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
