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wonderwoman
Jan 19, 2007, 9:23 PM
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chadnsc wrote: kansasclimber wrote: They tell me good job after a hard send and stuff, but i can't just tell that for them.. it just really sucks... Stephen I assume that's what you ment to type..
Or does he mean 'but I can just tell that from them'? Meaning he can tell they are bummed even though they say good job to him.
I'm kind of confused now. It seems that either his friends are comparing themselves to him and feeling inferior. Or he is comparing himself to them, and believes that they must feel bad because they don't climb 5.13, making him feeling superior to his friends.
Either way, people should just climb for themselves and do what they find challenging and enjoyable.
(This post was edited by wonderwoman on Jan 19, 2007, 11:01 PM)
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gochubug
Jan 19, 2007, 9:35 PM
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I love to climb with hot climbers that are light years ahead of me...as long as they will rope gun for me. 
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charley
Jan 19, 2007, 10:04 PM
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Wtf are you talking about. I can take the average high school kid who has never climbed out and teach him to climb on tr. At the end of one or two days he can climb harder routes than I can. It doesn't bother me a bit. I'm happy I showed a kid how to climb. I feel good and so does he.
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shorty
Jan 19, 2007, 11:24 PM
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dynosore wrote: kansasclimber wrote: As far as my 2 friends i am talking about, they truly are good climbers... They climb low to mid 11's. Now i am at about the high 12/low 13 level right now, so its hard for them, becasue if they were climbing with all of the pop. of climbers they would be better than half of them im sure. Ah now I see the point of this thread, you were looking to spray. We're so impressed. Feel better?
- THE GREATEST CLIMBER IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!11111
- The climber that all Colorado dudes & dudettes fear will steal their projects.
- The climber that has totally kicked ass in the climbing epicenter of Colorado, er, I mean the world -- Buena Vista, Colorado.
Lowlife POS wannabe climbers dinking around on lowly 11's should feel privileged to share such hallowed ground.
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caughtinside
Jan 19, 2007, 11:38 PM
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I can relate, Kansasclimber. Except in my case, it's not because my partners are not as GOOD climbers, it is becase it is they are not as GOOD LOOKING.
I hate to say it, but I am just mr. handsome out there, and people have a tough time dealing with it. At first it's cool, they're all psyched to be hanging with such a beautiful specimen as myself, but after awhile they start viewing themselves as dingy and dull, compared to my radiance.
And it's not like I'm trying to be really really good looking either, it just happened, I can't help it.
I know the problem lies with my friends, but I'd like to help them get over it so we can keep climbing together.
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jimo
Jan 19, 2007, 11:49 PM
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Where the hell are you sending 13's? Its Kansas! Gyms don't count, the routes flagged for you. Me thinks you wanted everyone to know how GOOD you are- please
(This post was edited by jimo on Jan 19, 2007, 11:52 PM)
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billcoe_
Jan 20, 2007, 12:02 AM
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kansasclimber wrote: Is there anything i can do??
Be upbeat and offer encouragement.
kansasclimber wrote: Because once i get off of a hard send on some problem or route, the first thing i think of is "crap, that wasnt good for their ego"...... HELP!!! They love climbing, but its hard on their soul.. Stephen
It sounds like one of 2 things is false. Either they do not love climbing, cause even if they were pissed on their failure, they would still be psyched to send (or flail) OR, the feelings you have are yours and they do not really feel this way.
Hey, I've been at it for 36 years and see little kids kicking my ass.
So what?
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sizzlechest
Jan 20, 2007, 12:13 AM
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jimo wrote: Where the hell are you sending 13's? Its Kansas! Gyms don't count, the routes flagged for you. Me thinks you wanted everyone to know how GOOD you are- please
I was wondering the same thing, although i guess the round "hay bails" in the field have an overhanging side! V2, V4 if you are allergic to cut grass....
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sizzlechest
Jan 20, 2007, 12:17 AM
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climbsomething wrote: sizzlechest wrote: Something i always find on this website is if a person says the did their first 5.7-5.10 everyone is like "congratulations, offering encouragement etc." Anytime someone climbs harder and even mentions a grade they are known as a spraylord, i think this is BS. Sorry to hijack the thread but jeez people, lighten up!! You should put some Neosporin on that hook wound inside yer cheek
True, he apparently got me, although in his profile it says he is a fisherman......
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climbsomething
Jan 20, 2007, 12:22 AM
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He's a crafty one, that KC Fisherman... nice!
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on_belay_hombre
Jan 20, 2007, 12:39 AM
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I have a similar problem as your friends and it really (at least for me) has nothing to do what others think of me. I always strive to do my best in anything and in some cases i just cant deliver due to skill or fitness or whatever reason. I love climbing like crazy but in these situations when im between routes sometimes I cant help but feel left behind when my friends move on to the next climb. Its the motivation to stick to the climb and do as much as you can, and be ok with leaving it for next time if you dont finish. Nothings wrong with working on a route that you cant finish the same day (gym or outside) because chances are, after youve had some time to work on it, then take some time away, you'll find you've made a lot of progress when you get back to it. This always surprises me.
Everyone gets frustrated when things just dont seem to work when it feels as though it should. Maybe your friends arent jealous, they just know they are capable of but its not happening right away. Ive always climbed with people better than me and its a great learning experience. Most of the time they were all taller than me by like 6" so I had to do most climbs completely different and it was often frustrating. I had to take it one move at a time and instead of thinking "why cant I do this?" I thought about it as a puzzle and worked it till I got it then moved on, or called it quits for further work later. It helped a lot.
Dont ditch your friends. Maybe help them identify with a style they are good at and they can feel better about. With my friends, im really good a roof problems, another friend is wicked at cracks and another at thin balancy stuff. We each have something to identify with, even if its just a reason to feel better when a problem isnt working out. We all work on everything, but its nice to have a comfort zone of a kind of problem you have confidence in and can maybe give other people tips on.
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kixx
Jan 20, 2007, 1:44 AM
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Be careful here...
Good climbers have a bit of an ego... It's what gets you past the mental tough spots. I think a lot of these posts are reflecting that ego, including the original post. To really be great you need to do a better job keeping this under wraps and behave with a more humble attitude. Please don't drive newer folks away from the sport with this attitude on or off the rock... It damages us all.
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angry
Jan 20, 2007, 2:42 AM
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I only see one possible scenario, that you guys are training for grades and climbing for numbers. I climb to keep me sane and for the passion of it; still, at the end of the climb, I know how hard the route was. Who doesn't. I'm not going to judge you. It reminds me of my swimming days.
I spent 11 years in a swimming pool, day after day after day. Stroke, flip turn, stroke, flip turn, stroke, flip turn, all probably a million times. At the swim meets, I was lucky to place at all. I wasn't fast. New kids would join the team and within a season, they were faster. Idiots with sloppy strokes somehow beating me. And you know what, it's because they had more natural talent as a swimmer than me.
On one hand I was on the team to win, to get the fastest times and to stand on the podium. It never ever happened. Yet, I didn't quit the team. I loved the guys on my team, the friendship, and the mischief. It bothered me that I wasn't speeding up, but it never bothered my that my friends were. I kept on swimming (and losing) because the joy of the hard work and the friends were worth more than a medal.
I've played a lot of sports in my life; triathlon, cycling, running, climbing, baseball, all at a competetive level. I've never been nearly as bad at these as I was at swimming. Still, my years as a swimmer, especially in high school, I remember as the finest years of competition in my life.
Don't be so sure your friends resent your progress.
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ihateslopers
Jan 21, 2007, 9:33 AM
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coming from the guy that is the one who is usually "stomped" (that being me) it doesnt bother me at all if im climbing with someone alot better than me, as long as they arent asses about it, i take the opportunity to observe learn, see if i can find a way to improve my technique, and help on problems from someone better than you is an invaluable benefit.
the only thing that ever bothers me about those situations is that i dont want to hold my friends back if they want to do a more difficult route that i am not yet capable of doing.
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kansasclimber
Jan 22, 2007, 3:55 AM
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sorry i shouldnt have posted grades, and some of you people are right, they do go after it like fish, with hooks in there mouth... I throw one grade out there, and there is a swarm of "fish" all over it!!! I thought it would help the post a litle bit. Forget the numbers, this is a serious post. I just want to help them. I will never leave my firends regardelss, my overall goal would be to help them get better, and for them to help me get better. That, with having fun, to me is what climbing is all about.
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fracture
Jan 22, 2007, 11:11 AM
Post #42 of 51
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kansasclimber wrote: They love climbing, but its hard on their soul..
And ironically, weak climbers seem to be significantly more likely to spew bullshit about how climbing "feeds their soul", or whatever.
Perhaps the best climber is the one with the most karma.
(This post was edited by fracture on Jan 22, 2007, 11:46 AM)
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fracture
Jan 22, 2007, 11:45 AM
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anykineclimb wrote: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
On the one hand, Eleanor can be forgiven for that remark, because she made it before neuroendocrinology (and long before any of the modern brain imaging techniques were available). On the other hand, I suspect she knew that everyone would know (from their own personal experience) that she really knew that it was a total crock of shit. (Even ignoring the brute force method of nonconsensual injection of neurotransmitters or hormones (or whatever) into the bloodstream, I mean.)
Anyway: emotions evolved to serve functional purposes. There is too much machinery there for them to not serve purposes. But interestingly, that purpose can often involve the deliberate cessation of higher-level reflective decision-making and control---deliberate removal of the ability to "consent". Ironically the exact opposite of what that painfully omnipresent quote is trying to suggest, and furthermore: it's not a bug, it's a feature.
The concept is called a paradoxical strategy. Often, the best way to win at a game is to adopt a strategy that reduces your control, while making sure the opponent(s) in the game are aware of it. A common example is the Doomsday Machine strategy from the (excellent) movie Dr. Strangelove (if the US nukes Russia, the machine automatically destroys the whole world, and there's no way to override it). But as Strangelove exclaims at one point in the move, "Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost if you keep it a secret!" The reason the Doomsday Machine is a good strategy, is because your opponent knows you can't stop it, even though you will possibly do harm to yourself in order to do harm to them. This concept is useful for understanding certain emotional behavior (such as violent rage, regret or guilt).
Er. What is this thread about again?
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fracture
Jan 22, 2007, 11:51 AM
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kansasclimber wrote: As far as my 2 friends i am talking about, they truly are good climbers... They climb low to mid 11's.
Subtle. (If it were anyone else, I'd fully bite it. :P)
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mr8615
Jan 22, 2007, 12:13 PM
Post #45 of 51
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fracture wrote: kansasclimber wrote: They love climbing, but its hard on their soul.. And ironically, weak climbers seem to be significantly more likely to spew bullshit about how climbing "feeds their soul", or whatever. Perhaps the best climber is the one with the most karma.
Hey man, I'm a soul climber...
kansasclimber wrote: As far as my 2 friends i am talking about, they truly are good climbers... They climb low to mid 11's.
and since I climb low to mid 11's, that makes me a truly good climber too! Enough of your spew about soul climbers being weak...
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kansasclimber
Jan 22, 2007, 2:26 PM
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this thread is suppose to be about getting partners back on the same page, and climbing again, not about spewing... Im sorry if you guys think I am but i am not... One person said a while back in this post, that "its funny, when anyone mentions grades 5.10 and lower, they are more than happy to say congrats, or help them out with whatever they need." So it seems once 5.11 is out of the bag, all hell breaks loose. Anyways, stop trying to make this post what it is not, a spew-a-thon.
Stephen
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girl_lostInVA
Jan 23, 2007, 6:58 PM
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But I just started climbing about 2 months ago, I am still way down in the grades most of the time (not that grades matter "that" much). I'm still getting on 5.6 - 5.7 mostly that I can complete regularly. I have only been to complete a few 5.8 and 5.9...
The people who I have worked with the few times climbing haven't even really been friends because I'm still meeting people and all of them climb significantly better in the 5.10 - 5.12 range, have been guys who are stronger and they're taller and have more reach.
Sure it's frustrating to me to work with people that far out of my range...but I'm frustrated with myself not them. They've worked hard to get that good, I'm still working and learning.
What makes the difference for me is when the people sometimes do give me tips, advise, they still view my little accomplishments as me doing a good job and usually tell me. The better climbers who are encouraging, put up with my beginner butt or even give me the time to work out a problem while they belay me or give me advise when I ask for it...without making me feel like my accomplishments don't mean anything...those are the people I try to hang around.
Maybe they are just frustrated with themselves, I think we all get that way...and have to work it out. The better climbers who have the patience, give advise when I want it or look like I need it and are encouraging or at least don't laugh at me...
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shanz
Jan 23, 2007, 7:15 PM
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This catch and release???
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Adk
Jan 23, 2007, 11:56 PM
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I've followed this entire thread and I don't have much to say but, I have never felt frustrated with my abilities nor the abilities of anyone else as they may affect me.
I love to watch better climbers. I am by no means, due to my lifestyle and geographic area, a 5.10 climber. Close though! LMBO..."It's like a set of stair..I can send it!"
If climbing is about competition in any way for you then maybe you should find other climbers to climb with, who enjoy the extra aggervation.
Most guys I know could care less unless your abilities prohibit moving upward. When this does happen it's best to part ways or just get used to climbing at a lower difficulty level. JM2C
Forgive me if I followed down the wrong path. Think spring!!!
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miademus
Jan 24, 2007, 10:07 AM
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uhhh i just felt 2 month ago the same...and i know dozens who feel the same which is....well let's say unpleasent...
I was beaten by any climber who just came 3 month to this sport,though i am climbing for a year now not regulary though...well i'm over weighted and so on.
But damn ,point is you have to love climbing to remain in this sport, i could barely do a v2 months ago now i can red point v6/7...just becasue i got motivated from the inside,saw some movies and top climbers and whenever someone toped out better then me then i started learning from the person instead of giving out damns and be frustrated...well if that doesn't work then they may have to climb at lower grades, bring them to crags where they'll have fun to climb it and can top the routes, to bring back theire motivation, well you'll do it if your a good friend.
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