(Not necessarily responding to climbs4fun, but rather all mods, your post was the last)

I've suggested this before and have been basically ignored. I would appreciate a response whether it be positive or negative:

1) In the Ladies Room, (or perhaps create a separate section), Why not allow the OPs to moderate their own threads? Give them the ability to delete posts that they don't like and/or even ban users from posting to their thread? Mods don't get blamed for censorship that way, and people who don't like whatever have control over their thread.

2) I have frequently seen Mods tell posters to keep off-topic, or ridiculous posts limited to "Community". Well "Ladies Room" IS in "Community", and it's pretty misleading. I've seen users in "Ladies Room" told to take it to "Community". Again "Ladies Room" is IN "Community". Would you please tell people to take it to "CAMPGROUND". It makes it much more clear and I actually believe may solve part of the problem.

3) Failing the above two, how about just moving "Ladies Room" out of "Community" and give it it's own separate section. Why do you want the Ladies Room right next to the most raucous Campground around. And then wonder why raucous men come wandering in? Why do you want to have the most Highly Moderated right next to the Least Moderated? Community implies everyone. Move it to its own special section. I honestly believe if you had Arno's section right next to campground, you would also get a lot of dumbass responders wandering in and saying, "Just. suck it up and climb dudes!" So separate section

Anyway, I respect the choices the mods have made on this site. Even the ones I don't agree with. So I would appreciate a response on this.

in regards to your first point, only the user has control over their post We don't delete posts, they are moved to recycle bin or to the mods and editors forum for discussion.

Secondly, i have supported moving the ladies forum out of community. This is a management decision and they have decided to keep the ladies forum in community.

I sometimes tell users to keep their idiotic remarks to community, sorry for not being more specific, it's an old school mistake because there was never soapbox or campground, just community. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, it has been a bit trying to moderate the ladies room. I guess users don't get it. If you don't have anything relevent to the discussion or just want to be a smartass stay out. I have been recycling the dumbass posts.

Happie, this is not a full time job for any mod. Sometimes i just stop in at rc and check pms or maybe a specific forum. I try to give a cursory view over things in campground. There is no reason that a user can't drop a pm to any mod about any problem post or thread. We're doing our best to catch the crap.

there is a varying opinion, even in the ladies room, pertaining to how much moderation users want. Some want more, some less (i'm talking women users here). I don't want to be a net nanny, but do want to maintain mature discussion in the ladies room. The users are getting very good at self moderation in the ladies room, pointing out smartass users and keeping the discussion back on track.

"Community" vs. "Campground" - Only people who have come to rc.com in the last year would be confused about that...

....which brings us directly to the mention of L/R being next to C/G. When that change occurred, and the crap started getting flung in the L/R, we were vocal about requesting that change. It was rejected.

The compromise was to relocate the entire Community Section from the top of the page to the lower portion.

Dingus' suggestion of filtering out all guys - I'm pretty sure that guy's participation is not the problem, nor do most of the women want to make the forum gender-based for participation. Many guys have great input, and it is welcomed.

But it appears some guys can't help but make lewd, inappropriate comments, and then either play dumb when called on it or genuinely don't get it. Those posters, and how to deal with them, are the "issue."

I think that the best way to handle it is actually to have active moderation in the forum. It shouldn't have to be a "we'll deal with it if you complain" sort of thing. That ends up allowing plenty of time to pass, and more monkeys to join the pile.

Either the admins moderate, or they don't.... The onus is, and should be, on the management of this site to make that distinction and implement it. As it stands, I think the mgmnt would be hard-pressed to say they aren't aware of this recurring issue. While I can certainly understand they may have more pressing things to deal with, the fact remains that a message IS being sent, intentionally or unintentionally, by their slowness/resistance to react.

Which leads us directly to the reason why these guys who continue to act like asses keep coming back. They're aware that the can "get away with it."

My suggestion in number 1 was to create a section where the user (only the Orginal Poster or creator of the thread) can moderate posts in their own thread. So they could delete, responses they didn't like from their own thread. So it's giving Mod powers (plus specific post deleting powers and specific user banning powers) to the users to use only within their own created threads in this new proposed section only.

Is that something you (or any mod) would be interested in proposing to the owners, or not?

Discussions such as the one this thread entails would, I'd think, leave some sort of impression on those who know they are perpetrators(whether they would admit it even to themselves, much less out loud). Perhaps the stance of "Not acceptable," followed up by actions when appropriate, will produce that organic change and allow the Ladies Room to return to a place where a person can actually post without expecting a process of devolution.

The Ladies Room DID have a reason for being created. , and it's the same reason many climbing workshops offer the "women only" intro to rock sessions. It's because there are women who have been conditioned to see themselves as objects. They haven't learned to say "no." They may use their body as a way to garner acceptance. They may never have learned to trust other women, but see them as competitors instead of allies. They may have been abused by men in a way that they have been hard-wired to set themsleves up for more abuse.

It's all in the framing, Mojomonkey. Someone presenting a program will use words that create a positive imagery.....

Why might a woman "be more intimidated to show up at a gym that may be full of guys to try something new that pushes them from their comfort zone and may feel embarassing"?

It's sort of a chicken or the egg first question....

At any rate, in a woman's only session, a woman has a chance to remove obstacles such as a compulsion to be flirty, or act helpless or unintelligent. Or more aptly, the behavior will be intensified for them selves as they fall into the habit, in a setting where it's sort of out of place.... A safe place to deal with the feelings and new situation.

It also provides them with a host of other women, some who may have similar issues, some that have worked through and come out beyond those issues, and others who have totally different ways of handling pressures.

Also a place to meet new friends and climbing partners of the same gender. Especially helpful for the woman who had a b/f show them the ropes, and that has been the only climbing partner they have had.....

And that women do tend to climb more in a balance-oriented way as opposed to using a willfull/get up it attitude.

It's all in the framing, Mojomonkey. Someone presenting a program will use words that create a positive imagery.....

Why might a woman "be more intimidated to show up at a gym that may be full of guys to try something new that pushes them from their comfort zone and may feel embarassing"?

It's sort of a chicken or the egg first question....

At any rate, in a woman's only session, a woman has a chance to remove obstacles such as a compulsion to be flirty, or act helpless or unintelligent. Or more aptly, the behavior will be intensified for them selves as they fall into the habit, in a setting where it's sort of out of place.... A safe place to deal with the feelings and new situation.

It also provides them with a host of other women, some who may have similar issues, some that have worked through and come out beyond those issues, and others who have totally different ways of handling pressures.

Also a place to meet new friends and climbing partners of the same gender. Especially helpful for the woman who had a b/f show them the ropes, and that has been the only climbing partner they have had.....

And that women do tend to climb more in a balance-oriented way as opposed to using a willfull/get up it attitude.

The reason that I think it's sort of not right to require the "make a complaint, we'll act" guideline is that it perpetuates victimization. I know that sounds big - don't get bent out of shape. I'm just using some words to give an idea, so no "lewd post isn't rape" sorts of deflective responses from peanut gallery sorts, please.

Speaking for myself, I have to admit that I don't always know what comments a woman might find offensive. Oh, sure, there are blatant ones, and even a thick skulled nincompoop like myself can figure those out, but I've seen/read complaints over comments that I didn't see as so offensive.

FWIW, there are "obvious" over the line posts in other threads, too, not just LR. But there's also lots of gray areas in those forums, too. Thus, the quandry of the staff: When to draw the line, and where? When I think it's offensive? When the user at whom the comment is directed thinks it's offensive? A simple majority of users? Where/When? That's the hardest question to answer each time I hover my mouse pointer over the "Move thread" button.

Maybe I'm not sensitive to women's issues because I'm not a woman.

So, for me, I'm stuck with the "If you complain, I'll do something about it" mode of moderating threads. To alter things just because *I* find them offensive leads me down a road I don't particularly like.

Bent Gate, I like the idea of giving each OP the power to moderate, in the abstract, but again this has great potential for abuse: Imagine a religion thread where every post that questions the religious views gets sent off to the dumpster by the OP. Not exactly the sort of open discussion environment we want to promote, dig?

I'd also like to point out that although Paolo (slab) was wrong in his post and subsequent defense of it (if only because it became obvious that it had offended a fair number of you ladies) that does not, in any way, give you the right to insult or personally attack him. I would suggest that people who advocate for stronger enforcement should be particularly careful with their words.
-F

(Not necessarily responding to climbs4fun, but rather all mods, your post was the last)

I've suggested this before and have been basically ignored. I would appreciate a response whether it be positive or negative:

1) In the Ladies Room, (or perhaps create a separate section), Why not allow the OPs to moderate their own threads? Give them the ability to delete posts that they don't like and/or even ban users from posting to their thread? Mods don't get blamed for censorship that way, and people who don't like whatever have control over their thread.

2) I have frequently seen Mods tell posters to keep off-topic, or ridiculous posts limited to "Community". Well "Ladies Room" IS in "Community", and it's pretty misleading. I've seen users in "Ladies Room" told to take it to "Community". Again "Ladies Room" is IN "Community". Would you please tell people to take it to "CAMPGROUND". It makes it much more clear and I actually believe may solve part of the problem.

3) Failing the above two, how about just moving "Ladies Room" out of "Community" and give it it's own separate section. Why do you want the Ladies Room right next to the most raucous Campground around. And then wonder why raucous men come wandering in? Why do you want to have the most Highly Moderated right next to the Least Moderated? Community implies everyone. Move it to its own special section. I honestly believe if you had Arno's section right next to campground, you would also get a lot of dumbass responders wandering in and saying, "Just. suck it up and climb dudes!" So separate section

Asshole - So I suppose if you were in a relationship with a woman who has a 12-year old son, and were acting in a caretaker role, and the kid's school had some sort of discussion forum where parents, teachers and students all posted on forums about such things as school sporting events, classroom needs and extra-curricular activites - you'd think it would be okay to post pedophile jokes in that venue?