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tankshild
Aug 14, 2001, 10:22 PM
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in regards to kid partys, why dont you have rotating member nights, like monday and thursday one week and tuesday and friday the next.
or chanel the nights you have kid partys. have a group discount on wensdays, or arange it so the partys in the morning. or somthing like that.
good luck!
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iclimb512s
Sep 9, 2001, 7:48 PM
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i dont knwo how well members only would play off, but you could sorta divide the gym and put th hard leads and roofs and stuff on one side, and themn put the easy stuff on one side.
another idea is to open it to ppublice form like 11 - 6 say, and then make it members only from 6-1. that would be the shit!
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bart
Sep 9, 2001, 8:50 PM
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I am trying to get a climbing gym in my town and I want to help building it, but it won't be mine. I hope they will agree with my idea so the climbers of Sint-Niklaas won't have to 'travel' that far anymore.
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tyraidbp
Sep 26, 2001, 9:42 PM
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I would suggest that you do zero market research, listen to someone who has no idea about climbing/climbers, invest a couple million in building and startup, and sign a contract that completely keeps you from being able to cater to the climbing communtiy. Then, continuously screw your employees and patrons.
No, wait someone else already tried that one. You should start by finding out what kind of costs you will have leasing a place in an industrial park. Find out what people would be willing to pay for a daily fee($18 is too much). Then, once you have looked at those two things, figure out startup costs including wood and holds. Once you have all the numbers, figure what you can make per month, find every source you can to drum up cash, and build. And remember accessibility is key, your customers have to be able to find it, and get in with no hassles. If you want more indepth info, let me know, as the Chicago area is getting ready to see one of the coolest bouldering gyms ever.
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case22
Sep 26, 2001, 10:06 PM
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It costs ALOT of money to build a gym. We have a rich family in town that foot most of the bill. They don't really use it, but it was a good thing for the community. Also, we bought old chunked up tires for the floor, so it would be a little padded. Everything else was too expensive to buy. A good way to keep the holds clean: when you see a student/person doing something wrong, (such as not belaying right, not being safe, etc..) make them clean the holds. That's what we do. But, our people pay by the year, so they're all regulars. We give out 'yellow stickers' and that signifies a half hour of cleaning time. And that's what they suggested, not us.
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k2exp2010
Sep 28, 2001, 7:15 PM
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i'm researching this too. it seems the hardest and most expensive part of this is the insurance. talk to a lawyer or someone else that already owns a gym.
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dean585
Sep 28, 2001, 7:36 PM
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Also talk to a good accountant who deals with small businesses, believe it or not there are a LOT of writeoffs and they can give you a lot of good financial pointers
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jds100
Sep 28, 2001, 9:11 PM
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Climb: first of all, good luck. I think entreprenuers keep communities alive.
I want to direct you to the gym I belong to, Upper Limits in St. Louis. This is the second one for these owners, and they seem to run a very competent business. You seem to have that good sense already, that this will in fact be a business, not just a "dream come true". No business I know of really runs itself.
I don't think the idea of penaliing someone in some public way, such as washing holds, is very good at all, because it risks a significant loss of the sense of good will that a business must have towards its customer base. Upper Limits fines, reluctantly, and makes it known that the fines go into the Access Fund jar, not into Upper Limits revenue.
There is one other climbing gym, and I use the term loosely, in the St. Louis area. His ship was sunk before he got out of the harbor, though, because he was not prepared to do it right from the moment he opened. I mean, he wasn't ready to open when he did, and he never had the resources in place to do it right at any point along the way. This applies to any business, really. Know what business you're getting into; know the competition, locally and broadly and tangentially (in other words, can your climbing gym be marketed to compete with or as an adjunt to other forms of workout gyms?. Know your customers; be able to describe them inside and out, financially, physically, wants & needs, turn-offs, moods, schedule demands, etc. etc. etc. etc. Know your needs, and pay yourself a salary; build that into the business plan; if you plan on living off of 'profit' or revenue, your business plan projections become too subject to variables; your living costs need to be understood specifically and included specifically in the plan.
There are businesses set up specifically to build and advise for climbing gyms; I don't have them at the tip of my tongue, but I've seen them in the climbing mags, and I'm sure they're on the web. These days, climbing gyms seem to NOT be the old plywood-with-holds-attached type, and hopefully as more climbing gyms are built, your costs through a company and/or for materials will be less.
You might consider a gym concept where climbing is the primary attraction, but where there are other workout facilities, as well. In this case, you can get the climbers who might otherwise have to scrimp on membership fees between two different gyms, and, primarily, attract a much broader base of new customers. The downside, of course, is the need for additional space and equipment, but this could be an opportunity to lease out that aspect of the facility to another individual (Not a partnership, just a lease arrangement. Such an arrangement, though, makes it much more complicated to split revenue, and might necessitate opening your books to someone else's accountant. Not a great option, just an option.) If the start-up funds are available, I would think the long-term picture for a broader base facility could be brighter.
I also think the idea about corporate events, team-building, etc., is very good, and could be factored into where you consider locating the gym. At both Upper Limits, they have a seperate space that is used for such events (and the dreaded birthday parties), that is nicely removed enough from the larger rest of the gym, so there is no significant intrusion. They seem to have a tight control on the numbers for the parties, and seem to limit the food aspect: none, I think. The parties and events are held in areas that are built for beginner level activity, anyway, and are planned for non-peak time. The Saturday and Sunday stuff, if it ever happens, must happen well into the later afternoon, early evening, sort of after and before the more regular peak times for climbers.
I also think the idea of a coffe shop is great, but it probably involves another license, and periodic and surprise health inspections, which are not a big deal. Again, common sense cleanliness, and somebody from another coffee shop, that you have been to and liked, can lend some help there. You'll probably need a business licence anyway, so I don't thnk it would be too involved to expand the nature of your proposed business. Some jurisdictions require a health safety course, that is available at community colleges for a cheap price, and a day a week for a few weeks, and maybe even an intense 1 or 2 day class. You get your certificate, and you're done. You or your attorney can check into what's needed. But, it would provide another revenue stream at a good mark-up. You can buy or lease the basic equipment, get used tables and chairs, and coffee is cheap. Get pre-wrapped non-perishable foodstuffs (health bars, cookies, muffins, etc.); use only paper and plastic ware. You could even go without real milk, so you wouldn't need such bulky storage for that. If you offer iced anything, you can just bring in bags of ice, and keep 'em in an ice chest, if you don't want to get an icemaker. The equipment is usually offered, lease or sale, with a service contract available, and that's a good buy. Make sure it includes replacement while yours is being repaired.
I don't know what the climbing gym business is like right now, and what anyone is projecting for its future (I would bet there is a climbing gym association that has this info and advice). It just seems to me that if you have numerous revenue streams that are easily managed -and that's the key- under one roof, you give yourself a better chance of making back your investment.
In general, offer customers value for their dollars. Percieved value is not contained just in your product (the gym facility with its well-lit featured walls and clean holds), but in the manner in which they're treated every time; what they learn as new climbers and how they're taught; the welcome they get everytime when they return; the customer-first orintation of your people.
Whatever you do, climbing gym only, or including other things, do it 100% right, from the very beginning. People automatically give you their trust and confidence; they assume that you know what you're doing. But, if they find out that you don't, you will never get their belief in you back; not ever.
I've been a part of opening and operating numerous small businesses, and I love when it's done right. I hate it so much when I see someone half-assing it, that I almost get angry. It's such an insult to the customers (sometimes my wife and me) who trusted that these people knew what they were doing.
So, good luck. Keep us posted.
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pianomahnn
Sep 29, 2001, 5:25 AM
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tyraidbp...
Have we met before??
BIOTCH!!!!!11
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jds100
Sep 29, 2001, 5:02 PM
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I don't think it's the kids themselves, rather the bad management of the party that's been problematic. Some kids are going to be kids to whatever extent they are allowed to push the edges of the rules, and sometimes the gym personnel aren't equipped to be friendly yet firm in setting up guidelines. I personally have had some great times just stolling over to help a young kid get through some frustration, and get to know a little technique, and tweak the experience with encouragement for next time.
Another thing for the gym owner to consider, is that he may have people paying regularly for their memberships to this gym; does he have a responsibility to make it mostly ammenable to the member's needs, or how much and how often can he compromise the 'normal' environment to allow for special event? I suspect that some gyms have over-done it on the special parties to try to bring in a suddenly much-needed surge of cashflow, rather than taking care of the slower, but steady, revenue from memberships and day visitors.
I think it's really an issue of manageing the situation well, not about the kids personally. I think it's a pretty cold individual who wouldn't want to see some kid beaming at the end of climb.
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fiend
Sep 29, 2001, 5:47 PM
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Exactly, it's about setting some rules for the kids.
Back when I worked at the gym I used to belay kids groups and our policy was that they could try any of the climbs they wanted to (tr only of course). If they were getting in the way of regular climbers then they were moved. If they wanted to boulder in the cave and there were people already in there then they had to wait. Most of the staff kept a reign on the kids and didn't let them disturb the regulars while still giving them an enjoyable experience.
Unfortunately, due to bad management, most of the people that work there now don't watch the kids anymore. They run around in the cave jumping in front of, or climbing over top of other climbers. The regulars hate it and none of the staff seem to care.
I don't see why it's so hard to set rules for kids. Some gyms have the right idea; separate climbs for kids, areas where they can run around and grease and yell and be little brats. (I've worked a lot of kids groups and sadly, yes, the majority are spoiled little @#$!@#$!ers) Most of the kids don't care what they climb anyways, as long as their parents can get a picture at the top.
If a child (and I see this in 1 out of every 60-80 kids that comes in) really gets into it and wants to go further, then arrangements can be made for them to come back with their parents and climb on their own.
The biggest thing you need for running a climbing gym is to be a climber who just happens to own a gym rather than a gym owner who just happens to climb
Keep your employees happy and they'll do a good job, treat them like crap and you'll always be looking for someone to come in to help you when you're shortstaffed (Reid).
Treat your members well. Remember this is a climbing gym, not the pizza party palace which just happens to have a climbing wall. Your members make or break your rep in the climbing community.
Blah, I think I already posted most of this earlier, but it really burns me they way some gyms are run.
You get owners who will tell you that "if I had my way this gym would be just for real climbers aged 18 to 35" (actual quote, from local gym owner, to my 40+yr old mom who climbs more than most of the people at the gym and her also 40+yr old climbing partner) and then turn around and treat their members like garbage.
I'd like to start a gym here, just so I can run it properly and give people a decent place to climb.
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pianomahnn
Sep 29, 2001, 6:21 PM
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Pay me and I'll help you run it.
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tyraidbp
Oct 1, 2001, 5:13 PM
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One of the major decisions you need to make first is, what do you want to offer? And what do you need to offer inorder to make money? Sure you can have a monthly membership, which once you break it down, may not look to make money, but it does. My gym(soon to open in the Chicagoland area)will mainly just cater to climbers. It will be just like climbers want, a place to train for the outdoor season. All bouldering(not exactly what everyone wants)but no parties, no team building groups, no boyscouts, no problem customers. The daily fee will be $5, a monthly will be $30. When you do the math, with 40 monthly members at $30 per month, is $1200, that right there covers your rent completely. As long as you build something with thought, you will get the people. You cant just go out and build a multi-million dollar facility and expect people to pay for it. Do some research, and if any of you want, ask me, I will be more than willing to help you with anything.
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pianomahnn
Oct 1, 2001, 8:49 PM
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tyraid...you should get some of those awesome holds, what are they called, Nicros, I think.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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jds100
Oct 1, 2001, 9:20 PM
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Tyraid, if $1200 a month covers your rent, especially in or near Chicago, you are a very lucky person. Good luck on the gym, and let everyone know when it opens.
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c_plante
Oct 10, 2001, 8:02 AM
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I've been looking into opening a gym too, where do you find insurace?? I've called 3 places and 1 guy told me that climbing insurance policies were this rare as gold type of thing that was expensive as all get out. The other 2 places didn't even call back. Startup costs are nothing really, it's the damned insurance, and then of course there's city bylaws. My city has a bylaw for how big a sex shop can be, what colours you can paint a house or business, how tall your grass can be... How am I going to open a gym??
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downshift
Oct 11, 2001, 12:23 AM
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c_p
Build it face the consequences later.
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c_plante
Oct 11, 2001, 9:46 AM
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Hey hey downshift, I hope you read all the posts because we've got a lot of questions to answer before we get that gym off the ground.
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downshift
Oct 12, 2001, 3:15 AM
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C_P
When things slow down at work that when I'm going to start on a business plan to answer alot of the questions.
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clipngo
Nov 15, 2001, 5:01 AM
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I just checked out your pictures of the academy, Coach. Wanted to say Semper Fi!
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blackaven
Jan 5, 2002, 9:52 PM
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if you wanted to open a "climbers only" gym, I think the best way to do it would be to have a "BYOR" policy (Bring Your Own Rope)
Most people who aren't climbers don't have thier own climbing rope
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beyond_gravity
Jan 19, 2002, 12:16 AM
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blackaven, gym managers dont give a rats ass if there hard core climbers or 15 year old skanks there to get the hot climbing guys (me) If you make a BYOR policy, youre going to loose some seriouse business.
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paintinhaler
Jan 19, 2002, 12:42 AM
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I hope your not implying that 15 year olds are skanks and can't climb. I don't think you are. Because your cool. But if you did I would have a bone to pick with you.
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rippdclimber
Jan 19, 2002, 9:03 PM
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There clearly is a need for market research, but how does one go about such a thing? If I were to open a gym, a wet dream of mine, how would I determine my potential market and possible saturation?
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