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styleboy
Feb 5, 2007, 9:24 AM
Post #51 of 128
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When did I say I could do whatever I want? I simply stated that if someone else takes something that you leave out it is in fact stealing. Thanks for showing just how arrogant you really are..
I hope someone steals your belayer while you're mid-climb because he is a 'blight' on the landscape.
(you should look that word up before you use it.)
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bbirtle
Feb 5, 2007, 12:13 PM
Post #52 of 128
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alexmac wrote: bbirtle wrote: ...An odd piece of gear high on a route with no marks and no reasonable way to return it is the only case that strikes me as ethical to take something that isn't yours. All the rest is just plain theft. Not taking sides , but that sounds like logic of one murder is okay, 100 is not .
I've underlined above the key phrase.
alexmac wrote: If we extend the logic to anything , its wrong to have booty at all period
I would more or less agree!
alexmac wrote: ...if you leave something out, your to blame. If I leave 20 bucks on my desk at work and a cleaner takes it, its my fault...
No, the THIEF is the one to blame. I'm sometimes very absentminded and have lost a lot of gear just to leaving things behind. I accept blame for a ~mistake~ but often times I get the gear back due to the fact that most of the people in the world are honest.
Larry's case is far more clear-cut. If everybody was as unethical as some people on this thread, the world would indeed be an evil place!
(This post was edited by bbirtle on Feb 5, 2007, 12:15 PM)
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c4c
Feb 5, 2007, 1:16 PM
Post #53 of 128
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In reply to: Larry's case is far more clear-cut. If everybody was as unethical as some people on this thread, the world would indeed be an evil place!
I don't know how you can read the news and still come to the conclusion that the world is NOT an evil place!? Man is basically evil which is why we have to lock things up and not leave them laying around. It is getting worse and not better.
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alexmac
Feb 5, 2007, 1:53 PM
Post #54 of 128
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styleboy wrote: When did I say I could do whatever I want? I simply stated that if someone else takes something that you leave out it is in fact stealing. Thanks for showing just how arrogant you really are.. I hope someone steals your belayer while you're mid-climb because he is a 'blight' on the landscape. (you should look that word up before you use it.)
And I am saying if your retarded enough to leave something out in plain view. Try leaving a wallet in the middle of central park and see if its there when you come back.
(This post was edited by alexmac on Feb 5, 2007, 1:53 PM)
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kevinheiss
Feb 5, 2007, 2:22 PM
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Yes I did mean Should NOT leave your gear overnight
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zeke_sf
Feb 5, 2007, 3:01 PM
Post #56 of 128
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areyoumydude wrote: They left random pieces of gear all over the place threw some of it in the canyon and pulled most of the bolts leaving some behind half pulled out.
Hmmm, vandalism, theft, and littering...sounds like a real service to the community. Dumbasses.
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dynosore
Feb 5, 2007, 3:34 PM
Post #57 of 128
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1) It's not ok to steal, even if you're "tempted" geez people
2) take your slackline down when done, no one wants to look at your circus toy
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AngusBeefheart
Feb 5, 2007, 4:17 PM
Post #58 of 128
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I'ma gonna sit here with my rifle and take those damn climbers off of the cliff. They're a blight on the landscape and I'm just cleanin' up the trash.
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ebonezercabbage
Feb 5, 2007, 4:19 PM
Post #59 of 128
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I think that if it was a fixed line that is kept up by some sort of "service", then you can't take it. If you just see some jerk left his gear out for days at a time, its fair game to take.
Did u leave a note saying when ur coming back? Cause you may know that the gear has only been there for a day or two, the but ppl who took it could have thought it was there for much longer. Prime reason you do not leave your gear unattended.
You rolled the dice that no one would see it and take it. You lost your bet with yourself. Sorry, but u got what was coming to you.
Unless i'm missing something.....but even then, oh well.
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joe
Feb 5, 2007, 4:51 PM
Post #60 of 128
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: Dean What-A-Dick-Potter
shut up you fucking crybaby
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moose_droppings
Feb 5, 2007, 5:50 PM
Post #61 of 128
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Taking anything that is not yours and its theft, if it isn't yours, don't take it. Thats reality, and sadly its also a very rose colored outlook of the world we live in.
I personaly think thieves are lazy, and the easier you make it to steal, the higher percentage that it will be stolen.
Its not rocket science, its reality.
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Feb 5, 2007, 5:53 PM)
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dynosore
Feb 5, 2007, 6:01 PM
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Brilliant comparison, really relevant. Shooting people vs. expecting people to pick up after themselves.
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gandolf
Feb 5, 2007, 6:37 PM
Post #63 of 128
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Dynoshore: In reply to: 1) It's not ok to steal, even if you're "tempted" geez people 2) take your slackline down when done, no one wants to look at your circus toy
My thoughts exactly.
If you take something without the intent to give it back to the original owner - it's stealing. (I can't beleive I had to spell that out for some people)
(This post was edited by gandolf on Feb 5, 2007, 6:38 PM)
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roy_hinkley_jr
Feb 5, 2007, 6:41 PM
Post #64 of 128
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Nah, it's only stealing if you keep or sell the gear. Toss it in the dumpster and it's a public service. Slacklining has nothing to do with climbing anyhow so all of this is irrelevant.
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Davey
Feb 5, 2007, 6:44 PM
Post #65 of 128
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I agree that it sounds pretty obvious that it wasn’t just abandoned and therefore it was not booty. But this is the world we live in you need to know the risk you are taking when you leave something some were. Yes it sucks. Cry about it rightfully so and then learn from it. It could have been a park ranger for all you know. Check with the park rangers if you want it back they might have it, just be ready to pay a fine. Plus check if you are allowed to leave something like this up. If not well then no wonder you got it jacked.
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maldaly
Feb 5, 2007, 7:06 PM
Post #66 of 128
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So, all you advocates of slackline thievery, imagine that one day you're up on the Cap and a storm comes in. You rap off, leaving fixed lines so you can get back to your hight point when it clears up. When you go back, the lines and your haul bags are gone...
Is that thievery or public service?
While I'm no big advocate of leaving either highlines or fixed lines around, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two.
Mal
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areyoumydude
Feb 5, 2007, 7:37 PM
Post #68 of 128
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Davey wrote: I agree that it sounds pretty obvious that it wasn’t just abandoned and therefore it was not booty. But this is the world we live in you need to know the risk you are taking when you leave something some were. Yes it sucks. Cry about it rightfully so and then learn from it. It could have been a park ranger for all you know. Check with the park rangers if you want it back they might have it, just be ready to pay a fine. Plus check if you are allowed to leave something like this up. If not well then no wonder you got it jacked.
Like i said before it wasn't a ranger and it is totally legal to set up highlines and leave them up as long as we are using them daily which we were.
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AngusBeefheart
Feb 5, 2007, 7:54 PM
Post #69 of 128
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dynosore wrote: Brilliant comparison, really relevant. Shooting people vs. expecting people to pick up after themselves.
you're not familiar with the concept of parody I see...
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Davey
Feb 5, 2007, 7:57 PM
Post #70 of 128
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areyoumydude wrote: Davey wrote: I agree that it sounds pretty obvious that it wasn’t just abandoned and therefore it was not booty. But this is the world we live in you need to know the risk you are taking when you leave something some were. Yes it sucks. Cry about it rightfully so and then learn from it. It could have been a park ranger for all you know. Check with the park rangers if you want it back they might have it, just be ready to pay a fine. Plus check if you are allowed to leave something like this up. If not well then no wonder you got it jacked. Like i said before it wasn't a ranger and it is totally legal to set up highlines and leave them up as long as we are using them daily which we were.
Then in that case I hope the mo fo falls and dies. next time leave up some old trashed anchors so when he goes to use the stuff it breaks and he gets screwed.
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roy_hinkley_jr
Feb 5, 2007, 9:15 PM
Post #71 of 128
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maldaly wrote: So, all you advocates of slackline thievery, imagine that one day you're up on the Cap and a storm comes in. You rap off, leaving fixed lines so you can get back to your hight point when it clears up. When you go back, the lines and your haul bags are gone... Is that thievery or public service? While I'm no big advocate of leaving either highlines or fixed lines around, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two.
Fixed lines on El Cap are hard to see from the Valley floor. A highline stands out against the sky from many view points and are as ugly as power lines in the wilderness. Sounds like this is just another egotistical Moab newbie who never heard of Monkey Wrenching...the spirit of Ed Abbey lives on.
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lemon_boy
Feb 5, 2007, 9:44 PM
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malcom,
you also have to admit there is a difference between getting weathered off el cap, leaving a few fixed pitches, and getting back on it ASAP (next day) versus the bullshit 'permanently' fixed lines that stain the base of el cap. people think that they are doing a service of some sort by leaving these up. it is a total disservice and a slap in the face to people who are actually COMMITTED to doing the routes(s)
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maldaly
Feb 5, 2007, 9:58 PM
Post #73 of 128
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I should have used a better example than being weathered off. There are lots of fixed ropes for "convenience" purposes. Hell, the standard way to do the Nose is to fix to Sickle, rap off to have dinner and drinks in C4 or Dornans, then really get on the route the next day. Roy, I object to the concept that it's okay to leave a fixed line on El Cap because the tourists probably won't see it but it's not okay to leave a fixed highline in an obscure canyon outside of Moab because a tourist might see it. I'm uncomfortable with either assumption.
Full disclosure here: When we did the Nose we fixed to Sickle, ate dinner at the Broiler Room then got back on the route then next day. Made me feel weird but I got to strut around saying things like "Yeah, I got a few fixed lines up on the Cap and I'm headed back up tomorrow to finish it off".
Mal
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j_ung
Feb 5, 2007, 10:18 PM
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I think I agree with the folks who call this a theft. If you're concerned that somebody else's gear is an eyesore, there are more mature ways to deal with the situation than taking it without leaving word. Same goes for project draws.
Please note that nowhere in this post did I cite my opinion on project draws and highlines being left behind. I only stated that there would be a better way to combat those if you thought they needed it.
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devils_advocate
Feb 5, 2007, 10:26 PM
Post #75 of 128
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j_ung wrote: I think I agree with the folks who call this a theft. If you're concerned that somebody else's gear is an eyesore, there are more mature ways to deal with the situation than taking it without leaving word. Same goes for project draws. Please note that nowhere in this post did I cite my opinion on project draws and highlines being left behind. I only stated that there would be a better way to combat those if you thought they needed it.
Agreed, but I think it stands to state that several of us simply vocalized discontent at leaving a highline up. Nowhere did I, nor a couple others, state that we supported theft. I leave it to Roy to defend his fastidious stance.
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